Fuel Cell Install and Thoughts

[EvilC]

Well it has come time for me to switch to a fuel cell. This is a new area for me so I am looking for feedback and some info. I am thinking of having this all installed next week. Below is a link so part of a thread I was following which I like the install and how clean it appeared.

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/95320-cutting-out-the-spare-tire-well/page__view__findpost__p__897317

 

 

Ok so below are the products I am thinking about going with:

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/Aeromotive/027/18660/10002/-1

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/JAZ+Products/547/345-250-03/10002/-1

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/JAZ+Products/547/315-030-03/10002/-1

 

 

Tank, 15 gallons since I do drive the car to track events.....it isn't a race car yet. lol Then I wanted to buy a kit so I can try to use the stock filler neck location. In the perfect world, I would like to extend that filler neck all the way to the gas door area and use some type of flush mount gas neck and get rid of the Z twist cap. Hmmm, maybe a 280zx style or something newer. Anyway I am looking for feedback from those who have installed cells before or been around them long enough to see something I may be missing. I plan to have a "6 point" mounting system around the cell to keep it in place. With the fuel cell installed, I will be able to get rid of the e vap tank now? I saw in my 2/70 car there wasn't even one installed. Thanks ahead for feedback guys.

 

Clive

[MONGO510]

Be aware that the tank you listed will not be legal for use in many sanctioned events.

 

mongo

[mr jdm]

Im not to sure if your dead set on going with an internal pump. But for much less you can grab this.

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-293215-S/

 

and have external walbro or a1000 and still come out on top of the price of that cell.

[EvilC]

No I am not dead set on anything and thanks for posting. Here goes the questions - Mongo what about it makes it not legal? Also I only do HPDE events with the car, no real "racing".

 

I am trying to get rid of the external pump and worrying about where to mount it and all. I have beed fighting fuel starvation issues since I put the car together and I mean 4 gallons or so of gas in the tank. I would love to save some money on the setup so this is why I am posting =)

 

Thanks again.

[johnc]

I can speak to the SCCA rules regarding a fuel cell:

 

GCR 9.3.27 - ...All safety fuel cells shall be constructed and certified in accordance with the FIA FT-3 or higher (FT-3.5, FT-5, etc.) specifications. Alternatively, safety fuel cells shall be constructed in accordance with FIA FT-3 or higher specifications and tested to those requirements by an independent facility as witnessed and certified by a Professional Engineer. The results of these tests shall be submitted to the Club Racing department for inclusion on a list of approved suppliers. All safety fuel cells shall consist of a foam-filled fuel bladder enclosed in a metal container at minimum.

 

Basically any non-stock fuel container run on a race track with SCCA must have a FIA FT-3 certification. Those cells listed on the Jegs site might meet those requirements but the manufacturers have not submitted them for certification with the FIA or SCCA. That would be your responsibility if you wanted to run them with SCCA. NASA has similar rules.

[johnc]

Look here: http://www.atlinc.com/2010_Race_Catalog/page13.html

 

And here's why this is an area where you shouldn't scrimp: http://www.atlinc.com/racing.html

[EvilC]

John you are correct for sure. Safety is def something I try to keep in mind esp since I have spun and hit at the track already. ATL is right down the road from me in Jersey. I should go down there and check them out. I rather spend x2 the money and drive in peace. I am thinking I can use one of the molded cells and drop it in a metal container to be safe. Hmmm more reading later today.

Edited November 4, 2010 by EvilC

[mark]

If the main reason you are doing this is fuel starvation then maybe you don't need a fuel cell. A surge tank with a low pressure pump feeding it and a high pressure pump from the surge tank will solve the fuel starvation problems, be cheaper and easier.

 

If you do go the fuel cell route buy a real cell with an internal pump. You skin may thank you one day.

[EvilC]

Mark, real concern is safety then the fuel starvation. Two years ago I spun in the esses at Watkins Glen and I remember sliding backwards praying not to hit sqaure in the rear. I looked down for the cam lock so I can get out ASAP just incase a fire started. Didn't the tank but don't ever want to have to think about it again.

[EvilC]

Ok guys after some reading and calling ATL today here is what I think I need to go with. I need to call again and hopefully get another rep who will be more helpful.

 

Items:

 

1. Sport Cell Complete 12 gallon Part # SP112. I will upgrade to the AL box which is half the weight (10lbs) for $100. I will also change the filler neck to be on a 45 degree angle aiming towards our stock filler location.

