yo2001 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Well, I thought I had my brain wrapped around good on hooking up a 220v line to my work area for my new welder but now I'm not too sure so I'm going to ask question before it's too late. Here is what I got. Miller Syncrowave 200. It's rated at 54amp max. The minimal wiring requirements are 8AWG for two hots and also 8AWG for ground, no neutral. Max. distance for 8 AWG is at 125ft. I went to Lowe's got 50amp breaker, 50amp 3 prong receptacle, and 6/2 romex indoor with a ground rated at 55amp. The run from the breaker to the shop was 42-44ft. The question or a problem is that the ground on the wire that I got is only 10AWG not 8AWG. Is that going to be a problem? Should I go to Lowe's and buy 8AWG ground to replace the 10AWG? Another question is do I need to run the wires in the conduit? Thanks in advance. One more, My box seems to not have a ground block. I have few blocks on the bottom of the box that are all tied together as one unit. Some neutrals and some grounds all in one.... Hope to be making some cool z stuff soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Yo: You might want to check code - in my area, there needs to be a 25% safety factor in current (amp) capability on a circuit. On my MM175 w/ max draw of 19.4, I needed a 30 amp breaker and wiring. They had no broblem with that circuit running an air compressor and the welder...'course I rarely have them both on at the same time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 I have been reading about it on the Miller's forum and due to the low duty cycle (20%) during high output on the syncrowave 200, the 6AWG and 50amp is okay. However, didn't see anything about ground wire being 10AWG being okay. I don't know about the code. How do I go about finding that information? I also found the ground block being shared by neutral is fine as long as it's the main box. yay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Whenever I see discussions on forums about having to run special wiring for welders and heavy duty electronics... I'm glad to live in a 240 volt country. All I did to upgrade my electronics in the workshop for a welder was get a 20A circuit breaker off the electrician re-wiring the farm shed down the track, and swap the old 10A wire fuse for the circuit breaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I’m surprised you don’t need neutral. You really should check with local code. Even so, if the receptacle box is metal, you are going to have to make sure it is bonded. The ground wire will have to be attached to the box with a bonding screw. Why not just make a permanent sub panel in the work shop? If the breaker pops, you won’t have to run back to the house to turn it back on. Plus you could run other outlets in the shop for other things. Like grinder, lights, drills, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam280Z Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 IMO, you should use 6 gauge / 3 conductor romex. There will be 3 insulated wires: red, black, and white. There will be 1 uninsulated wire for the safety ground - size of the ground wire is not critical. I second the notion of putting in a subpanel. You will use the welder relatively infrequently as compared to other electrical devices, you can run a 20A 110 circuit for a couple of outlets. This is what I did for my Miller Synchrowave 180SD. I also ran a 30 Amp circuit out of the subpanel for my air compressor. I just switch it's breaker off when I switch on the welder breaker. I also recommend installing a service disconnect near the welder. Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 So if the size of the ground is not critical then running a 6/3 or extra 6 or 8 AWG for the ground worth the trouble? I didn't even think about putting in a subpanel. the shop (so called) is attached to the house and I had few empty slots on the main box, I figure I just run the wires back. I guess if I ever get my shop next door, I'll have a sub panel installed. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 The three wire system technically dose not have a ground when running 240 volt. So your gound/nutral in this case need to be as big as your hot legs. In 4 wire application the ground needs to be as big as all other conductors for safty sake. It may not be required, but here is why it is safe; When you have a fault on nutral, ground becomes your nutral. This way YOU do not become ground!!!! The better the ground the less tasty you look for the electrons to find there way back!!!! Also it needs to be in emt and that has to be grounded as well! Will you be installing your own sub panel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsk8ter Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 All the national electric code requires for a grounding conductor is a #10 awg solid or stranded for #6 awg. As stated above the grounding conductor is only for times of fault. It cannot see any power anyother times. 240 volt is what we call a ballanced load. As far as de rating or uping the wire size you dont need to do that unless you are running more then one welder. 6 awg is good for 50 amps your fine to run it. As far as the disance you can go into a huge detailed math problem or just figure go up one wire size for every 100' your fine. If you have any questions drop me a message I am a master electrician and Am more then willing to help you out (best I can over the net) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 btw this may help, most garages need a welder or a lift, sooner or later so youll more than likely need a 220 volt outlet (30-100amp) this wiring stuffs not hard to do, but use the correct gauge wire and the correct plugs and sockets for the application and ID strongly suggest useing a MINIMUM of 10ga wire for 110volt and 3/4" metalic conduit (use the correct single breaker rating for the application on the 110 volt) 110 v outlet end black/power to the gold screw white/neutral to the silver screw green/ground to the green screw 110v at the box black/power to breaker white/ neutral to neutral bar green/ ground to ground bar and 6GA-4 GA on the high amp 230 volt applications,like WELDERS, little 230volt stuff like compressors and lifts get along fine with (3 or 4) 10 ga wires (use the correct dual breaker rating for the application on the 220 volt) 220v at the outlet red feed to one hot black feed to one hot green to ground on plug (optional but HIGHLY RECOMENDED) second green to the conduit ground screw 220v at the box red to one side of DUAL breaker black to one side of DUAL breaker green/ ground to ground bar optional green/ ground to ground bar LINKS THAT MAY HELP http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/home-wiring-usa/ http://www.mlec.com/Homeown.htm http://www.passandseymour.com/pdf/U077.pdf http://techpubs.sgi.com/library/tpl/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi/0650/bks/SGI_Admin/books/OrOn2_SitePrep/sgi_html/apb.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted September 15, 2008 Author Share Posted September 15, 2008 All the national electric code requires for a grounding conductor is a #10 awg solid or stranded for #6 awg. As stated above the grounding conductor is only for times of fault. It cannot see any power anyother times. 240 volt is what we call a ballanced load. As far as de rating or uping the wire size you dont need to do that unless you are running more then one welder. 6 awg is good for 50 amps your fine to run it. As far as the disance you can go into a huge detailed math problem or just figure go up one wire size for every 100' your fine. If you have any questions drop me a message I am a master electrician and Am more then willing to help you out (best I can over the net) Doh, I just reran stranded 6AWG for the ground. Well, I guess I'm well equip for just incase situation. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsk8ter Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Doh, I just reran stranded 6AWG for the ground. Well, I guess I'm well equip for just incase situation. Thanks uverkill on the ground is not a bad thing not bad at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Yea, power will find its ground, just hopefully not through YOU! Over kill on safty in this regard is neccesity. Rdsk8, is the code 60 or 70% of complete load for any given circuit? I know the "extra" is for initial start up and heat dissapation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsk8ter Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Yea, power will find its ground, just hopefully not through YOU! Over kill on safty in this regard is neccesity. Rdsk8, is the code 60 or 70% of complete load for any given circuit? I know the "extra" is for initial start up and heat dissapation. for equipment you use chart 250.122 it goes off your overcurrent protective device I dont beleive there is set % on the equipment I know there is on service entrance and feeders but equipment falls under diffrent rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.