MORE CALIFORNIA SMOG INFO

[ctc]

Cool Dave. When I went through some of this with my Skyline, I didn't have the advantage of a knowledgable club. You are in a better position than I was.

 

I figured you knew what was involved, the Datsun 240K guys have to jump through hoops just to put on fender flares!

[Gollum]

Ctc,

... I am unaware of what `over-the-table' implies in my particular case (VK56 into 280Z)...

 

I think he's talking about getting a BAR engine label for your vehicle. In california any engine swap can be legalized as long as it meets certain criteria, which in all honesty aren't that complicated. Basically you need to keep the engine stock and retain every emissions component from the donor vehicle. This means every sensor and every emissions related hose must be in place and functional. If you had 4 O2 sensors (one per bank before and after cat usually) then all 4 must be present after the swap.

 

 

There's a few minor loopholes, such as if the vehicle never came with a CAT you might be able to get away without one saying that the vehicle's floorpan wasn't designed for the heat a CAT creates and thus would be hazardous to run on that vehicle. Still a stupid way to skirt it imo, just put the CATs on.

 

There's some other basics though that are covered in another thread here. The engine can't be considered an emissions degradation, and they get really unhappy if you put a carbed engine in a vehicle that was EFI. The engine must be from a newer model year. The engine must be from the same weight class of vehicle (so no big blocks from passenger vans, unless you can prove it has all the emissions stuff from a passenger car that had the same engine from a newer model year than your car).

 

This is all the "over the table" way of doing it. Trying to get out of testing through specialty, collectors, or whatever registration is kind of a "back door" to the system. I'd say roughly 20% or there abouts of a smog Ref's job is handling these engine swaps trying to be legalized. Seems like when I was hanging around the local Ref a lot I saw at least one engine swap in there a week, more common than the SB100 verification. The majority of their work is handling people sent to them by CHP or other organizations. They're usually very cool about helping you with engine swap details, but they won't like being the one doing research for you, they'll just tell you what you need to research and find out, and what you need to make them happy.

[Vintage-TechZ]

I may be misinterpreting this read..... but it still sounds like all directives require an original TYPE or series block...so no matter a straight six swap or not.....if it came with a 2.4 L series six cyl.....it won't pass with a 2.6 RB.....regardless of passing a sniffer.

 

Am I wrong here ? I hope so................ Because if not......I wouldn't even get my S30 with a six cyl. 2.8et passed....let alone the RB26dett !

[johnc]

None of the RB engines will ever be smog legal in the USA. There were never brought in and certified to Federal, let alone State standards.

[ctc]

I may be misinterpreting this read..... but it still sounds like all directives require an original TYPE or series block...so no matter a straight six swap or not.....if it came with a 2.4 L series six cyl.....it won't pass with a 2.6 RB.....regardless of passing a sniffer.

 

Am I wrong here ? I hope so................ Because if not......I wouldn't even get my S30 with a six cyl. 2.8et passed....let alone the RB26dett !

 

To get a standard, non-historical, registration.....

 

RB swap, I will be bold and say you will not be able to do that legally.

L28ET swap, as long as the engine is stock (as it came in the 280zx), you can claim it as an engine swap under California law and take it to a BAR ref and with the proper 280ZX emissions equipment it can be legally registered.

 

For historic registration....

 

There is a gray area regarding the terms "collector, special interest and histroical interest". Apperently with the correct supporting documentation, as mentioned above, one can get a historical exemption regardless of modifications.

 

That's my take, target range is now open for shooting up my logic. I'll PM you off line and we can work through your situation if you would like. Contact Tony as well, he knows a considerable amount on this subject and knows some of the mechanics of process better than I. I eventually swapped a bone stock L28ET (out of a 1983 280ZX) into my 1977 JDM Skyline and the Ref agent gave me the ok to get the car registered. It will forever be smogged as a 1983 280zx because of the engine swap.

[Vintage-TechZ]

To get a standard, non-historical, registration.....

 

RB swap, I will be bold and say you will not be able to do that legally.

L28ET swap, as long as the engine is stock (as it came in the 280zx), you can claim it as an engine swap under California law and take it to a BAR ref and with the proper 280ZX emissions equipment it can be legally registered.

 

For historic registration....

 

There is a gray area regarding the terms "collector, special interest and histroical interest". Apperently with the correct supporting documentation, as mentioned above, one can get a historical exemption regardless of modifications.

 

That's my take, target range is now open for shooting up my logic. I'll PM you off line and we can work through your situation if you would like. Contact Tony as well, he knows a considerable amount on this subject and knows some of the mechanics of process better than I. I eventually swapped a bone stock L28ET (out of a 1983 280ZX) into my 1977 JDM Skyline and the Ref agent gave me the ok to get the car registered. It will forever be smogged as a 1983 280zx because of the engine swap.

 

Loud and clear and thank you !

