a well thought thru combo

[grumpyvette]

Dart Block 9" deck

JE pistons 4.155 bore, 1.125 comp height

Scat 44lb light weight crank 3.750 stroke

Scat H beam rods 6.0

10.3 to 10.5 comp ratio, with the 70cc heads

AFR 210cc heads

8 qt baffeled oil pan

milodon windage screen

http://www.airflowresearch.com/210sbc_rh.php

 

crane Roller hyd

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=119841&lvl=2&prt=5'>http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=119841&lvl=2&prt=5

1.6 rockers

EDELBROCK RPM AIR GAP intake

750 speed demon carb

 

 

its a street strip combo and you want to run high test Id suggest a cpr in the 10.0-10.3:1 range with that 119841 crane cam,a quench distance of about .040-.044 max, and Id watch the ignition curve A/F ratio and coolant temps, you should be fine as long as its slightly rich on the a/f ratio (12.7-13.7:1) and the coolant temps kept in the 170F-180F range most of the time, be aware that an oil cooler helps, reduce the tendency to get into detonation, as piston and valve temps are also controlled and stabilized to some degree thru high flow rates of oil thats kept preferably in the 215F-220F range maximum and a high capacity baffled oil pan with ideally a windage screen to strip excess oil off the rotating assembly, yes youll need to watch the sparkplug condition and header temps for info on the combustion chamber temps but you should have a nice combo when its done, yes ID run the 1.6:1 roller rocker but your effective lift will be approaching .595 so check all clearances in the engine carefully and make sure the valve spring load rates and clearances and valve train geometry is ok before starting it up, Id sure want a .100 valve to piston clearance minimum, and a valve max lift in the .650-.680 range if possiable

Id suggest 1 3/4" dia. & 38" long primairys and a 19" long 3" dia collector on the headers

don,t look to exceed 6300rpm and you should see a decent torque curve that will make a light car in the 2600lb-3000lb range scoot nicely with a manual trans and a 3.73-3.90 rear gear ratio

keep in mind the idea is NOT PEAK hp but a responsive combo with instant killer tq, that pulls hard over a wide rpm band!

 

IS THERE ANYONE HERE THAT CAM POST A DD 2000 results on the combo??

 

Please keep us posted on the projects progress and your results,IF YOU BUILD THIS, pictures are always appreciated, and (HINT)verify those spring load rates, install heights,dia,clearances etc and clearance issues with BOTH crane and AIR FLOW RESEARCH when ordering parts,pushrod lengths and valve train geometry will naturally need to be checked and verified durring assembly.

 

http://www.racingsprings.com/beehivesprings.htm

 

http://www.racingsprings.com/PDF/beehive.pdf

 

http://www.ferrea.com/

 

http://www.ferrea.com/general-results.php?company_id=100631&category_id=6038

 

beehive springs allow a smaller dia and lighter weight retainer and give greater rocker to retainer clearance, and you might want longer valves to keep the geometry correct with the extra tall valve spring installed height that MIGHT be necessary

 

(I usually have guys order from these suppliers)or at least get the parts special ordered from summitracing or jegs if I build the heads up custom)

 

ID order from these guys(but have a long talk with CRANE and AIR FLOW RESEARCH tech guys)

 

http://www.dougherbert.com/

 

http://www.summitracing.com/

 

http://www.jegs.com/?sendroicid=1B2A8F2F-B67C-4565-BCCE-C050BEADB5CD&sendroiad=2899439139&sendroikwd=jegs+EXACT&gclid=CNLmhvus4ZUCFQ60Hgody3ZkWw

 

http://www.ohiocrank.com/

 

http://www.lewisracingengines.com/

 

http://www.cranecams.com/

[Xander]

there you go.

[Challenger]

And you deny being a computer....

 

Good info.

[grumpyvette]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

 

but could you PLEASE change the input, thats a HYDROLIC ROLLER CAM, , and large tube headers with mufflers matches better, THANKS

IVE got to learn how to post those pictures of software predicted power curves

[Xander]

This is how you post the picture on a windows computer.

 

Have dyno2000 on the screen and press PrtSc on your keyboard. This coppies the current screen on your monitor to the windows clipboard.

 

Open MS paint. It's somewhere in you Start menu under programs/accessories.

 

when you have opened MS paint the only thing I do is press ctrl+v. this pastes the picture from the clipboard into the paint program. You then save the picture somewhere on your hardrive. In this case I named the picture "grumpycombo".

