MSA Twice Pipes installed

[rayaapp2]

I have a 71 240Z. L24, stock SU's, Hurricane Header(old brand installed by Downtown Datsun in San Jose when it was new)6-2-1 style, E31 head with "C" cam, and until now the original exhaust system.

 

Ive noticed that the car had no mid-range and top-end power with the stock exhaust. I have gone through everything else so the exhaust is the only thing left. My guess is that a 39 year old exhaust system should not STILL be quiet even though it is.

 

I ran across a MSA Twice pipes kit from Apexi944 here on Hybridz. So I just got the MSA system on the car. It only took me approx 6 hours to install the twice pipes. It took me about 2 hours alone to arrange the glass packs on the back. I have 2 collectors on the header that goes into a long Y pipe to the stock pre-muffler in the center of the car, so I had to convert the Y pipe into 2 straight pipes that couple to the MSA twice pipes. This conversion to dual exhaust added several hours to my time as well(2.5 hours). Since the Twice pipes had been installed before there was some prep time involved as well. It took me about 40 minutes to cut and clean up the old welds.

 

 

Im a fabricator, but even so this install fell under DIFFICULT because I went dual exhaust. I would rate this system as just HARD if it bolts to the MSA header.

The MSA twice pipes kit is very basic. It was obviously assembled with cost in mind. The mandrel bent tubing is always a plus in my world(cutting and re-welding made easy). The 2 "S" pipes are identical. This is probably the most irritating part of this kit as far as installation goes. More than likely this exhaust is suppose to be executed in a fashion that lays the glass packs horizontal not vertical. I base this hypothesis on the chrome tip orientation. I cannot imagine placing those tips so low so that it all hangs out the bottom of the rear cowl and the empty exhaust hole would not be ascetically pleasing either. It just doesnt fit correctly with the car. In my personal opinion the tips need to run vertical and sit in the exhaust slit cut into the rear cowl. So that is what I did. I installed the tips vertical. I need to cut the chrome tips off and re-orientate them now which isnt done and there-fore not included in the above install time. Because I put them vertical the provided mounts on the glass pack assembly would not work. I had to use U-clamps on both sides to mount them where the stock muffler mounts.

 

 

Once I was able to install the tips vertical I moved on to the S-pipes and these pipes have 2 90° bends and are pretty much identical in length. Because of the length issue I had make some cuts. I shortened the pipe going into the top glasspack by 3". That same pipe ended up being the left pipe. The other pipe was able to be laid on the right side and ran to the bottom glass pack.

 

 

There really needed to be about 6 more inches on the bottom pipe or 8.5" on the top pipe that would have allowed one of those pipes to run on the other side of the differential as planned out by Nissan for the 432 models exhaust. The notch is visible for this provision in the front differential cross member.

 

 

The 90° bends are barley adequate in fact extra play in the slip fit joints allows just enough movement to make up for lack in angling, but also provides the end user with a leaky exhaust system without a welder as well as giving the installer a headache because the pipe wants to move on you while your hanging and welding on it. More sophisticated bends are required for the curvature of the transmission tunnel and rear differential as well as being able to take advantage of the stock exhaust hanger system! If I had the MSA header on I would have crossed my fingers hoping it would all butt up properly. The next set of pipes are straight equal length. After that you have 2 pipes welded side by side with something like a 30° bend in them in the same direction that go into a 2.5" collector. I cut the collector off and separated the 2 pipes for my header. I was able to but the 2 pipes up to the old Y pipe and cut them to match.

 

EDIT: I have been driving the car for a day now. The exhaust is notably louder than what was on there. Verging to loud for my taste. Good thing the car isnt a daily driver. If you dont like decel back-fire sounds I would recommend leaving the AB valve and other anti-backfiring devices installed and be sure they are in working order. The stock radio is still audible in the background.

 

For $150 plus shipping for this kit NEW I cannot complain that much. Its probably worth that in materials with those bends. It scores high with the total costs, but as everyone else has stated before its a pain the arse to install.

 

Ideally I would use Chris M.'s exhaust Click here for full thread.

 

 

Well almost ideal, I would have routed the right side to the bottom and the left side to the top in an attempt to get the pipes as equal length as possible.

 

I do not know what Chris spent on his exhaust, only that it has taken him 2 or 3 times to get the sound correct.

Edited November 29, 2010 by rayaapp2

[2fast2Z]

WOW, that home build exhaust look HOT, wait a minute, that's my exhaust

 

Ray, that exhaust is my version of a Clifford copy and if i'm not mistaken, the Clifford also have the piping like this, tecnically i believe it doesen't matter that much, being it is so far from the headder as it is, others would probably know better.