 

2. Black-Box Surge kit Part # CFD-600-HP

 

3. Fuel Sending Unit Part # KS170 GM 0-90 Ohms

 

 

That takes care of the actual cell items needed. I am also thinking about ordering and making the next item work.

 

4. Fill Cap Remote Part # TF429

 

 

Ok another question I have about the cell is, do I still need to run a vent line to the evap tank or get rid of it all together and let the cell vent to the atmosphere if it needs to vent at all. What have most of you guys used to pipe from the stock filler location to the cell. I can use the expen$ive clear hoses they have or maybe welding up some SS tubing? Ideas....hmmm.

 

This setup will cost me a few hundred more bucks then planned but again.....can't put a price on safety!

[johnc]

You can vent to atmosphere. Use a clear plastic gasoline resistant line and loop it on top of the fuel cell and then drop it down at the back of the car in the right rear corner. When you fill the car watch the vent line to make sure you don't overfill and put a small can or bucket under the vent line outlet so you don't spill on the ground. Any fuel spill will get you a reprimand at any race track in the country.

[Tony D]

I did what John suggested but ran mine up higher in the C Pillar and looped it up there, with a small K&N filter on the end to keep bees and leaf-cutter beetles out (don't ask...) With it that high, I have always been able to see it coming up the filler neck before it got to a point where it dumped out the vent.

 

Connection to the EVAP cannister is possible for the same advantages, plus you recover the VOC's...but that only works if you leave the vacuum line from the EVAP to the intake manifold so it purges when you start up.

[mario_82_ZXT]

If you were to buy a certified foam filled bladder, could you make an enclosure yourself?

[johnc]

If you were to buy a certified foam filled bladder, could you make an enclosure yourself?

 

Yes.

[EvilC]

Yup Mario another place to save a few dollars.

 

Here is what I would like my filler to look like. I plan to have my tank located much lower and flush with the trunk deck lid.

Stole this pic from another member:

 

Edited November 10, 2010 by EvilC

[tjandriesen]

Here is another option

 

http://www.fuelsafe.com/store/ed115.html

 

Also, keep in mind that if in the future you do want to race the car the cell needs to be isolated from the driver's compartment. The set up above would never pass tech.

Edited December 26, 2010 by tjandriesen

[z-ya]

Since we are doing some vintage races next year we need an FIA cell. We are using an ATL SP115:

 

http://atlinc.com/2010_Race_Catalog/page11.html

 

It fits well and doesn't protrude below the body panels. Also will clear the period correct exhaust we will be running.

 

 

 

The outer case is fairly old as you can see. It will get powder coated before final install. The bladder is new, as well as all the other gaskets and the check valve. We will box in the cell with 1" box steel. We are also going to recess the battery box into the floor to lower the CG more.

 

This is the cover we ran with the old fuel cell. It fits good over the ATL cell.

 

 

This is the old custom built cell we have been running for 5 or so years now. No fuel starvaton whatsoever. Built like a tank, but not FIA certified.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2010 by z-ya

[jasper]

Hey Clive,

When you call ATL, ask for Lou Damico (# 2 Guy). He was a pretty sharp guy.

He should remeber me, (also a # 2 guy), at Corinthian Motorworks, a somewhat removed subsidiary of ATL.

I used to work on his corvette, and Peter Regna's cars,(the # 1 BIG CHEESE, and owner of ATL.)

Call me if you need more info....Tommy

[Oddmanout84]

Yup Mario another place to save a few dollars.

 

Here is what I would like my filler to look like. I plan to have my tank located much lower and flush with the trunk deck lid.

Stole this pic from another member:

 

 

 

You know, I'm not the most well versed on this subject but I've had interest for some time in doing the about the same as what you're doing, Clive. I really like the idea of running a filler neck to the stock location. However, I just read the NASA/HPDE rulebook for some clarification on the rules. It looks like that setup pictured wouldn't be legal unless you completely isolated that filler neck/tube from the rest of the cabin (boxing it in with steel maybe?). I am by no means an expert on the subject, correct me if I'm wrong.

[EvilC]

So I bought some parts to do the intank black box in the stock tank. A few members have fun this setup with no issues. Since that time, I have sold the complete running gear out of my car. I am now in the middle of figuring out where I want to go next with the car. A few weeks I may know what I am doing.