new engine and ECU

[Leon]

You already have the 3.9 diff as well so add a lighter flywheel and you're good to go. The car should feel and go pretty quickly with an otherwise stock setup.

[az240z]

I guess the consensus is that I put P90 on, lightened flywheel and run the stock FI. Forget about the SU's??

[zredbaron]

Leon's right (again? lol) -- a 3.9 and a lightened flywheel alone will make any car considerably zippier than it was before the changes (you're trading top speed for acceleration in the lower gears, hp is obviously not increased).

 

I personally don't know enough about stock EFI or SUs to advise a proper comparison beyond "food for thought," *BUT* I do know that SUs are very capable... capable of much more power than your listed combinations will produce.

 

Check out what Dave Rebello has been able to accomplish with them:

 

Amazing! I have no idea how modified these SUs are (or are not?)... simply pointing out capability when attached to an obviously full race motor. Unless they are installed on a 100% stock 240Z (and even then!), some tuning will obviously be in order.

 

 

I remember back in 1998 I was VERY surprised when I removed triple DCOEs (40s, with 28mm venturis) and put SUs back on (I kept and still have the DCOEs), that my power, engine responsiveness and overall fun factor went UP once I put the SUs back on a 100% stock '72 2.4L 240Z (except for headers/muffler/distributor). That car was so zippy it probably even ran better than my first evolution of a 3.1L stroker with a "performance head and cam" and Electromotive HPV-1 ignition (again, the whole engine has to be on the same page! my 3.1L was obviously not at the time).

 

Bottom line, do you want a computer to handle everything for you, or do you want to tinker with carbs on occasion and be directly involved in every aspect of a nostalgic car? (Much less tinkering on SUs than on triples, of course.) Initially intoxicated by being so manual, I've gotten over the nostalgia factor and want ITBs for ultimate NA performance, but we all have different goals, uses, and budgets that we're willing to devote to our hobby.

 

The beauty of HybridZ is that there usually is no consensus (heck look at the differences between the V8, RBxx, turbo and NA groups alone!). When we all come together, we offer different perspectives from different styles of car-building, and through our collective brain-storming, we equip each other with enough experience and know-how for the thread-starter to figure out how they want to proceed. You obviously can't agree with everything that we've posted on your thread.

 

At the end of the day, it's your car, so it's your personal preference and budget that will decide one way or another. You seem torn. I suggest from personal experience that you sleep on it as long as you need to, perhaps even consult a local shop or two (especially if you plan on involving any of them in your project) and see what their take is independent of our suggestions. Again, grain of salt. My shops often criticize what I've done with the car or what I'm asking them to install, but that's ok; my money is usually still green, and I love my car so that's what matters. I can share that in both the car show and autocross racing worlds, people love nostalgia when it has a personal style to it. As long as it's your style, you'll be proud of it and other people will be drawn to your car no matter what that style is. Especially true for things like "cars and coffee" get-togethers that seem to be sweeping the country and also low-budget performance groups (ie who can get the most performance with the least budget). Very cool groups btw.

 

Learn from fellow HybridZ members, ask your questions, we obviously all love talking about Zs, but hold off on purchasing anything until you figure out how you envision your hot rod! Also, try to discern advice from people who have learned the hard way (like me) and the true subject matter experts (like the engine builders, suspension shop owners/fabricators, etc) and apply our perspectives accordingly.

 

Oh, and when you do figure out what you want and hit the GO button, start a project thread and show us what you're doing, perhaps even send a PM with the link to whichever members on this site that were most influential for you. Good luck!

Edited March 12, 2011 by zredbaron

[az240z]

I went to my storage room this morning and I found 3 heads. All complete but needing rebuilding. There is an E31 with an E30 cam, a P90a with no # cam and an e88 with a no # cam. The cost to rework these would be in the 300-500 range. The cost to add a performance cam to the mn47 would be 500-750.

 

Which brings up the question. MSA strongly recommends all new guts for the head when replacing the cam. Is this necessary and are there less costly solutions than buying from MSA?

[RTz]

The beauty of HybridZ is that there usually is no consensus (heck look at the differences between the V8, RBxx, turbo and NA groups alone!). When we all come together, we offer different perspectives from different styles of car-building, and through our collective brain-storming, we equip each other with enough experience and know-how for the thread-starter to figure out how they want to proceed. You obviously can't agree with everything that we've posted on your thread.

 

Someone get this man a cigar.

 

 

Which brings up the question. MSA strongly recommends all new guts for the head when replacing the cam. Is this necessary and are there less costly solutions than buying from MSA?

 

L-series head building has been covered pretty extensively. Snuggle up to the search engine. You'll find member BRAAP has contributed quite a lot of useful information.