 

There are two routes you can take to get the picture onto hybridz. Attached to a post like I did above. There is a button underneath the message screen "where you type your message" called "manage attachments" here you can select the picture you saved on your computer and it will appear under you post.

 

another way is to upload the picture to your album here on hybridz and then link to the picture inside your post. This will make the picture appear inside your post. you can do this by typing . You can get the exact link location by going to your album open the picture you want and click on it with your right button. select "copy image location". This will copy the location of the image to the windows clipboard. If you paste this location right in between it will appear in the post.

 

[(goldfish)]

Alt + print screen will capture only the window you have the focus on. e.g. dyno 2000.

[Dat260]

Hi Grumppyvette,

I'am doing a lot of reading regarding Gen 1 V8 and I found this thread. I search your parts and found that a Dart block w/9" deck is about 5K dollars. It's too expensive for me. My question is can I use any SBC four bolt main block with a 9" deck? My application will be for my Datsun and it will be mainly street driven and occasional "recreational" racing.

Regards,

[pparaska]

That's a really nice combo, but I'm a little biased:

 

Interestingly, that combo is close to what I'm running. I'm using 215cc Canfield heads (flow numbers are similar and can be seen here: http://alteredz.com/data/canf215flow_1_data.htm) and a solid roller cam (Cam Motion 251/251@.050, 281/281@.020, 105 LSA, 0.555 lift with 1.52 rockers) and DD2000 shows very similar results. My cam is not as optimal adn the crane one is, IMO, the 105 LSA mine has causes quite a bit of overlap and it doesn't come on the cam until 2500-3000 rpm or so.

 

It makes enough torque and HP to make my Z stick right with a Ford GT in a drag race from a rolling start (coming out of the Oak Tree turn at VIR this past July).

 

I have a Dart Sportsman block 9.025"and it was $1800. I had it decked to 9" to get the quench down to .040"

[grumpyvette]

Hi Grumppyvette,

I doing alot of reading regarding Gen 1 V8 and I found this thread. I search your parts and found that a Dart block w/9" deck is about 5K dollars. It's too expensive for me. My question is can I use any SBC four bolt main block with a 9" deck? My application will be for my Datsun and it will be mainly street driven and occasional "recreational" racing.

Regards,

 

 

SURE you can use a chevy 400 block, it just won,t be as strong, and once you get the machine work done it will probably cost almost what the dart block costs ($1500)

 

BTW theres lots cheaper dart blocks than $5k

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DRT%2D31161211&N=700+115&autoview=sku

 

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=47

keep in mind the object of the combo is NOT peak hp, its responcive and instant tire smoking torque, in a street driven sbc combo

[rsicard]

Grumpvette:

 

I am building a SBC with ported Vortec Heads. I have stamped steel 1.6 rocker arms and want to install ARP rocker studs. At present it has the factory pressed-in studs that measure 1.35" above the stock stud boss. I need to install guideplates as the rocker arms are non-self-centering. Would it be better to use the raised guideplates or the straight ones? As best as I can determine from the internet, the guideplates are .110" thick. If I use ARP rocker studs which are 1.75" from top to face of stud boss, then I should mill 1.75" less 1.35" which is .400" plus .110" for a total of .510" off the boss? Does this appear correct to you? I may have to increase the amount milled off the boss as the threaded portion of the stock stud is LONGER than the ARP threaded portion of their stud. Should this milling be done by a milling machine, with head fixture, or can it be done by myself with a 1/2" hand drill and the appropriate CompCams tool? Your thoughts and advice on these aspects please. Thanks.

[ZZZeee]

What's the LSA on that cam?

[dr_hunt]

112 degrees

[Dat260]

SURE you can use a chevy 400 block, it just won,t be as strong, and once you get the machine work done it will probably cost almost what the dart block costs ($1500)

 

BTW theres lots cheaper dart blocks than $5k

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DRT%2D31161211&N=700+115&autoview=sku

 

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=47

keep in mind the object of the combo is NOT peak hp, its responcive and instant tire smoking torque, in a street driven sbc combo

 

Maybe the 5k was for a complete engine, my bad. Thank you for clarifying this.

I hopes this thread stays alive I want to learn more about building a strong and well balanced engine.

[ZZZeee]

112 degrees

 

Where did you find that? I didn't see it anywhere in the specs.

