Air-conditioned Intercooler...is this possible?

[ktm]

There is a far easier way to cool the intake charge.

[240hoke]

Never blown out a candle sitting behind a beer bottle? Same effect utilized here.

 

The flow actually loops around and goes in the opposite direction, forming vortices behind the tube! So yea it loops around and blows out the candle...still bad for the i/c. This is all dependent on the velocity though.... but this is totally off topic.

[Tony D]

The thermodynamics argument only applies in steady-state full load operation.

When you have periods of need, and periods of low power usage, the termal mass can be used.

 

Your FUEL consumption goes up because you are using more HP during non-peak times, but during the short periods on-boost where you would reap the benefits of the refrigerated intercooler, your power then at that moment would be higher due to density increases.

 

This is the same functioning as an alternator and a battery at a drag strip. Guys shut off their ALTERNATOR during the run, and run on their battery.

 

Same can happen with a system like this, run on the accumulator for those short boosted periods.

 

For longer runs like Bonneville, it's practically full load the whole time, so then you have to weigh out the losses against what gains you get from density. In October World Finals running at 50 degrees at altitude, probably not much to be gained. Running at Speed Week in August at 110+? Hmmm, having 50 degree air in the intake would be nice...

[Chemicalblue]

try this http://www.designengineering.com/products.asp?m=sc&cid=1

[rdsk8ter]

try this http://www.designengineering.com/products.asp?m=sc&cid=1

curious has anyone seen one of these in person? Looks like you could make your own fairly easy out of of some copper line and a t fitting with a bunch of 1/64th holes. im assuming that it has holes in it right?

[TimZ]

http://www.coolflow.com/intracooler/intercooler.htm

[HowlerMonkey]

I never knew why guys would shut off the alternator on a run when you can just make sure the battery is fully charged before the run.

 

If battery is fully charged, you won't be using hp to keep it that way.

 

This allows your ignition coil to start with 13.8. to 14.1 volts rather than 12.6 volts it would see with no alternator.

 

That 1.2 volts can mean a lot to people with certain configurations.

[hughdogz]

...This allows your ignition coil to start with 13.8. to 14.1 volts rather than 12.6 volts it would see with no alternator.

 

I'm not trying to be a smart a$$, but how does your coil start at 13.8-14.1 volts if the alternator is not spinning yet?

 

That 1.2 volts can mean a lot to people with certain configurations.

Voltage compensation is available on some EMS' (i.e. for injector opening times, etc.)

[TimZ]

I'm not trying to be a smart a$$, but how does your coil start at 13.8-14.1 volts if the alternator is not spinning yet?

 

I believe he's saying to leave the alternator "on" and make sure that the battery has a full charge before you start. It doesn't take much current (i.e., negligible load) to keep a fully charged battery at 13.8 volts, and it's much easier to be consistent with a constant supply voltage

[hughdogz]

Ahh...I see what HowlerMonkey is saying now. Thanks Timz

 

I've been wondering about this as well. I think you could use an idler pulley / sheave as a "quick disconnect" of the belt (or else use a turnbuckle tensioner) to disable the alternator before starting. Another way could be to have one of those circuit "keys" to cut off the charge wire after starting...

 

I guess it all comes down to how much energy (Joules, etc.) your coil(s), injectors, headlights, etc. draw and the alternator efficiency. You guys are probably right that it is a negligible draw on the HP to run an alternator.

[zgeezer]

Mount your intercooler with quick release fasteners on the mounting itself and the pumbing. Buy ten identical intercoolers. Before your drag racing day, submerge the each in water making sure you don't get any water inside the unit. Freeze them into a solid block of ice.

 

At the track, swap to a new frozen block of ice cooler before each run. You'll probably need a diaper under the cooler to keep from dripping on the track.

 

That would probably be easier and less expensive then making the refirdgeration unit you're describing above

 

Actually, I think something very similar to this has been done for lakes/bonneville top end cars. The IC unit is isolated in a tank filled with ice. At the end of the run, the now melted/hot water is drained and the tank is repacked with ice for the next run. It is a h20 cooled IC.

 

Any top enders out there that have more information?

 

g

[tannji]

This would only be practical for brief bursts, like the 1/4 mile, but has anyone ever played with Liquid Air? I have access to it at a reasonable price, and it seems to me that it could be plumbed easily to the low pressure side of an intake, and controlled like a alky mist system. Instant ice cold air, and this would probably combat heat soak more efficiently and possibly faster than any of the other options. Is it possible that this would be too cold? Ice inside the intake might not be a good thing....

