First F20C swap?

[Clifton]

I don't know if the weight saved is worth the money but I would do it over an SR20 any day. If it's for road race and you want to go fast too, I would go with either turbo or more displacement (I like torque). You can make a good handling L powered Z though too.

[LamboZ]

There's been a few 510's with F20C in them, and every one ive seen or been in HAS ripped.

Now those 510's were under 2000lbs, and had alot of money/time put into them.

It would make a great swap, and I have thought about doing it before.

Only concern I had when I thought about doing it was shifter placement.

To really get the most out of the Z handling wise with this motor, you would have to bring that motor as far back as you can, which would bring the shifter in a weird place.

Also there would have to be some tranny tunnel work.

Now all that can be fixed with alittle thought and some beer though.

 

It would make for a nice road racer, thats for sure.

[Careless]

yeah the F20 seems to be a worthy contender with both the N/A 510 and AE86 crowd recently.

 

Definately a worthy contender if considering the SR20.

 

I would probably do it over the SR20 just to have the satisfaction that it's something you don't see every day and is just as well comparable to the SR20.

[Z2000]

I agree with LamboZ and Careless! I was considering the sr20 for a lengthy amount of time but chose f20c because of reliability and N/A hp's.

 

"Example" It seems like any turbo car at the track making 400+ whp is putting down the same times as the N/A cars with 240-270 whp. Even though turbos make huge peak numbers and make chills run down your spine, the reality is that when your going through all your gears as fast as possible the turbo cars fall off pretty hard in between shifts and the N/A cars remain extremely snappy and keep full power between shifts.

 

As for the high rev's, honda changed up the bottom end geometry a bit with a shorter stroke and better rod ratio and bigger bore. This keeps piston speeds down even at 9,000 rpm's and the better rod ratio holds better rod angularity and gives more desirable piston dwell times at tdc and bdc. So we have an engine that rev's to 9,000 rpm's but lasts like its only going to 6,000 or 7,000.

[thehelix112]

"Example" It seems like any turbo car at the track making 400+ whp is putting down the same times as the N/A cars with 240-270 whp. Even though turbos make huge peak numbers and make chills run down your spine, the reality is that when your going through all your gears as fast as possible the turbo cars fall off pretty hard in between shifts and the N/A cars remain extremely snappy and keep full power between shifts.

 

Tis true that horsepower is perhaps not the most important thing in determining lap times (on tight twisty circuits at least).

 

I am not entirely sure where you are getting your information about turbo cars `falling off' between shifts. I would suggest that every race car worth its salt uses flat-shifting, in which case the `fall off' (I presume you are referring to boost drop?) is less than neglible.

 

Dave

[EMWHYR0HEN]

As for the high rev's, honda changed up the bottom end geometry a bit with a shorter stroke and better rod ratio and bigger bore. This keeps piston speeds down even at 9,000 rpm's and the better rod ratio holds better rod angularity and gives more desirable piston dwell times at tdc and bdc. So we have an engine that rev's to 9,000 rpm's but lasts like its only going to 6,000 or 7,000.

 

Don't get me wrong the f20 is a masterpeice of it's own kind. The fact that it can produce a high hp outout and be fuel efficient at the same time makes it great dual purpose engine. However, I think it's torque curve isn't very desirable for a car weighing more than 2000 lbs.

 

I would personally opt for the torquier 2.2L.

 

Just curious, have you ever driven both of the models?

[LamboZ]

Stay way from the AP2 (2.2L motor) models of the S2000's... those motors just suck for driving. the F20C is alot more fun, and usable motor on the track.

[veritech-z]

If you really wanted to be the first to do something cool, do an H22 swap and use this gforce reverse-rotation transmission to convert it to rear wheel drive configuration: http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gf5r-rev.asp

 

Then you could get yourself a nice turbo and be on your way...

[G.I.jonas]

If you really wanted to be the first to do something cool, do an H22 swap and use this gforce reverse-rotation transmission to convert it to rear wheel drive configuration:

 

Wow i never saw those before,i can think of a lot of cool honda toys now.

[FJ 280z]

don't be discouraged, if your going to do the swap, do it with the F22c, im a honda mechanic and i can tell you thats the better engine to go with, more HP, higher compression, and they fixed alot of the problems with the F20c. if you pick up this months issue of super street, they have a s14 (240sx) with a F20 engine in it, turbocharged, looks sweet, alot of people are running that engine in a non-honda RWD platform, just look at the pics of the last japanese classic car show. the f22 is the way to go if you want N/A power, the f20 if you want turbocharged power, ive seen stock head/stock block f20's put out over 400hp with a turbo, full-race has a 650hp turbo kit(with built internals of course). it is sweet,and having the high redline, 6 speed gear box turning those tires is awesome, and in an S30, a hell of a lot better than those sardine can s2000's. good luck and don't forget, post pics....

[pallnet]

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0609turp_honda_f20c_stroker_build/index.html

 

I found this info.

 

In the recent issue of super street there's an S13 with that swap.

[Z2000]

If you really wanted to be the first to do something cool, do an H22 swap and use this gforce reverse-rotation transmission to convert it to rear wheel drive configuration: http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gf5r-rev.asp

 

Then you could get yourself a nice turbo and be on your way...

 

Really it has nothing to do with wanting to be the first. The whole point is about a setup that performs good and gives a well rounded driving experience and is streetable.