[bradyzq]

Guess I'm going to change the head as 93 octane isn't available here in Phoenix. Race gas is too expensive and mega squirt is too complicated for me. The other choice is to find another engine to install.

 

As a dyno owner and ECU tuner, I just don't understand this approach. Maybe it's a case of "When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail." The solution is always "Get a good ECU and tune!"

 

I would suggest you build the engine you want and mate it to an engine management system that's flexible enough to make it run well. Megasquirt will do this. So will any other standalone ECU that can control ignition and fuel. If it's too complicated for _you_ to implement, find a good ECU/dyno tuning shop in your area and pay them to install and tune it. IMO, mixing and matching engine parts to achieve a setup that will run OK using a 35 year old primitive fuel-only ECU and a distributor with a non-adjustable advance curve (well, aside from shifting the whole curve up or down) is most definitely NOT the smart way to proceed.

 

Probably the most inexpensive way to do it RIGHT is to install a Megasquirt 2 with EDIS-6 ignition from most 90's Fords. With this setup, you ditch the distributor (and air flow meter) completely, and have infinite adjustability of timing and fueling. It is a setup that is well documented (and supported with neat bolt-on adapters etc) elsewhere on hybridz. The Ford parts are inexpensive at a scrapyard, and the Megasquirt isn't expensive either.

 

Regardless of engine setup, a programmable ECU when properly tuned will give even a stock 280Z a performance boost.

[zredbaron]

az240z,

 

If you read this post from start to finish, you'll find that the above two posts are confirmations of advice already given in this thread (plus a few extra details of course) and that your questions and other members' responses are beginning to talk in circles.

 

The above two posts properly redirect you to posts/documentation that have covered your questions in great detail. Start with the L6 sticky threads, they're each a sticky for good reasons. Your head questions are covered in more detail than you could ever reasonably hope for. Some sticky threads are from newbies that have asked the right questions and received enough detailed answers that the thread became a sticky, and some are from the experts in an attempt to provide a one-stop consultation guide for a specific topic given the overwhelming number of repeat questions. I second RTz that the search engine will very easily help you find what you're looking for if one of the sticky threads doesn't cover it.

 

You're at the point where you need to consciously *decide* "how much power you want to spend," and what flavor that power has. We can't do your homework for you, *BUT* when you've done your *all* of your homework and still have a question or two, come back to this thread or start a new one (as appropriate). (I'm not flaming on you, please don't take it as such.)

Edited March 12, 2011 by zredbaron

[Gollum]

Oh, and on the octane note, I'm still running the OE ECU in my L28ET and I run 87 KAMIFORNIA gas. Probably more like other states 85 octane if they sold it.

 

I get away with it only because I'm still running stock boost levels, and I rarely run the engine hard long enough to get the engine heat soaking. If I did then detonation would be a problem on such crappy gas.

 

Going with SU's might be better if you're going for max power, because they can flow more air up top, but the EFI offers nice driveability and more worry-free driving. For the power levels you're looking at, I'd start with the stock EFI since you have it, and see how you like it.

[az240z]

az240z,

 

If you read this post from start to finish, you'll find that the above two posts are confirmations of advice already given in this thread (plus a few extra details of course) and that your questions and other members' responses are beginning to talk in circles.

 

The above two posts properly redirect you to posts/documentation that have covered your questions in great detail. Start with the L6 sticky threads, they're each a sticky for good reasons. Your head questions are covered in more detail than you could ever reasonably hope for. Some sticky threads are from newbies that have asked the right questions and received enough detailed answers that the thread became a sticky, and some are from the experts in an attempt to provide a one-stop consultation guide for a specific topic given the overwhelming number of repeat questions. I second RTz that the search engine will very easily help you find what you're looking for if one of the sticky threads doesn't cover it.

 

You're at the point where you need to consciously *decide* "how much power you want to spend," and what flavor that power has. We can't do your homework for you, *BUT* when you've done your *all* of your homework and still have a question or two, come back to this thread or start a new one (as appropriate). (I'm not flaming on you, please don't take it as such.)

 

No offense taken. I do use search a lot, sometimes finding what I need other times I don't. Your right that I have to decide how much to spend and then decide the carb vs fi. There aren't many shops here that work on the old cars and finding a tuner shop to install a megasquirt or other system could be difficult. I will have to start making some phone calls.

 

 

I want to thank everyone for their input, its greatly appreciated.And in the immortal words of Arnold

"I'LL BE BACK'

[az240z]

the decision has been made, I'm going to switch out the heads and install the p90a. I am going to get it rebuilt and found a machine shop but would like to get in touch with Bryan Blake or 1fastz but he hasn't answered my emails. Does anyone have a phone# .

 

Also looking for a harness from a 1978 z.