The exhaust have a fantastic sound and after having my Dellortos dialed in, it is even better BUT also to loud for my taste, i have a hard time hearing my carbyes, witch for me is a much much nicer sound, so right now, i'm consider building a 2.25 inch system that will allow me to listen to the sound of my Del's sucking in air.

 

Chris

[datsun723]

Very nice write-up and I liked looking at Chris's version as well. I have the MSA twice pipes and daily'ed the car for a year. If I didn't have sound deadening and an upgraded stereo I think it could have gotten old fast. It took a buddy of mine around 3.5 hours to install it...maybe a little less.

 

You should get a clip up when you get a chance so we can hear it.

 

Here's mine.

[mario_82_ZXT]

I used to have MSA twice pipes on my bumperless 280z.

 

It sounded awesome, highway wasn't too bad, and I'd set off car alarms all the way out of the school's garage and down my street to my house.

 

What sucked was the 280z ones were designed for a huge bumper, so they stuck out a lot. Stab yourself in the leg bad. That and the glass packs get REALLY loud after a while.

[madkaw]

I couldn't be happier with my twice pipes-even though they aren't MSA pipes. I too had used basically glass packs for mufflers, but that was too loud so I went with Magnaflow mufflers. Of course my set-up is different which allows for more room for mufflers. I guess my point is that I heard some folks say that these cars don't sound good with duals, i couldn't disagree more. The sound of my exhaust begs to keep your foot in the gas. I do get some resonance at the lower rpms(2200-2500) under load, but other then that it is very managable. Highway cruise at lighter loads is music to my ears. I wish I went with Borla's for mufflers, but the cost was twice as much.

The hours I have in my exhaust can't compare with the ease of the MSA kit, but it sounds like you have to be ready to do some tweeking with their kit also.

[datsun723]

I used to have MSA twice pipes on my bumperless 280z.

 

It sounded awesome, highway wasn't too bad, and I'd set off car alarms all the way out of the school's garage and down my street to my house.

 

What sucked was the 280z ones were designed for a huge bumper, so they stuck out a lot. Stab yourself in the leg bad. That and the glass packs get REALLY loud after a while.

I actually like how far they stick out haha. I want to cut the rear valance a little more so I can get a steeper angle on the pipes. I've had them on for a little over a year and I don't think they've gotten all that much louder...maybe I'm just going deaf

[Leon]

Thanks for posting this, maybe we need a dedicated twice pipes thread?

 

Ray, nice work on the pipes, a sound clip would be awesome!

 

I keep going between two exhaust options, since I have to replace my rusty, leaky one. One option is the MSA twice pipes hooked up to a stock manifold. They sound great and are low priced, but fitment issues are a big complaint. Also, I like the horizontal tips but don't like the fact that you have to cut up the stock rear valence in order to fit them. Overall, they still seem like a good value if I install them myself.

 

My second option is using my Clifford header (6-2) and having a set of pipes made, similar to Chris's system. I have access to my buddies MIG but don't trust my welding skills enough to do a proper job. I'm thinking of just going to the shop and getting a quote for a close copy of that system, meaning true duals (or maybe use an X-pipe) with four glasspacks, two by the driveshaft and two at the end. The header has twin 60mm collectors so I'd probably go with 2" or 2.25" pipes. When I decide and get it done, I'll be sure to post something up.

 

Again, thanks for the thorough write-up and everyone's input.

[rayaapp2]

...Ray, nice work on the pipes, a sound clip would be awesome!

 

I keep going between two exhaust options, since I have to replace my rusty, leaky one. One option is the MSA twice pipes hooked up to a stock manifold. They sound great and are low priced, but fitment issues are a big complaint. Also, I like the horizontal tips but don't like the fact that you have to cut up the stock rear valence in order to fit them. Overall, they still seem like a good value if I install them myself.

...

 

Ill get something posted for sound soon. Most likely on Monday when I get back into town.

 

As for the valance, no I did not have to modify the car to fit the exhaust. I modified the exhaust to fit the car. The valance is intact! I see where you got that from... I just mis-wrote it. If you look at the pictures you can tell the cowl isnt cut.

 

BTW love this sticky : Exhaust Sizing I know you know about it Leon, but its nice to have it available in this post too.

Edited December 11, 2010 by rayaapp2

[rayaapp2]

In my personal opinion the tips need to run vertical and sit in the exhaust slit cut into the rear cowl. So that is what I did. I installed the tips vertical. I need to cut the chrome tips off and re-orientate them now which isnt done and there-fore not included in the above install time. Because I put them vertical the provided mounts on the glass pack assembly would not work. I had to use U-clamps on both sides to mount them where the stock muffler mounts.

