R200 CLSD Mounting

[jacob80]

Hey fellas, just a couple questions here:

 

1. I want to seize the clunking noise once and for all, so I have purchased a Z31 CLSD and CV axles, and four extra clutches as an upgrade from only two. I will also be purchasing the AZC mustache bar and bracket to enable me to use the finned cover in my S30. This is my only potential dilemma: how long should I expect to wait on Ross to get back to me so that I can get these:

 

http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=32_53&products_id=56

 

2. Also, it says that I must supply a companion flange. Where can I get these?

 

3. Are 280z stub axles hard to come by? I haven't seen many around. Are there alternatives? It looks like Modern Motorsports makes a billet set, but are they worth it? I am running 4 lug wheels.

 

4. And lastly, is it still possible to get my hands on a Ron Tyler differential mount?

 

Thanks guys! If you think of anything else I am missing, please give your input!

[jacob80]

Hey fellas, just a couple questions here:

 

1. I want to seize the clunking noise once and for all, so I have purchased a Z31 CLSD and CV axles, and four extra clutches as an upgrade from only two. I will also be purchasing the AZC mustache bar and bracket to enable me to use the finned cover in my S30. This is my only potential dilemma: how long should I expect to wait on Ross to get back to me so that I can get these:

 

http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=32_53&products_id=56

 

2. Also, it says that I must supply a companion flange. Where can I get these?

 

3. Are 280z stub axles hard to come by? I haven't seen many around. Are there alternatives? It looks like Modern Motorsports makes a billet set, but are they worth it? I am running 4 lug wheels.

 

4. And lastly, is it still possible to get my hands on a Ron Tyler differential mount?

 

Thanks guys! If you think of anything else I am missing, please give your input!

 

Ok, all question have been answered, but I have one more. I have a 1973 240z that this differential will be installed into, so how hard is it to install a 280z R200 flange into the differential??

[rossman]

Are you talking about the drive shaft input flange? It's easy if you have a impact wrench. Just put flange/differential in a vice, remove the nut, swap out the flanges and torque the nut. You might want to consider replacing the seals while you are at it.

[Nigel]

Are you talking about the drive shaft input flange? It's easy if you have a impact wrench. Just put flange/differential in a vice, remove the nut, swap out the flanges and torque the nut. You might want to consider replacing the seals while you are at it.

 

Depending on how much wear the diff has in it, you might find that even if you torque to minimum spec, that the diff will seize up and be difficult to turn. So, tighten the nut a bit at a time and keep checking to see if it's rotating freely.

 

Nigel

'73 240ZT

[JMortensen]

Depending on how much wear the diff has in it, you might find that even if you torque to minimum spec, that the diff will seize up and be difficult to turn. So, tighten the nut a bit at a time and keep checking to see if it's rotating freely.

This is not true. The R200 doesn't have a crush sleeve, it uses solid pinion spacers. Tightening the pinion nut has not effect on the bearing preload or the pinion depth or backlash. If you tighten the nut and the diff seizes, there are other problems.

 

Don't make it harder or more confusing than it needs to be. Switching the flange should be as easy as taking the pinion nut off, removing the flange, installing the new flange, red loctiting the pinion nut, and torquing it to spec. Can't recall the spec but it's ~150 ft/lbs. Basically RFT and it should be good to go.

[jacob80]

So do I need the R200 flange nut or is the stock one fine?

 

Here is a diagram and P/N's. Should I be able to call Nissan and give them these numbers?? I wish someone on here just had this flange I could snag...

 

[JMortensen]

You can reuse the nut you take off. You only need the flange which is #37.

[RB26powered74zcar]

Be aware that there are several different bolt patterns depending what the R200 came in. Also, if you are swapping from a R180, I don't believe the input flanges are compatible.

 

I don't mean to confuse the thread, so if I'm off base here, speak up and I'll delete/edit this post.

[Nigel]

This is not true. The R200 doesn't have a crush sleeve, it uses solid pinion spacers. Tightening the pinion nut has not effect on the bearing preload or the pinion depth or backlash. If you tighten the nut and the diff seizes, there are other problems.

