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My F20C Swapped Zcar Build Thread

Datsu240z 260z F20 F20C S2000

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#21 mattster03

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 03:24 PM

Love this build! I look forward to a final weight. 

 

The F20C seems like the ultimate out-of-box n/a 4 banger. There was an MKI Ford Escort competing in Targa Newfoundland last year powered by an F20C running through a Qauife sequential gearbox. Unfortunately I had to help the driver out after he rolled it into a telephone poll on a practice stage, but he had it back up and running for competition stages. I would have done horrible things to have that drivetrain setup.  

 

Yes, I too think it might be the best N/A 4cyl out of the box.  I do think just from the inntial reactions from people outside this community that it is a little frowned upon to be putting 4cyl where 6cyl belongs and a Honda engine instead of a Nissan/Datsun, but I guess it is different and for me this project is all about the driveability and fun factor and you just cant beat that butter-smooth 6 speed and 9K redline when it comes to the F20C.



#22 CasperIV

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 04:01 PM

Thanks for the pictures... very helpful.  I think that the F20C mounts are about 1-2" further forward than SR's from what I have seen in pictures; tough to say for sure because it could also depend on how close you run the either engine to the firewall.  I may just end up doing the cradle setup, but I would like to try the bridge mount design for fun, I have a lot of manufacturing capabilities thanks to the place where I work (3D CAD, Laser, press brake, etc.).  I am very excited to get the engine and transmission all mounted up; that will be a great milestone in the project.

 

It's always worth trying something new. No matter what design you do, with tools like that on hand you will be able to make a nicer unit than what you can buy off the shelf. Good luck!


Life Lesson: Those who yell the loudest rarely have anything important to say... unless their hand is closed in your door.

http://www.sr240z.net/


#23 helghast7

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 08:59 PM

Wow, v8 swapped a CYM, I'm sure you got lots of love from the pricks on 7club lol. Welcome to the happy forum, where innovation is encouraged rather than just walking the line. Looks good so far, can't wait to see it running.



#24 Sideways

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 11:06 PM

Here are the L26 and F20C side-by-side.  Quite a size difference, I hope to find a way to weigh them before this is all over, but I'm guessing right around 150lbs difference?
 

fwiw, if memory serves me correctly- Completely dressed L-series engines with transmissions weigh in just under 500 pounds (Give or take depending on the extra bits).  About 7X pounds and change for the transmissions, and about 42X pounds for the engine.  f20cs are about 460-470 pounds fully dressed with transmission.

Btw- LOVE this swap.  Ive actually got a kit to mount one of these in my 86 corolla.  Its been a dream engine of mine for a long, *long* time.  Im just waiting to pull the trigger on getting a engine.  My cars are stateside and I live in australia now, but i still get to them a few times a year.  Soon enough, hopefully.  Looking forward to the progress of this.



#25 mattster03

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 08:30 PM

fwiw, if memory serves me correctly- Completely dressed L-series engines with transmissions weigh in just under 500 pounds (Give or take depending on the extra bits).  About 7X pounds and change for the transmissions, and about 42X pounds for the engine.  f20cs are about 460-470 pounds fully dressed with transmission.

Btw- LOVE this swap.  Ive actually got a kit to mount one of these in my 86 corolla.  Its been a dream engine of mine for a long, *long* time.  Im just waiting to pull the trigger on getting a engine.  My cars are stateside and I live in australia now, but i still get to them a few times a year.  Soon enough, hopefully.  Looking forward to the progress of this.

 

Well that would be a bit dissapointing if there was only 30-40lbs difference...  I suppose the 6 speed vs. 4 speed is going to bring the weights of the two full pullouts a lot closer



#26 CarJway

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 08:56 PM

I've been intending on this swap for months. Glad to see someone else doing it, and taking pictures. Good luck, and keep the thread updated!


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#27 Sideways

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 01:29 AM

Well that would be a bit dissapointing if there was only 30-40lbs difference...  I suppose the 6 speed vs. 4 speed is going to bring the weights of the two full pullouts a lot closer

The f20s are surprisingly big engines all things said and done.  Its interesting installing them into the rollas, most people use sub frame spacers to clearance the engine and the hood- Then take a sledge to the transmission tunnel to persuade it a bit further.  But like you noted, BRILLIANT 6 speed transmission (god they feel amazing to shift), and keep in mind how much further back that chunk of weight will be sitting (Depending on where you put it).  Think youll be happy with the 200'ish whp youre looking at making, or do you intend to boost/modify it much?  Theres some pretty nifty turbo and supercharger kits available for the engines.  Its pretty easy for them to see 300 whp with very little effort and really bring them to life.



#28 mattster03

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 06:36 AM

The f20s are surprisingly big engines all things said and done.  Its interesting installing them into the rollas, most people use sub frame spacers to clearance the engine and the hood- Then take a sledge to the transmission tunnel to persuade it a bit further.  But like you noted, BRILLIANT 6 speed transmission (god they feel amazing to shift), and keep in mind how much further back that chunk of weight will be sitting (Depending on where you put it).  Think youll be happy with the 200'ish whp youre looking at making, or do you intend to boost/modify it much?  Theres some pretty nifty turbo and supercharger kits available for the engines.  Its pretty easy for them to see 300 whp with very little effort and really bring them to life.

 

Yeah, you are right, the weight will be significantly further back which will be a nice little bonus for sure.  It seems as if it will have no problem fitting completely behind the stock engine subframe and clear the tunnel with no problem.  The plan for my "phase 1" is to just run it N/A; but once I get that phase completed I will start thinking about boost; I think that a supercharger package will fit very similarly to S2000 kits, but I would much prefer a nice little Precision 30mm turbo for a nice little boost in power.