[Gollum]

A VQ swap is legal if you retain the smog equipment from the donor vehicle (350Z I'd imagine)

 

A LS1 swap is legal if you retain the smog equipment from the donor vehicle (camaro I'd imagine)

 

A SBC swap is legal if you retain the smog equipment from the donor vehicle (geez, take your pick, just make sure it's newer than your Z)

 

A Ford Pinto swap is legal if you retain the smog equipment from the donor vehicle (ranger, pinto, mustang, etc)

 

A 2JZGTE swap is legal if you retain the smog equipment from the donor vehicle (supra, or 2JZGE from other toyos)

 

A 5.0/302 swap is legal if you retain the smog equipment from the donor vehicle (mustang, small truck, mercury, etc)

 

Again, I thought I laid this all out fairly clear in my last post. The requirements aren't complicated, but it's tedious work and 9 times out of 10 people roll up to the ref with a swap completed and end up going home because they failed to read the rules clearly or failed to even try to read them. They just show up at the ref expecting them to legalize something at the drop of a hat.

[Tony D]

As Gollum says, 'compliance isn't as bad as most would have you believe'...

 

I had a guy call me ecstatic that he just got his Turbo Maxima through Smog. He couldn't believe how EASY it was...

 

Just a LITTLE effort to do it and you're LEGAL, FOREVER.

 

If people put as much effort into simply complying with the laws as they do in trying to skirt them in some bogus dodge, their lives would be far more simpler.

 

I had a guy complain the 'Historic Plate' was impossible to get. He had gone into the DMV making the statement "I heard I don't have to smog my car if I have a historic plate" and wonders why it was impossible for him to get it...

[strotter]

OK, here's a question: how would the smog laws apply to a generic gen 1 crate v8? I know they're used as smog-compliant repair items in earlier cars. What smog would apply? The equivalent to the original gear in the Datsun?

Edited April 20, 2012 by strotter

[Vintage-TechZ]

OK, here's a question: how would the smog laws apply to a generic gen 1 crate v8? I know they're used as smog-compliant repair items in earlier cars. What smog would apply? The equivalent to the original gear in the Datsun?

 

I'm gathering it would be held to whatever the most configurable application that the V-8 would have been used in during any given production year....and whether it was fuel injected, carbed and or utilizing an ecu for you to run it and pass the sniffer.

 

Am I far off here ??

[Gollum]

Say you bought the Ford Racing 302 crate engine. You could get all the smog equipment (egr, pcv, evap, ecu, injectors, cats, exhaust manis etc) from a '93 Mustang GT (might require swapping intakes and such that all the smog equipment works correctly) and then you bring it to the ref to BAR label it as a '93 mustang GT.

 

Again, the Ref will need a make model and year, and then he can start checking that it was all done correctly.

 

 

Something else to remember that many people forget, is that if you have any sensors in the tank, odds are you'll either need to swap the tank or adapt the sensors to your tank. In many cases the ref will just say "you have to swap the tank over", which makes sense in many ways since the older tank might not be made to the same evap standards.

[Tony D]

Don't discount the stock early Datsun tanks!

I corked mine up when I did the EVAP hoses and it held 7psig for 48 hours!

 

The tank is sound, adapting the sensors...and more usually the filler neck and MODERN CAP is the most you should have to do. It just takes talking with the referee and explaining HOW you transferred the sensors and filler neck from the donor vehicle's tank to the S30 tank. The neck is a machined adapter away usually.

 

I have seen referees say the tank has to be swapped because "The early tank doesn't have provisions for..." but discussing it with him and explaining how you transferred everything before he gets to that point usually stops the mixing of compliance. If you show you know what you are doing, and took pains to comply with a stock tank, they get impressed.

 

And nothing says you can't shop referees, either! Or talk with them BEFORE you do the swap to see if they are willing to accept it. You only have to get through the referee ONCE. Once you have that sticker...everyone else has to accept it.

 

Just because one referee says you have to change the tank, it doesn't mean the guy 5 miles down the road won't accept sensor swaps.

 

Most sensors are low-pressure cap-integrity checks for the OBD computer. Many times putting a "T" into an EVAP line lets you use the sensor without penetrating the tank.

 

The HARDEST thing I've found is getting the stock EVAP hoses to keep from leaking. I change them to 3/8 or 7/16" FUEL LINE and holding pressure ceases to be an issue. After the cap/filler neck adaptation, the ref can stick the tester in there, pump it up...and scratch his head in admiring, impressed, disbelief! The stock Datsun filler neck and cap don't have adapters available for them, so changing it make the refs job just like any other late-model. And that makes for a no worries pass!

[HowlerMonkey]

What would california say to a 1991 Infiniti M30 with a L28et?.........if it passes the sniffer?

 

Engine management is currently the 1991 system the car came with.

Edited April 21, 2012 by HowlerMonkey

[Vintage-TechZ]

What would california say to a 1991 Infiniti M30 with a L28et?.........if it passes the sniffer?

 

Engine management is currently the 1991 system the car came with.

 

If I've read correctly.......in order to pass, you'll need EVERYTHING emissions related the ENGINE was supplied with for its given year of build from Nissan.....NOT what the chassis came with.

 

Also.....I don't think you can actually go backward in engine install>chassis.

[ctc]

Howler's set-up would not pass. Engine that is swapped has to be newer than the chassis.

[Tony D]

CTC is correct, except for pre-May 1984 engine swaps. That was the last time you could backdate an engine into a chissis...

In other words, before most on this board were born!