 

Don't make it harder or more confusing than it needs to be. Switching the flange should be as easy as taking the pinion nut off, removing the flange, installing the new flange, red loctiting the pinion nut, and torquing it to spec. Can't recall the spec but it's ~150 ft/lbs. Basically RFT and it should be good to go.

 

Not true? How dare you contradict me!

 

Seriously, I've been on this site for 9 years, and have less than 450 posts, so I obviously don't post something unless I feel it's worthwhile. On some occasions, when you torque the flange back up, the diff won't turn smoothly afterwards. I've had this happen to me personally, and it really left me scratching my head and wondering what the hell was going on. I conferred with a professional mechanic who's been servicing Datsun's for 30 years, and he confirmed that this issue pops up from time to time. Obviously it's not supposed to do that. I never said anything about crush sleeves. It should be as simple as you suggest, but sometimes it's not, and I was trying to give Jacob a heads up. It doesn't necessarily mean the diff is toast either. My mechanic friend advised me that they have been able to return these differentials to years of successful service by tightening the nut by feel, so to speak, and not strictly by the torque value. Not ideal, but it apparently works. Personally, I chose to get another diff.

 

Nigel

'73 240ZT

[JMortensen]

Seriously, I've been on this site for 9 years, and have less than 450 posts, so I obviously don't post something unless I feel it's worthwhile. On some occasions, when you torque the flange back up, the diff won't turn smoothly afterwards. I've had this happen to me personally, and it really left me scratching my head and wondering what the hell was going on. I conferred with a professional mechanic who's been servicing Datsun's for 30 years, and he confirmed that this issue pops up from time to time. Obviously it's not supposed to do that. I never said anything about crush sleeves. It should be as simple as you suggest, but sometimes it's not, and I was trying to give Jacob a heads up. It doesn't necessarily mean the diff is toast either. My mechanic friend advised me that they have been able to return these differentials to years of successful service by tightening the nut by feel, so to speak, and not strictly by the torque value. Not ideal, but it apparently works. Personally, I chose to get another diff.

Crush sleeve differentials have the pinion bearing preload set with the torque on the pinion nut. If you change the torque there you can really affect the pinion bearing/race relationship and you can end up with slop which allows the pinion to move around or you can end up with WAY too much preload which will bind the pinion shaft up. That's why I ASSumed you were making reference to crush sleeves.

 

Really in the R200 no reasonable amount of torque should lock the thing up. It's as simple as that. If that happened on yours, something went wrong. If I had to guess I would say the pinion seal got F'd up when you put the yoke on, or the seal wasn't bottomed in the housing so the little lip that sticks out was dragging on the backside of the flange as it turned. Changing the torque on the nut really doesn't have the same effect as it does on a crush sleeve setup, so barring something minor like the pinion seal dragging or something major like the bearings being totally shot, the pinion nut torque should not have any effect on the pinion shaft spinning freely.

 

I've put a couple on my Z over the years, my MO is to red loctite the nut and then hit it with an IR231 impact with the impact on 5 (highest setting). I'll drain the air compressor until it fills up again and then hit it with a nice full tank. Mine didn't seize.

Edited April 3, 2010 by JMortensen

[jacob80]

Crush sleeve differentials have the pinion bearing preload set with the torque on the pinion nut. If you change the torque there you can really affect the pinion bearing/race relationship and you can end up with slop which allows the pinion to move around or you can end up with WAY too much preload which will bind the pinion shaft up. That's why I ASSumed you were making reference to crush sleeves.

 

Really in the R200 no reasonable amount of torque should lock the thing up. It's as simple as that. If that happened on yours, something went wrong. If I had to guess I would say the pinion seal got F'd up when you put the yoke on, or the seal wasn't bottomed in the housing so the little lip that sticks out was dragging on the backside of the flange as it turned. Changing the torque on the nut really doesn't have the same effect as it does on a crush sleeve setup, so barring something minor like the pinion seal dragging or something major like the bearings being totally shot, the pinion nut torque should not have any effect on the pinion shaft spinning freely.

 

I've put a couple on my Z over the years, my MO is to red loctite the nut and then hit it with an IR231 impact with the impact on 5 (highest setting). I'll drain the air compressor until it fills up again and then hit it with a nice full tank. Mine didn't seize.