[zgeezer]

Actually, I think something very similar to this has been done for lakes/bonneville top end cars. The IC unit is isolated in a tank filled with ice. At the end of the run, the now melted/hot water is drained and the tank is repacked with ice for the next run. It is a h20 cooled IC.

 

Any top enders out there that have more information?

 

g

 

Actually it was Banks top end pickup with a cold water reservoir in the bed. Used marine water cooled ICs to make this diesel fly. Here's a paragraph out of Bank's home site:

 

Intercooling also provides other benefits. For supercharged or turbocharged gasoline engines, reducing the intake air temperature suppresses detonation, just as it does for normally-aspirated gasoline engines. For diesel engines, intercooling not only increases charge density, it also results in lower exhaust gas temperature. Excessive exhaust gas temperature, above 1300º cannot be sustained in a diesel without eventual engine and/or turbocharger failure. Lowering intake temperature results in an almost equal reduction in exhaust temperature. For example, the air exiting the turbocharger on the Banks Sidewinder pickup was approximately 500º F. under full power. Dual air-to-water marine intercoolers, connected to a reservoir of ice water, were then used to reduce the air temperature to 100º F. before it entered the engine. With the intercooling, exhaust temperatures remained manageable for the duration of the Bonneville World Speed Record runs. Without intercooling, the exhaust temps would have been in the 1800º-1900º F. range.

[Tony D]

I never knew why guys would shut off the alternator on a run when you can just make sure the battery is fully charged before the run.

 

An MSD Six box can pull 20 Amps. A 7 Box or the pro systems can draw even more. That is enough draw on an alternator in a competitive class to kill your chances in heads-up competition. Hence running the alternator cutout switch, or loosening the belt to let is start slipping at the top end of the track to allow running on only the battery and hope it doesn't cause too much of a miss...

 

Sure, run your battery fully charged. But in some instances this isn't enough...hence the 16/12v dual-voltage batteries. The battery is drawn down during the run, requiring a higher initial voltage.

 

And the comments are correct, with a lead-acid battery, it is not possible with a conventional six-cell configuration to generate anything more than 13.8 at the start. When you draw from it, it immediately starts drawing down and affecting things... See above comments about dual-circuit batteries.

 

Then again, real racers run magnetos, right?

 

*******************************************************

 

As for ice chest intercoolers, yes, for dedicated LSR Turbo Cars that is more common than a FMIC. It helps with traction, and in some cases helps with plumbing as the turbo can blow backwards towards the cabin of the car where the water tank is, instead of going to a severely restricted front end (which is ideally restricted from letting in anything but the minimum necessary airflow anyway).

 

If you take a look at Oz's setup in his 280ZXT, you will see such a setup. No FMIC there! And when our 280ZXT is prepped, we have a legal radiator duct from a Euro-Market Car that channels all air directly to the radiator instead of generally all over under the front of the car...our intercooler will be in the passenger's compartment, and will be of the ice/water style for the above mentioned reasons.

[letitsnow]

I never knew why guys would shut off the alternator on a run when you can just make sure the battery is fully charged before the run.

 

If battery is fully charged, you won't be using hp to keep it that way.

 

This allows your ignition coil to start with 13.8. to 14.1 volts rather than 12.6 volts it would see with no alternator.

 

That 1.2 volts can mean a lot to people with certain configurations.

 

I picked up a solid 1-1.5 mph at the drag strip with a low 12 car by unplugging the alternator. It was a carb'd chevy with an msd 6al.

[Nigel]

Mount your intercooler with quick release fasteners on the mounting itself and the pumbing. Buy ten identical intercoolers. Before your drag racing day, submerge the each in water making sure you don't get any water inside the unit. Freeze them into a solid block of ice.

 

At the track, swap to a new frozen block of ice cooler before each run. You'll probably need a diaper under the cooler to keep from dripping on the track.

 

That would probably be easier and less expensive then making the refirdgeration unit you're describing above

 

If you used wax instead of frozen water, you could avoid having to swap intercoolers. I posted about this a while back, but I don't know if anybody paid attention to it at the time...

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=84602

 

BTW: the article I referenced in the linked thread does appear to be available in full right now

 

 

Nigel