FricFrac Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I've been thrilled with my '72 240Z in almost every regard. Although I have a 370Z and the technology is so much more advanced the 240Z is an amazing car. It’s raw and exciting to drive. Well it’s amazing except for the candle in front of the reflector that we call "headlights". The car is all but undriveable at night with the current set up. I did a little digging and found out (as is common knowledge of course) that the power is routed through the column switch and by the time it gets through the 38 year old wiring its not uncommon to get 10V or less at the light. I was going to do the relay conversion and I picked up a nice set of glass/aluminum lenses to convert to H4 as well. Then I started looking at HID conversion and all the mods people had done picking stuff up from the wreakers, etc. A lot of work and money for something that may not work in the end. One of the guys at the local auto parts dealer told me about the Alumina H4 HID kit. The ballast was designed by Phillips and the whole kit is very well made. I bought mine locally but I found the kit available here -> http://www.oxygensensor.net/alumina.html - the Alumina HID Part No. ALU-H4BXK6 Bi-Xenon Kit. The kit includes a wiring harness with what looks like a solid state relay so power is no longer routed through your column switch. You no longer need to build or purchase a relay system for the headlights as the HID kit includes that as well. The Bi-Xenon refers to system working as a high/low beam rather than a fixed beam (ala Xenon rather than Bi-Xenon). That should be taken into consideration when looking at the overall cost of the system. I believe a good relay kit alone is around $150. There are a few reasons you should consider this upgrade. 1. Safety - if you don't already have an upgraded lighting system you are greatly reducing your visibility at night. The stock system without any relay upgrades is all but useless. Upgraded sealed beams are usable but weak. H4 is decent but HID is far superior to even the H4 halogen system. 2. Electrical Draw - your stock 40A (or more if you are running this in a ZX) alternator is fairly taxed with the addition of any extra electrical systems as well as extra draw from old wiring and connectors. Adding a relay kit will reduce the strain on the system but sealed beams draw 50/60W and halogens are 55/65W or even 90/100W. Running HID draws only 35W - almost halving your power consumption. (Don't forget using LED lighting will also greatly reduce your current draw - my 10W festoon bulb is replaced with a 9 LED light I made up that draws 0.3W and is WAY brighter). The conversion is very straight forward but here are a few tips. - Remove the headlight buckets from the inside wheel wells (ok that design stinks but I'm sure that engineer is retired by now I took the stock harness that goes through the headlight bucket out. You can remove the pins from the connector with a small slotted screw driver, etc rather than cutting the wires off to get it through the grommet. - Once the headlight buckets and harness are removed I cut the old grommet out and used a stepped drill bit to drill the hole big enough to get a new grommet that was big enough to let the new H4 HID harness to pass through the headlight bucket. I didn't bother water proofing the bucket as the H4 lens and the H4 HID bulb/harness are water tight. The grommet is there to protect the cable passing through rather than water proofing. The new H4 HID bulb is placed in the new H4 Lens assembly and the H4 Lens assembly is mounted in the bucked just like the original sealed beams. Since there isn't much heat produced with the HID you might be able to get away with the cheap plastic lens/plastic reflector but I personally would rather use the glass/aluminum reflector which is the most robust. - After your lenses are mounted back in the vehicle you need to mount the ballast. The nice thing about this kit is the ballast is very small in comparison to the cheaper versions - you get what you pay for! I mounted mine in front of the radiator with Goop adhesive so they can be removed if needed - otherwise they are on permanently. All the cabling is tied back with zap straps to keep everything in place and neat and tidy. I used a small hole in the rad mount to mount the relay. One of the harnesses that plugged on the back of the sealed beam and ran through the headlight bucket that I had removed previously was plugged back into the wiring loom and the other end plugs directly into the new wiring harness for the H4 HID - simple! Only one is required and this is what controls the relay from the steering column switch but routes power directly from the battery which leads me to… - Power for the system. I'm an Electronics Eng so while I'm learning the mechanics I've got a good handle on the electronics. One of the first things I did was to build a star ground for the car for the engine bay (in general - not specifically for the HID conversion). I added a fuse panel in the engine bay with six circuits for additional upgrades. One of the circuits is for power to the HID kit. Power goes from the positive side of the battery through the fuse panel then to the wiring harness of the HID kit (that's the +12V side). The kit wiring harness has lug terminals to attach ground nearby each ballast to the body for ground. I found an appropriate grounding point on the chassis but I also ran two ground wires directly from the star ground point to each of these body grounding points with a heavy 10 gauge wire. Overkill but I don't have to worry about grounding issues. That's really all it takes to bring your lighting up to the same technology as a new car. Now my 240Z is just as enjoyable to drive at night as it is during the day. Not only that but I'm also reducing the strain on my old wiring system and my column switch and alternator. Win/Win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboHLS30 Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Do you have any pics????