 

As far as crush sleeves, pinion bearings, etc etc, I have ZERO experience with this. This will be my first differential installation, so a learning experience more than anything. What I do know is that there needs to be a driveshaft bolted up to the input flange, which is also called (from what I have gathered) the pinion. If this pinion/input flange does not match up to my driveshaft, I must find an R200 pinion/input flange that matches the bolt pattern of my driveshaft and install it, which will come from a 280z or 280zx that is equipped with an R200 from the factory. Once I have located and obtained one, I simply use my impact gun to spin off the nut that secures the 300ZX pinion/input flange to the differential, which should cause the flange to come right off, and pop the 280Z/280ZX flange on and use that same nut and hit it with the impact gun with red loctite on the threads, basically until it can't turn anymore. My one question though, is this. If I'm not mistaken, the impact gun will act as an input and turn the whole works as I'm tightening and loosening this nut resulting in me, basically chasing my tail. Should I secure/lock the differential some way? Or will the impact gun not have enough force to turn the whole works and in turn prevent me from tightening/untightening the nut? Wow that was a lot, thanks!

Edited April 3, 2010 by jacob80

[JMortensen]

You should be able to wrap a rag around the flange and hold it with one left hand while hitting the impact with the other and remove the nut that way. Same for reassembly. The flange may or may not come right off. It's a splined flange, the flange slides onto the pinion splines. The pinion by the way is the long shaft and gear inside the diff which turns the ring gear, the ring gear is bolted to the limited slip. Those pinion splines may be rusty and then you'd need a puller ($10 tool at any auto parts store). I haven't needed a puller for any of the flanges I've pulled off in the past, but if you're in the rust belt in PA or something you may not be so lucky.

[240zdan]

Interesting. I put an input flange from a 240sx r200 onto my r32 gtr r200. Everythign visually looked the same as far as seal/bearing surfaces. When I put it on and tightened with impact, the diff locked up. At first I thought its because it needs to be torqued but now im thinking the flange is bottoming out on the seal. Will have to take both flanges to a height guage and see whats up.

[jacob80]

You should be able to wrap a rag around the flange and hold it with one left hand while hitting the impact with the other and remove the nut that way. Same for reassembly. The flange may or may not come right off. It's a splined flange, the flange slides onto the pinion splines. The pinion by the way is the long shaft and gear inside the diff which turns the ring gear, the ring gear is bolted to the limited slip. Those pinion splines may be rusty and then you'd need a puller ($10 tool at any auto parts store). I haven't needed a puller for any of the flanges I've pulled off in the past, but if you're in the rust belt in PA or something you may not be so lucky.

 

Alright, cool, sounds easy enough. I believe I do have a puller for my front pulley and such. Thanks for all your help, I'll be sure to snap photos when the time comes.

[janaka]

Be aware that there are several different bolt patterns depending what the R200 came in. Also, if you are swapping from a R180, I don't believe the input flanges are compatible.

 

I don't mean to confuse the thread, so if I'm off base here, speak up and I'll delete/edit this post.

I had this happen to me this january.

I blew the snot out of my R200 spider gears and got a replacement R200 from a member. Pulled mine out, threw his in and went to bolt up the driveshaft and only two holes of 4 lined up. Talk about frustrating. I then broke my finger removing the 'new' diff to swap the flanges (mine was square, other was rectangle). In the end it all worked though. Get the big nut off, pull the flange, put flange back on new diff, re-use nut and make it RFT (<--my new fav acronym!)

 

jay

[jacob80]

Awesome, thanks fellas!!! I just dropped my driveshaft, rear suspension, differential, and struts last night, just waiting on my LSD, CV shafts, adapters, stub axles, and Ron Tyler differential mount. I'll let you know how it goes!

[jacob80]

Hey guys! Well, I got the input flange on lickety split, pulled out the LSD, then ran into troubles. The ring gear bolts DO NOT want to come off! I sat there and hammered on them with my impact gun to no avail. I need some help fellas, I'm not sure what to do next! Luckily, I had other things to do, but damn, what are these things torqued to!?