JMortensen Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 So in truth none of the US automotive companies really design and build there own diesel motors, thank god for that!! Remember what site you're on and keep your anti big 3 bias to yourself. As far as the 1.9 diesels, they get the power by boosting the crap out of them. That's the nice thing about diesels, they run on detonation. So you can really run a buttload of boost without too much trouble, assuming the headgasket and bottom end stay together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Sure, it can get 35mpg with tons of power, but how does it drive off boost? There's a reason it gets 35mpg. Power takes fuel. That mpg figure tells me it's as guttless as any other commuter box until you put your foot deep into it. Nothing necessarly wrong with that though, if that's what you're going for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB280ZT Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Remember what site you're on and keep your anti big 3 bias to yourself. And just so you know I happen to like GM as almost all of my cars over the years came from them. I just happen to inherent the Datsun I have so that is why I am working with it, not to mention it is fun!! What I was saying is that the Big 3 as you put it have never built a diesel motor that was worth anything other then a boat anchor! I have looked for the site I saw the HP/torque information on the race prepared TDI motor but I can not find it anymore. I still think it would be a neet motor to put in a 510 or 240Z for a daily driver! HB280ZT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 What I was saying is that the Big 3 as you put it have never built a diesel motor that was worth anything other then a boat anchor! Fair enough. For what its worth, if GM bought 2% more of Isuzu, then they would have 51% ownership and they would therefore be building the Duramax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZROSSA Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Gm has sold its share in isuzu now. Guess it had some bad dept to cover! the turbo deisels i have driven have mostly been dogs off boost. With peak torque usually coming up at 1800 rpm it really wasnt a problem untill you have a big trailer or very large load. Once you have it moving your away again. I always found that i can drive a T.D. pretty hard and not lose to much economy. Petrol engine would drop to really low figs in similar situations. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 You're absolutely right. I guess I need to keep up on my GM news a bit better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest abram Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 honestly the whole reason i wanted to use a diesel is the ability to use biodiesel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davey1000 Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 The OM606 in my 1998 Mercedes-Benz E300 Turbodiesel has an amazingly flat torque curve from about 1800rpm to about 4500rpm, and makes 0-60mph in 8 seconds in a 4000-pound sedan. The inline-six is a very simple engine design, and would make an interesting swap. This also happens to be an all-aluminum engine, and the first DOHC turbodiesel in a production car. Above 1000rpm or so you can barely tell it's a diesel -- only a little clatter at idle. It's also very biofuel friendly. I have no idea what transmission options are out there other than the 5-speed auto box that came in the car. There might be a Euro manual available, but not in the States. Cheers, John Benzs are OK but I know of an accountant who needed a new engine after just over 2 years (bent conrod giving rough running, crank possibly twisted as well, theory being that it some how hydraulicked). Luckily as the bad running was complained about within the guarantee period the £10,000 ($20,000) engine came free. IMHO VM diesels are better (they have Carter-tunnel engine blocks). VMs to Rover spec have Mahle pistons (look up Mahle power-cell technology , its used in Cummins "Million Miles to Overhaul" engines). The latest VMs are DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder and use Bosch common rail fuelling (no jerk-pump) VM are now part of Detroit Diesel and the new V6 is going to be used in the Cadillac. Not sure which version but the turbo model puts out 300HP! It is very difficult to make a really good diesel engine and many designs are badly flawed. For example Perkins of England performed hydraulic tests on a rivals engine and discovered that a thin feeler gauge could be slipped between the block and the main bearing caps when pressure equivalent to maximum firing pressure was applied! Even VM made a faux-pas with their early DOHC models as the simplex timing chain needed replacing after 30,000 miles. Steyr of Austria make some interesting diesels that are used by