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I'm not really sure what to think of this post and information. Some pic's would definitely add some credibility. The web site listed seems a little vague as well, without much specific information or pic's. No contact information on the web site either, other than email. Are you in any way connected with this company or the web site listed in your post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FricFrac Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 I'm not really sure what to think of this post and information. Some pic's would definitely add some credibility. The web site listed seems a little vague as well, without much specific information or pic's. No contact information on the web site either, other than email. Are you in any way connected with this company or the web site listed in your post? Uh no I'm connected to fellow Z enthusiest who want to get the most out of their vehicles. I figured since HybridZ was about increasing the performance of our Z's this would be an appropriate place to post what I though was valuable information to the community. Personally I like to be able to see at night and I figured most other Z enthusiest would as well. Who cares if your car makes 750 WHP and you've got 6 piston 17" disk brakes if you can't see 50 feet in front of you.... The link I posted was the cheapest place I googled for the kit. As I mentioned in the thread I bought mine locally. I have absolutely no vested intrest in the company listed - just thought it was helpful to have a link. I bought mine at Lordco which is a local automotive parts company. The buckets are a PITA to get out but when I have some free time I'll take some pics to make it a little easier to follow. 99% of people should be able to follow the description as the only real mod is pulling the harness and grommet out of the bucket and drilling the bucket out for a new grommet so the water proof connectors fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoov100 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 the problem with HID's are, they arent very efficient without projectors. You would also just be blinding everyone running HID's through normal 7" housings. Ontop of that the buckets are easy to get out, If i can do it on the side of the road at 3 am with a pair of small pliers and a multi-tool and no flashlight, then it should be a problem for anyone doing it at their house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I have a feeling this is another "HID" kit that just makes it where you retrofit a hid bulb into a 7" H4 eBay type globe... I see no mention of real HID projector housings to go with those kits in that link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langfordchuck Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Thanks for the info! Good to see another victoria person on this site Good write up, even though i already bought Dave's headlight harness upgrade and new bulbs, so too late to change my alleged mind. will look out for your 240 in town: will recognize you by the bright headlights..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens1088 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramerbuccs24 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I have a feeling this is another "HID" kit that just makes it where you retrofit a hid bulb into a 7" H4 eBay type globe... I see no mention of real HID projector housings to go with those kits in that link. ^what them said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens1088 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Are these just HID's in H4 housings or similar to the headlights I am making/designing? http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=1074851#post1074851 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FricFrac Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 the problem with HID's are, they aren't very efficient without projectors. You would also just be blinding everyone running HID's through normal 7" housings. Ontop of that the buckets are easy to get out, If i can do it on the side of the road at 3 am with a pair of small pliers and a multi-tool and no flashlight, then it should be a problem for anyone doing it at their house. Hov100 sorry bout that's just wrong. HID's are very efficient - much more efficient than sealed beams or Halogens. What you might be thinking is that without projectors the beam from a bulb (and its any bulb - H4 halogen or HID) in a H4 replacement lens may scatter. The scatter has to do with the design of the reflector and its focal point, etc - nothing to do with not using a projector. You could have a cheap projector with a poorly designed focal point that would scatter as well. That is the reason why I think you get what you pay for with a cheap H4 lens. I personally used the Vision-X VX-7HD lens (and I mention that at the risk of being accused of being the president of the Vision-X company selling my wares...). The upper cut off on these are very sharp which helps to keep the light from blinding oncoming traffic. This is important because the way the Bi-Xenon bulb works in the H4 format is the bulb is a single arc that produces an intense light (while only consuming 35W of power). The bulb has a solenoid that pulls the bulb in our out to produce a high or low beam. On a conventional headlight system there is a more intense light on high beam. With the HID the beam is the same intensity but the beam height is controlled to keep the light out of the oncoming driver's vision. With the lens I used the beam height is tightly controlled as well as the beam spread (left to right) as well. As for your ability to change the buckets at 3 AM on the side of the road - good for you. Unfortunately my lifestyle