 

I do believe it would be a waste of time and lots of money to do your h22 idea and it still wouldnt make the power of the f20c that is rwd already. Plus I have ported many H22 heads in my day and in race trim they max out at about 320 cfm @ 28" water, and the F20c is well above those numbers right out of the box. Now that tells us something about power potental right there...

[Careless]

the turbo fall off thing you speak of, Z2000, is not all that prevalent in cars that are made to operate in the same classes or to compete against eachother, most of the time. Or the ones that are well built for the purpose of making it easier on the driver rather than making the most power.

 

I think the fall off is associated with higher boost levels and lack of compression to provide off-boost torque. But one thing a lot of people assume with turbocharged engines is lag. I can tell you that there are plenty of well put together engine systems that have virtually no lag and no fall off and are not on and off like a lightswitch. they are very linear in the way they make power, and if not for the releasing of all that pressure, you would not notice the turbocharger in any sense.

 

most of the N/A engines making 300 hp that are competing with 400 hp turbo engines have much less weight, and much lower ambient temperatures, which result in cooler intake air and underhood/operating temps. Which in today's performance car market (s2000, 350z, RX8, camaro, mustang), is an important thing, as a lot of people are considering turbocharged performance to be a band-aid, unless one could prove that the engine makes a venerable contender without the addition of all that gadgetry (i.e- more things to go wrong if something breaks, too!).

 

That whole "boost-scare" thing is cool for about 10 minutes, until you realize that you might not go into boost for the better half of the life of the car because you're not sure what's going to happen. I think that's also cool, but also a waste of money.

 

Bring on the F22-Z =)

[veritech-z]

Really it has nothing to do with wanting to be the first. The whole point is about a setup that performs good and gives a well rounded driving experience and is streetable.

 

I do believe it would be a waste of time and lots of money to do your h22 idea and it still wouldnt make the power of the f20c that is rwd already. Plus I have ported many H22 heads in my day and in race trim they max out at about 320 cfm @ 28" water, and the F20c is well above those numbers right out of the box. Now that tells us something about power potental right there...

It's been awhile since i cared about hondas all that much, back when i had a civic (it was a 98 hatch that my parents bought new-yes, i was THAT honda kid...) the H22 was the weapon of choice. It's what powered the first front wheel drive into the 8's in the 1/4 mile, to the tune of something like 700hp if i remember correctly...I should have guessed based on your screen name you were already stuck on the F20C, I've just been dying to see somebody actually use that RWD tranny on something! It would most likely be expensive, I'm sure that tranny alone costs more than I've got in my car, but as for being a waste of time? I'm not so sure. The H22 has a proven record of being capable of big power. So sorry if i misunderstood, i got the vibe that at least part of the goal was to be different, and was pretty sure that not too many people know about that option. good luck with whatever choice you decide to pursue.

[Guest havoc]

an s2000 is quick for the weight.

i saw this somewhere and was shocked!

2000-2003 = 2809lbs

2004-2008 f20c = 2801lbs

2004-2008 f22c1 = 2855lbs

CR/Type S = 2813 (with hardtop), 2765 (without hardtop), + 42lbs for audio and AC

 

instead of letting a freind talk me into a type r, this route seems much more appealing for those (cant get enough!)trackdays. no smog is just icing on the cake in cali.

[Z2000]

an s2000 is quick for the weight.

i saw this somewhere and was shocked!

2000-2003 = 2809lbs

2004-2008 f20c = 2801lbs

2004-2008 f22c1 = 2855lbs

CR/Type S = 2813 (with hardtop), 2765 (without hardtop), + 42lbs for audio and AC

 

instead of letting a freind talk me into a type r, this route seems much more appealing for those (cant get enough!)trackdays. no smog is just icing on the cake in cali.

 

Agreed, a simple fact. The s2000 is already quick for its weight and the setup im planning to run in my z would be around 2,000 lbs give or take a little. Thats like taking a thousand pounds off of a car thats alredy quick, if you catch my drift.

[Z2000]

It's been awhile since i cared about hondas all that much, back when i had a civic (it was a 98 hatch that my parents bought new-yes, i was THAT honda kid...) the H22 was the weapon of choice. It's what powered the first front wheel drive into the 8's in the 1/4 mile, to the tune of something like 700hp if i remember correctly...I should have guessed based on your screen name you were already stuck on the F20C, I've just been dying to see somebody actually use that RWD tranny on something! It would most likely be expensive, I'm sure that tranny alone costs more than I've got in my car, but as for being a waste of time? I'm not so sure. The H22 has a proven record of being capable of big power. So sorry if i misunderstood, i got the vibe that at least part of the goal was to be different, and was pretty sure that not too many people know about that option. good luck with whatever choice you decide to pursue.

 

I wasnt trying to direct that back at you in a bad way bro. I was just pointing out a couple of technical specs that come to mind so often since I'm a cylinder head porter. Plus my outlook was from the N/A point of view and thats where the flow numbers are so curcial.

[Challenger]

What all will you be taking out to get it to 2000#?

[EMWHYR0HEN]

I don't think a s2k setup is going to get you to 2k Lbs.

[V8INtheZ]

I dont think it will get you 2k either. You wont have a very fun street car if you can. I took an engine out of a car that weighs 3400 pounds, and put it into a car that weighs 2400 pounds, so even if I dont lose any more its already 1k pounds lighter. I think your car will weigh more like 2200 pounds, so you will be losing more like 600 pounds. Do you know the actual weight of the engine and transmission you want to use?

 

SBC gets you everything you want from a Z, power, reliability, streetability, and decent gas mileage.