the military, OK if you have a military budget. To get the weight of diesel engines down to acceptable levels high strength iron is needed for the block and FORGED cranks. Some French diesel cars regularly destroy the rubber in the crank damper so there must be excessive whip in the cranks. In the end the real test is how well do things work after 10 years. My 11 year old VM powered Rover uses no oil and will still do the makers guaranteed top speed (on the autobahn of course!) In Europe VWs 1.9TDi is very popular but the powerful model relies on a lot of electronics. Allegedly Skodas latest car using this engine gives 65mpg on the motorway. With fuel costing over $10 per gallon mpg is king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukegrad98 Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Benzs are OK but I know of an accountant who needed a new engine after just over 2 years (bent conrod giving rough running, crank possibly twisted as well, theory being that it some how hydraulicked). Sounds like he got unlucky. Almost undoubtedly this was the ill-fated 3.5-liter engine, commonly called "the rod-bender" online. It was Mercedes' greatest mistake in diesel engines, and the #1 reason not to own the W140 diesel, though no one is really sure how many engines were affected or whether a design change actually fixed them or not. Mercedes has been very tight-lipped about that unit. Nearly every other model I'm aware of has been bulletproof. I just talked to a guy this past week that has over 760,000 miles on his...without a rebuild. Cheers, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JohnnyC. Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I have actually contemplated swapping in a perkins 4 cyl in a Z. Sure, a bit on the heavy side, but if the engine is mounted back as far as possible in the engine bay, it may help accomodate the heavier weight by distributing it more evenly. If mated to a suitable gearbox, it could perform quite well. Plus, who says a turbocharger couldn't be added? Why not port and polish and lighten the crankshaft? It has worked for Gale Banks in producing Cummins engines for Dodge Rams that have exceed 300 mph. I had a friend that had one of the 5.7L Diesels (aka GM 350 modified for diesel) in his 80s buick. It wasn't gutless, nor was it a maker of impressive power, but it did get 30+ mpg and it was naturally aspirated. He plans on putting a turbo on it, to where it can actually make good power. Diesels dont have to be dogs...they just have to massaged into fine machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davey1000 Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I have been looking at the future G.M. diesel engines. They are going to put a v6 turbo diesel in the commodore next year. 2.9lt Around 250 hp and over 400 l/ft of torque. Sould be very nice. Almost as good as the german ones. Its going to be made by motor morordi (Spelling?) in Italy so not really a G.M. design. Looks like they will use this in the european spec cadillacs as well. New 4.5 lt twin turbo being put through its pases for the U.S light truck market as we speak. Should be a big improvement for you guys. Douglas No actually IMHO VM Motori engines are BETTER than the German ones, much better as the old HR 492 and HR 692 use Carter-Tunnel-Blocks. I have run VM powered Rover cars for years and years and am very pleased with them. Good for towing and guaranteed by Rover for 120mph. OK the 2.5 pushrod (no timing belt to snap) motor is not as rapid as the latest 1.9 Volkswagen product (but people are "chipping" these and screwing up the wastegates for extra power - probably illegally as they are unlikely to be telling their insurance company). Those latest VMs are overhead cam 4 valves per cylinder with common rail fuelling. Makes the GM 6.2 look like something from the stone age. As to screwing on turbos to NA engines NOT A GOOD IDEA. This is because the NA engine wont have oil spray cooled pistons and a heavy duty crankshaft. One only has to read a Perkins manual to find that a basically similar engine can have several different "flavours" of crankshaft with different nitriding or tuftriding depths, different strength bearing cap bolts etc. Seems that when they hop-up the power a lot of components needed to be uprated. Of course for those who are only interested in running 1/4 mile things are different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JohnnyC. Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Yes, it seems that American diesel seem to lag far behind their european counterparts when it comes to small diesels. Chysler has a nice 2.0L that they are putting in their Jeep J8 (their overseas small military vehicle) that put out quite nice numbers but alas, it is not for sale here in the states. And about turbocharging a NA engine, just like a gasoline engine, things will need to be uprated and upgraded. It just depends on the depth of one's pockets, and how much power one wants/needs (although we all know wants can become "needs" very quickly when one has an addiction for more power.