#29 logr

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 07:34 AM

Nice swap thread. A friend had an F20 in an AE86. I drove it a few times at autox. Good thing the Z has more engine bay as it was a tight fit in the toy. I liked the engine but the power builds rather than hitting hard and I am a turbo guy now a days so I'm betting the turbo will be sooner rather than later.

 

I was surprised on not losing more weight when I put the SR in my Z. It did however end up with 52% on the back tires(with me in it) which is a good thing.

 

Keep us informed please.


It's not the length of your crank that counts, it's the power of your stroke.


#30 CasperIV

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 06:20 AM

Turbo systems add a lot of weight that people don't think about. Take your intercooler, turbo, piping, larger exhaust, etc, and toss it all on a scale. Then there are all the other items that get heavier due to the extra power like brakes, wheels and tires, driveline, diff, transmission, suspension, etc. It adds up pretty quick. It's one of the reasons going from NA to turbo isn't worth it unless you are going to be trying to gain a reasonable amount of power. I often wonder how much weight I could save on my SR if I went with an EFR turbo, titanium manifold and exhaust, and changed to a short v-mount IC... anyone want to give me money to try it out? ;)

 

The F20 is a good candidate for either boosting option. It just depends on what you want. If you aren't adding a lot of power or don't care about constantly pushing the limit up, the supercharger is probably a better option. It's less complex, lighter, and has less peripherals involved. I never did decide how I wanted to boost my S2000. After driving a few turbo S2000s and a couple supercharged ones, I kept going back and fourth. I liked the instant response of the small turbo cars, but I could get the same from the superchargers with less weight. I liked the pull of the larger turbo cars, but I hated the loss of response and general slowness during transitional periods. Either way you go I'm sure you will be happy as long as you don't melt a piston.


Edited by CasperIV, 05 June 2014 - 06:37 AM.

Life Lesson: Those who yell the loudest rarely have anything important to say... unless their hand is closed in your door.

http://www.sr240z.net/


#31 Sideways

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 11:41 PM

Turbo systems add a lot of weight that people don't think about. Take your intercooler, turbo, piping, larger exhaust, etc, and toss it all on a scale. Then there are all the other items that get heavier due to the extra power like brakes, wheels and tires, driveline, diff, transmission, suspension, etc. It adds up pretty quick. It's one of the reasons going from NA to turbo isn't worth it unless you are going to be trying to gain a reasonable amount of power. I often wonder how much weight I could save on my SR if I went with an EFR turbo, titanium manifold and exhaust, and changed to a short v-mount IC... anyone want to give me money to try it out? ;)

I get what youre saying, buuut iunno how inclined i am to agree. But I guess it depends on how much is a "reasonable" amount of power to you.  You could add 200 pounds to a 2200 pound car making 200 hp, increase the power by only 50 hp, and have a notably faster car.  It really doesnt take a low of power to offset the weight, within reason.  The trickier bit imo is the downside to handling. 



#32 johnc

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 03:51 PM

I'm late to this... The stock engine crank centerline in the S30 is offset to the passenger side of the car.to line up with the rear diff.  You might be creating a vibration problem by mounting your engine dead center in the engine bay.  Line it up with the diff.


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#33 mattster03

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:53 AM

I'm late to this... The stock engine crank centerline in the S30 is offset to the passenger side of the car.to line up with the rear diff.  You might be creating a vibration problem by mounting your engine dead center in the engine bay.  Line it up with the diff.

 

Wow... thanks for the advice.  I will make sure to align it with the diff rather than centering it in the engine bay!



#34 rturbo 930

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 04:14 PM

Have you made any progress since we last heard from you?


Owen | 1976 280Z | 1988 325is | 1986 Jetta | 1953 CJ3B

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Into this hole, you throw money, which you will never see again.

 


#35 KevinK121

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 09:55 AM

What a sad thread to find abandoned. 

Anyone know what happened with this project?



#36 mattster03

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 09:58 AM

Life happened!  I've still got the car, and make small progress every once in a while.  I do think I'm going to start having a significant amount of time available to start working on this again in the fall.  Sorry to have such a letdown of a build thread thus far!



#37 KevinK121

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 10:24 AM

Life happened!  I've still got the car, and make small progress every once in a while.  I do think I'm going to start having a significant amount of time available to start working on this again in the fall.  Sorry to have such a letdown of a build thread thus far!

Good to see the project wasn't scrapped though! I've recently been bitten by th S30 bug and was along the lines of thinking about doing the L28et swap on an earlier 280z. Coming from the Honda community I think this would be a great idea as well. I was hoping you had at least gotten to the electrical and EMS part being thats I'd be the most worried about haha.

Good to see you and the project are still hopeful though!  Best of luck!!

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Edited by KevinK121, 04 August 2016 - 10:25 AM.


#38 HuD 91gt

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 09:16 PM

Glad to see this is still in the works. I Knabbed the original 260z transmission and a few spare parts off you a couple years back now.


the auto to manual swap was a a success and it's still shifting great! I'm a little skeptical it only has 4800 miles, but maybe they were track miles... 2nd gear can be a bit rough.

Edited by HuD 91gt, 26 August 2016 - 09:19 PM.

1971 240z - Balanced .040 over L28 w/ Ported P90 head - Colt c542.s cam, SU w/SM needles, MSII (ignition)- LS2 Coils Wasted Spark, MSA Premium Exhaust - 6-3-2 Header

 





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