doesn't provide me with the luxury of driving around at 3 AM. I'm busy taking care of kids who's parents are unable to care for them or helping friends move, etc. Once I do have some free time I'll take the buckets out for some pictures. I have a feeling this is another "HID" kit that just makes it where you retrofit a hid bulb into a 7" H4 eBay type globe...I see no mention of real HID projector housings to go with those kits in that link. Feeling? I mentioned several times in the original that the set up is a H4 lens and a HID H4 bulb kit. Most people are ready to jump on people for not searching - isn't not reading the post and asking an answered question the same offense? There is no mention of a "real" HID projector housing because one isn't used. A lens bends the light to a focal point as does a reflector. You are inferring that the reflector is inferior to a lens and that's simply not true - both provide a means of focusing the light. The lens I've used provides a sharp cut off for beam height and width protecting oncoming traffic from being blinded. Regardless a lens needs a reflector behind it anyhow to "project" the light otherwise that light traveling away from the lens is mostly absorbed making it less efficient. Are these just HID's in H4 housings or similar to the headlights I am making/designing?http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=1074851#post1074851 Again these are "just" high quality HID's in a quality H4 housing. Don't get me wrong - I don't have anything against projectors - I love how they look. I just don't want people to think that a reflector is inferior to a projector. The problem with a projector is that they are difficult/expensive to get and for me the best performance for the $$ was the H4 lens. There are tons of different ones and if you get yours locally if it doesn't work for you then you can take it back and try a different style. I would stay away from the cheap plastic lens/plastic reflector as they are typically cheaply made and poorly designed. I like where you are going on your posted thread because its hard to find a good projector if there isn't anything available at the local wreaking yard can be difficult. Its also hard to replicate something that someone else has done. Personally I'm looking to build a custom headlight for a friend's 240Z with projectors and a custom headlight bucket but finding parts are challenging. Keep up the good work on this front - I'm watching to see what happens with this. I don't mean to come across harshly but from most of the comments slagging the set up I'm a little defensive. I want to provide people with a repeatable quality set up that is as cost effective as I could find. I know there are a LOT of low quality HID kits out there and I was very happy with the one I found and I'm just passing that little tidbit of info along to my fellow Z car enthusiast. You can use whatever you want - its your money. There are also a lot of low quality H4 lenses out there as well. Shop locally if you don't know where to find a good one then you can take it back if it doesn't work out. I hate spending money on something that only works half way or not at all. For me this was money well spent and I feel I got the best bang for my buck with this set up. If you like the looks of a projector and doing a custom set up then go down that road and post your results but don't infer or assume that the projectors are superior. Until someone like Bens1088 can provide the end user with a quality product its difficult to reproduce some of the HID setups. This setup is easily reproduced and you know what you are paying, what you are getting out of it and the benefits that comes along with switching to HID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoov100 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Hov100 sorry bout that's just wrong. HID's are very efficient - much more efficient than sealed beams or Halogens. What you might be thinking is that without projectors the beam from a bulb (and its any bulb - H4 halogen or HID) in a H4 replacement lens may scatter. The scatter has to do with the design of the reflector and its focal point, etc - nothing to do with not using a projector. You could have a cheap projector with a poorly designed focal point that would scatter as well. That is the reason why I think you get what you pay for with a cheap H4 lens. I personally used the Vision-X VX-7HD lens (and I mention that at the risk of being accused of being the president of the Vision-X company selling my wares...). The upper cut off on these are very sharp which helps to keep the light from blinding oncoming traffic. This is important because the way the Bi-Xenon bulb works in the H4 format is the bulb is a single arc that produces an intense light (while only consuming 35W of power). The bulb has a solenoid that pulls the bulb in our out to produce a high or low beam. On a conventional headlight system there is a more intense light on high beam. With the HID the beam is the same intensity but the beam height is controlled to keep the light out of the oncoming driver's vision. With the lens I used the beam height is tightly controlled as well as the beam spread (left to right) as well. any HID bulb in a reflector housing without a way to focus the light, is just going to scatter the beam and blind oncoming traffic, which would make it fairly inefficient at providing any usable light. (also could you post a link to the lens? I checked google and visions website, but nothing came up for "Vision-X VX-7HD lens" ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FricFrac Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 any HID bulb in a reflector housing without a way to focus the light, is just going to scatter the beam and blind oncoming traffic, which would make it fairly inefficient at providing any usable light. (also could you post a link to the lens? I