 

I meant "Use the factory hole already cut into the cowl". As opposed to laying the exhaust under the cowl completely and having an empty hole where the exhaust should have been which is what it looks like how it was intended to be installed.

Edited December 11, 2010 by rayaapp2

[Leon]

I meant "Use the factory hole already cut into the cowl". As opposed to laying the exhaust under the cowl completely and having an empty hole where the exhaust should have been which is what it looks like how it was intended to be installed.

 

I did notice you changed it up and stacked the tips and solved that problem nicely, but it does take some more work in order to do it as you've shown. The way MSA intends to have the system mounted with the tips arranged horizontally does require cutting unless you want to hang the pipes low and leave that empty hole there. It's a good looking and sounding system, especially for the money, it just takes more work to make it the way you want to make it.

 

As for the sticky, it's a great resource especially when people start throwing the words backpressure and velocity around without knowing the true dynamics involved. I hope it helps!

[rayaapp2]

[Tony D]

Chris' setup goes like the Trust Exhaust from Japan, as well as the stock Z432 Setup---those pipes should utilize the 'double bumps' inthe diffy x member to tuck up tighter, and then exit on either side of the diffy.

 

That MSA ran them under I guess makes sense for someone doing a 280 witout the cutouts. But I like Chris' exhaust much better. I gotta check that out further!

[duragg]

Had my Twice Pipes in for maybe a year now. Its kinda sedate actually.

 

I wish the idle was a little crisper / poppier. But that would make the top end even louder. There is no missing it at WOT now.

 

 

If I remove the glass-packs at the tips I wonder how obnoxious it would be? To me the sound is a little muffled. Slightly unnatural. I could always put them back on (After the big car show tonight...)

[rayaapp2]

Play around with different mufflers and glass pack designs under the car and eventually you can get that crisp sound your looking for and muffle out the high rpm drone you dont want. They key is to doing it without adversely affecting any performance.

 

My glass packs are obnoxiously loud now. Early 90's 4cyl camry SS center muffler is straight through and the same pipe diameter. I found one so far. Im going to find another and install them in the trans tunnel and see if that takes the drone out since that seems like what it is designed for. Since Im not harmonic expert Im just trying what I have access to. And that's just one example. Many of todays modern cars have 'pre-mufflers' or what ever you may want to call it. I try and ****** up the SS stuff for longevity. Newer Lexus' and Toyotas have a wide range of these in different lengths and diameters, but pretty much any manufacture out there is going to have something. Its just a matter of fitment on your car and if it 'works' for you.

 

EDIT: REALLY? S>N>A>T>C>H as in to grasp or seize hastily, eagerly, or suddenly.

is blocked!!!? Its not like Im actually referring to womens anatomy here. Seriously? How infantile.

Edited April 14, 2012 by rayaapp2

[duragg]

The little muffler guy next to my shop is not there today so I will have to live through the "Cruise on Central" show with what I have.

 

Will try some other combos tho.

Edited April 14, 2012 by duragg

[Tony D]

George Carlin is in revolt that his "Disney Sentence" is no longer involiate:

 

We're gonna ****** that *****, put it in a box and hop the last train outta town...

[Tony D]

Well one out of three survives the sensors.

 

And ****. It's such a friendly word. Sound like a snack: cheese ****, corn ****, tater ****.... Betcha can't eat just one!

[Tony D]

MAAAAAAAN!

[rayaapp2]

I hope every aspect of my being offends someone out there. If not Im doing something wrong.

Sometimes I think we are really headed towards something like that episode of Family Guy where the FCC comes in and takes over only not so funny. Obama's FCC Gestapo will come in and censor my internet, then my farts, and eventually my thoughts. But that is a tangent for sure.

[rayaapp2]

I hope every aspect of my being offends someone out there. If not Im doing something wrong.

Sometimes I think we are really headed towards something like that episode of Family Guy where the FCC comes in and takes over only not so funny. Obama's FCC Gestapo will come in and censor my internet, then my farts, and eventually my thoughts. But that is a tangent for sure.

 

 

HEY LOOK FARTS doesn't get censored but S>N>A>TC>H does?!! WTF So:

 

I went to the auto parts store and farted in the muffler isle.

vs.

Im going to the auto parts store to ****** a great deal on a muffler.

 

Lets just censor all the words and we wont offend anyone's feelings.

LORD ALMIGHTY WE HAVE ISSUES

Edited April 14, 2012 by rayaapp2