Buiolding a Turbo car for a Customer

[jeffer949]

Just one question? why only 275hp? Your already going to be replacing the turbo and injectors and it really wont cost him much more if any to buy a little bigger ones. Put some 440cc injectors and lets say a t3/t40e on it and you can get to 350hp pretty easy. Idk I just see the work going into the engine that can support more and then cutting it off at 275hp. Thats just a thought i was having. In my mind i was thinking in the 10k-12 ballpark. Maybe if your doing this on the side in your garage a little less.

[extreme_accordion]

I haven't seen it yet so here goes:

 

Get it in writing from the customer

His expectations

His expenses

Get it signed off by the customer

 

Then put in writing piece by piece

Your expectations

Your expenses

And sign off on it

 

Then meet somewhere in between which is reality that you can provide and that they will have to pay for

put it in writing piece by piece

and both of you sign off on it

 

Any 'wants' of his beyond this down the road are authors alts and cost 25% more than your norm.

 

Any 'needs' you have beyond this down the road to complete the project you may have to eat.

 

And document the heck out of it and get sign offs on it at every step.

Get payments as you go along.

 

May want to arrange to hold the pink slip until completed if he doesn't want to pay as you go along.

 

These are things I wished I had known and done when I was doing contract consulting for websites many moons ago.

 

The work being done to this car - the man hours/expertise are just as expensive as the parts.

[WizardBlack]

I don't think he is out to burn me. I think he just doesn't understand all the time and effort involved.

 

Doesn't matter whether he is or is not. You know how it will go. He is either right on top of you asking 'did you get this done yet?' and 'can you do this while you're in there?' and 'it shouldn't cost that much more', etc., or he will get a massive bill after it's done and not agree to the amount of work it took.

By law you have to give him a quote if it's over $500 (IIRC) or the second situation will occur. Then you're left with another car that you can't file for the title on and he is out of a car. Trust me. I used to run a shop and that type of customer will never be a profitable situation for you.

[johnc]

I'll do you a favor and estimate the work.

 

20-40 hours on the phone with customer - 40 hours

Track down most all parts needed to do the build - 20 hours.

install 350 seats - 12 hours.

install 2 new rear view mirrors - 4 hours.

stereo system - 6 hours.

complete polly suspension system front and rear and steering - 16 hours.

struts and springs - 24 hours.

take car for new tires - 2 hours.

trans and rear mount - 8 hours.

new shifter boots - 2 hours.

toyota brake upgrade with stainless lines - 16 hours.

rebuild rear brakes - 4 hours.

mount 240z rear bumper - 2 hours.

re-key all door and hatch locks - 4 hours.

door seals - 2 hours.

quarter glass seals inners and outers - 4 hours.

disassemble and reassemble turbo motor with all new external parts and some new internal - 40 hours.

remove old motor and trans - 2 hours.

install new motor and trans - 4 hours.

mount intercooler - 12 hours.

build and install IC pipes and hoses - 14 hours.

clean and paint under hood and engine compartment. It has undercoating all over it - 18 hours.

install new 3" exhaust system - 6 hours.

mod new exhaust for wastegate dump - 4 hours.

install and tune MSD setup - 12 hours.

build fuel system complete front to rear - 8 hours.

custom add on injector setup and tuning - 4 hours.

tune and install all electronics for new motor setup - 12 hours.

Detail the entire setup - 8 hours.

Drive the car from Knoxville TN to Orlando to deliver and fly home - 8 hours.

 

Pretty close to 330 hours of labor. Figure 6 hours of work each day and you've got at least two months to get the work done if everything goes right and the parts arrive on time. And this is just estimate and a low one at that. Things will go wrong.

Edited October 9, 2009 by johnc

[johnc]

I don't think he realizes what it cost to do what he wants and he keeps adding more every day.

 

BTW... you need to get him under control immediately and set his expectations. Be very explicit in your discussions and make sure he is explicit in what he wants you to do and for how much. Don't try to work a "deal" with him and don't feel guilty about charging for your time. Give him an honest, good faith estimate but make it clear that every time he adds an item it will cost him an hour of your time to add that item to the project and provide him with an updated estimate and project schedule.

 

Above all, be ready to walk away before this project starts if you have any worries or feelings of dread. A project like this is a relationship between you and your customer. If its bad at the start, it will only get worse.

[GeeZ]

I'm with John Coffey. This customer will be a nightmare unless everything is laid out in writing including a payment schedule & agreement that special parts paid up front. Don't front any expensive parts. Good Luck.

 

Shop owners: anybody have some good disclaimers for their estimates/invoices?

[johnc]

My on-line one is here:

 

http://www.betamotorsports.com/legal/main.php

[Tony D]

I can usually get 120 hours a month billed. So that looks like 3 months worked...solid, with nothing else in your shop.

Take into consideration other work that pays immediate cash flow needs (lets be practical here) and this job could take the better part of 6 months to a year.

 

Regardless of his fundage, is he willing to commit to paying you $30 Grand in weekly or even monthly installments over the course of a year? That's $2500 a month---or $5000 if you can do it in 6 months. That's just covering your labor costs, not the parts! Of course I'm figuring on $100 an hour, you can charge what you want, but even at half that, is the guy willing to write that check for your time on a consistent basis PLUS pay for parts in advance (or even in arrears 30 days?).

 

Like you said, he likely doesn't appreciate the committment required. Someone who runs an auto detailing business once explained to me a $330 Bill for Detailing a car for labor this way: "It takes this guy 8 hours to do this detailing, it's all he's going to do for the whole day---you figure it at 8 hours, likely it will take 10 or 12 hours because he's not going to let it out the door until it's right. He's not billing for the extra time, but he knows if he doesn't put the time in, and you loose a show because there is grease showing on an inner tie rod boot, you aren't ever coming back and he will have to find another customer to make up for that 8 hours of billing somehow to pay his bills!"

 

Same with you---you have an 'estimate' but likely the time expended will likely be more, and you will be held to the 'estimate' when it comes down to it. It's Catch-22, you can't let some stuff go out the door, regardless of what someone 'wants' because you know in the long run you will be bitten by it. So you choke the extra labor because doing it right is worth the short term loss in revenue compared to the long term loss of reputation.

 

I don't envy your situation. If they choke on it, likely they really can't afford it, and need to lower their expectations. Finding a diplomatic way to explain that to them, or working it in stages (perhaps only doing a cosmetic on the engine, and waiting for the power later---8 versus 40 hours, that's a big labor savings, and PARTS cost reduction as well!) so they keep some of the high-dollar things for later once they have sorted the rest of the build to their satisfaction may be an alternative.

 

Good Luck Man!