checked google and visions website, but nothing came up for "Vision-X VX-7HD lens" ) A reflector in a H4 lens is a concave dish. That concave dish is how the light is focused. Its exactly the same principal of bending light waves as bending light waves with a lens. Its simple physics. As for the link for the VX-7HD lens well it doesn't exist - because there is no 7HD - I mistyped it - should be the VX-7RD lens ( http://www.visionxusa.com/halogen/sealedbeam/) sorry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoov100 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 A reflector in a H4 lens is a concave dish. That concave dish is how the light is focused. Its exactly the same principal of bending light waves as bending light waves with a lens. Its simple physics. As for the link for the VX-7HD lens well it doesn't exist - because there is no 7HD - I mistyped it - should be the VX-7RD lens ( http://www.visionxusa.com/halogen/sealedbeam/) sorry about that. dude, go read the wiki page on headlights and come back and tell me that a reflector type headlight is going to be even somewhat close to a projector.. (btw we used 6 of those lights on my friends truck, they work great in the desert.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 any HID bulb in a reflector housing without a way to focus the light, is just going to scatter the beam and blind oncoming traffic, which would make it fairly inefficient at providing any usable light. Hey Hoov.. that statement isnt intirely acurate. My Lexus IS300 come with Factory installed HID's. There is no projector, Just a correctly shaped back reflector. It is Very bright and works perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Gabe, that may be possible, but I guarantee Toyota spent a helluva $$ on getting those right. Hardly in the same league as those eBay type "Ultimate HID Kits the easy way" crapolas being pushed everywhere you look now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Gabe, that may be possible, but I guarantee Toyota spent a helluva $$ on getting those right. Hardly in the same league as those eBay type "Ultimate HID Kits the easy way" crapolas being pushed everywhere you look now... probably true yes.. but I did want it known that you do NOT have to have projector beams to have HID's work. with that said..I cannot wait to get projectors in my Z because the cheapo H4 housings I have scatter the light from my HID's I have installed.. hehe.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neotech84 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Hate to point out the obvious, but this is posted in the Engine Components electrical section and HID's are more miscellaneous tech orientated........ That being said, I would like to see pics as I am not the biggest fan of the projector "look" but love what they do for HID's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoov100 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Hey Hoov.. that statement isnt intirely acurate. My Lexus IS300 come with Factory installed HID's. There is no projector, Just a correctly shaped back reflector. It is Very bright and works perfectly. lol, I love how they just flipped the image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Again these are "just" high quality HID's in a quality H4 housing. Don't get me wrong - I don't have anything against projectors - I love how they look. I just don't want people to think that a reflector is inferior to a projector. The problem with a projector is that they are difficult/expensive to get and for me the best performance for the $$ was the H4 lens. There are tons of different ones and if you get yours locally if it doesn't work for you then you can take it back and try a different style. I would stay away from the cheap plastic lens/plastic reflector as they are typically cheaply made and poorly designed. I like where you are going on your posted thread because its hard to find a good projector if there isn't anything available at the local wreaking yard can be difficult. Its also hard to replicate something that someone else has done. Personally I'm looking to build a custom headlight for a friend's 240Z with projectors and a custom headlight bucket but finding parts are challenging. Keep up the good work on this front - I'm watching to see what happens with this. I don't mean to come across harshly but from most of the comments slagging the set up I'm a little defensive. I want to provide people with a repeatable quality set up that is as cost effective as I could find. I know there are a LOT of low quality HID kits out there and I was very happy with the one I found and I'm just passing that little tidbit of info along to my fellow Z car enthusiast. You can use whatever you want - its your money. There are also a lot of low quality H4 lenses out there as well. Shop locally if you don't know where to find a good one then you can take it back if it doesn't work out. I hate spending money on something that only works half way or not at all. For me this was money well spent and I feel I got the best bang for my buck with this set up. If you like the looks of a projector and doing a custom set up then go down that road and post your results but don't infer or assume that the projectors are superior. Until someone like Bens1088 can provide the end user with a quality product its difficult to reproduce some of the HID setups. This setup is easily reproduced and you know what you are paying, what you are getting out of it and the benefits that comes along with switching to HID. Fair enough. I don't mean to put you down for the info. If it's a quality reflector, and does not blind oncoming drivers, I'm all for it. Can you show us a shot of your mentioned lights projected against a wall at 25 feet or so. That would be the seller.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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