[grumpyvette]

Grumpvette:

 

I am building a SBC with ported Vortec Heads. I have stamped steel 1.6 rocker arms and want to install ARP rocker studs. At present it has the factory pressed-in studs that measure 1.35" above the stock stud boss. I need to install guideplates as the rocker arms are non-self-centering. Would it be better to use the raised guideplates or the straight ones? As best as I can determine from the internet, the guideplates are .110" thick. If I use ARP rocker studs which are 1.75" from top to face of stud boss, then I should mill 1.75" less 1.35" which is .400" plus .110" for a total of .510" off the boss? Does this appear correct to you? I may have to increase the amount milled off the boss as the threaded portion of the stock stud is LONGER than the ARP threaded portion of their stud. Should this milling be done by a milling machine, with head fixture, or can it be done by myself with a 1/2" hand drill and the appropriate CompCams tool? Your thoughts and advice on these aspects please. Thanks.

 

OK first, stop getting worried crazy, this is a very common job at good machine shops,they do all the time. You just hand them the ARP studs and THEY mill the heads and thread the holes and install the guide plates and studs, usually for well under $100, if you supply the studs and guide plates.(or you can let them supply the guide plates)

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ISK%2D200%2DAGP&autoview=sku

 

these are great because they allow you to adjust the pushrod alignment

 

Next, the height or length of the studs above the milled surface the guide plates are clamped against is almost not a critical issue as the guide plate location vertically on the pushrods has a good deal of allowable variation and ARP studs are DESIGNED to extend up further because they ASSUME that many guys will use a set of roller rockers with jam nuts and a rocker stud girdle which requires the extended height.

MOST valve covers have more than enought extra clearance.

[grumpyvette]

Where did you find that? I didn't see it anywhere in the specs.

 

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=119841&lvl=2&prt=5

 

107+117=224/2=112

[rsicard]

Grumpyvette:

 

The reason for the concern is that I would like to install the ARP rocker studs myself. I have the CompCams tools to mill the boss and the tap to thread the holes. I need to know if this can be done with a 1/2" hand drill. I will purchase the drill/tap alignment tool from SummitRacing to keep the drill and tap in alignment when drilling/threading the holes. Next I want to decrease the height of the cast-in valve guide/boss. I have the .530 guide machining tool from Powerhouse tools and just received the spring seat machining tool from them also, which I tried to cancel, BUT it reduces the lower portion of the cast in boss down to .630" which is NOT what I need as the lower portion of the valve guide/boss does a nice job of locating the Crane H-11 tool steel spring that I purchased which are a drop-in replacement for the Vortec Springs. The height of the valve guides has to be reduced to accomodate the LT4 Hot Cam that is going into this engine to achieve .525 valve lift.

 

Your further comments would be appreciated

[grumpyvette]

http://www.goodson.com/

 

these guys have a help line that I use on occasion that might help

 

PERSONALLY I would NOT think of doing it without a decent DRILL PRESS ,that had a depth control at a MINIMUM,and a milling machine with a screw feed table vice would be VASTLY prefered and I certainly would NOT attempt it with a hand held drill,and a way to hold the head and move it in a solid rest with little or no varance between the differant cylinders on angle or depth.

 

THATS ONE REASON IM LOOKING INTO FINDING A USED MILLING MACHINE or thinking about one of these, yeah! I know cheap chinese tools, but Im not using them constantly and can take my time and although ID rather find a decent CINCINATI or BRIDGEPORT,or similar AMERICAN machine IVE yet to find a decent deal.

 

http://www.grizzly.com/products/g6760

 

http://www.grizzly.com/products/g3617

 

http://www.grizzly.com/products/g3616

 

LOOKING AT THESE FOR THE SHOP......COMMENTS , COMPARING THEM OR OPTIONS and sources of used milling machines are WELCOME

[(goldfish)]

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHM

 

I'm not sure where they are made, but my dad's is basically 3/4 bridgeport and has held up very well so far. 10+ yrs.

[Dat260]

Hi guys,

I'am in the process of pricing all the parts from Grumpys suggestion above for a strong, reliable and fast engine. The total is at about 8k and I'am still missing parts. My question is, any of these Bowtie familly block a good substitute for a Dart block? Which one would it be? I want to be able to spec the block according to the first thread above.

ps; Grumpy, your site is awsome!

Cheers,

bowtie spec.pdf