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSD Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 If I were to take any Diesel, i'd be out of a VW/Audi.. and YES, the 1.9TDI can get 300+ WHP.. well over that amount in torque. No, you do NOT have to stomp the pedal in the floor to move, those cars pull Hard, trust me on that one. 1.9TDI swap is going in my jetta, i'll definetly be alot faster than my ZX. Go look on some Audi/VW forums.. Benz forums too. http://www.Vwvortex.com Theres a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JohnnyC. Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Hmm...yes, I had forgotten that might be a worthwhile and easier swap. Had a friend who owned a 95 ford powerstroke and he tried out a cousin's diesel bug with a five speed, he said he was quite impressed on how it could accelerate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 If I were to take any Diesel, i'd be out of a VW/Audi.. and YES, the 1.9TDI can get 300+ WHP.. well over that amount in torque. No, you do NOT have to stomp the pedal in the floor to move, those cars pull Hard, trust me on that one. 1.9TDI swap is going in my jetta, i'll definetly be alot faster than my ZX. Go look on some Audi/VW forums.. Benz forums too. http://www.Vwvortex.com Theres a good start. you obviously haven't driven a beemer Diesel lately .. it is FAR superior to any vw or audi diesel .. in Europe they have the benchmark diesels!! My 2.0 made a stock 235 rwhp (no boost upgrades just fuel remapping) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Mercedes Bluetec E320 is 200hp and 400ft pounds of torque. They are also sharing the technology with volkswagen who will be introducing models some time in 2008 using the technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Might be totally irrelevant to some, but 2010 they start smog testing diesel vehicles in CA. I'm assuming this is due to companies wanting to sell diesels in more common vehicles in the USA, so CA needs to start regulating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSD Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 you obviously haven't driven a beemer Diesel lately .. it is FAR superior to any vw or audi diesel .. in Europe they have the benchmark diesels!! My 2.0 made a stock 235 rwhp (no boost upgrades just fuel remapping) You are correct, I haven't.. but since VW parts (IMO) are alot easier to come by, and I enjoy VW's more, i'd prefer to stick with their parts and cars. I wouldn't say FAR superior.. beemers are more aimed at performance than VW/Audi is ( more towards VW ).. VW/Audi make a nice blend of performance/comfort/style/fuel economy for a good price.. where in my opinion.. BMW Makes a Better performance package/similar styling/not as good fuel economy.. and at quite a price..don't get me wrong, BMW's are sweet.. but VW did make a 140hp 2.0tdi that can easily go to 300HP.. and still get like 40mpg Atleast thats my thoughts.. So I guess go with whatever TDI engine you like! Not to mention.. you can interchange parts between VW/Audi/Volvo/porsche.. =] Plus, VW made the bugatti veyron! DUH!! Haha. *shrugs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukegrad98 Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Mercedes Bluetec E320 is 200hp and 400ft pounds of torque. They are also sharing the technology with volkswagen who will be introducing models some time in 2008 using the technology. Seems I heard several months ago that VW pulled out of the BlueTec consortium, because Benz was so far ahead -- the tag has basically become part of the Mercedes packaging, and VW wants to stick with its TDI badging for branding purposes. Whatever... Porsche is already calling all the shots over there anyway -- how much longer do you think they'll let Audi keep winning races? Cheers, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSD Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Seems I heard several months ago that VW pulled out of the BlueTec consortium, because Benz was so far ahead -- the tag has basically become part of the Mercedes packaging, and VW wants to stick with its TDI badging for branding purposes. Whatever... Porsche is already calling all the shots over there anyway -- how much longer do you think they'll let Audi keep winning races? Cheers, John Lol.. c'mon.. we all know they aren't LETTING Audi win!! Haha... really though.. and to You Frank, I just read your post.. and I think you meant to say the BMW 3.0L tdi? Because the 3.0 has 235HP.. the 2.0 did not.. and I can't remember ANY 2.0 that pumped out that kinda power tdi.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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