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OBX Differential Inspection and Installation


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#1 TrumpetRhapsody

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 10:12 AM

What follows are my experiences with the OBX unit (part number LSD10528). I still suggest you read through the related threads (HERE and HERE), as they give a more complete overview of the issues/solutions. This writeup is also not in "install" order, so be sure to read through it completely before starting, so you don't miss a step. Additional pictorial guidance can be found on rbryant's writeup.

________________________________________________________________


First thing of note is that due to a copyright issue (assumed?) all of the gears are installed backwards in comparison to the quaife. This causes the axle gears to slam into the bellville washers on accel, presumably causing premature wear and failure.

Here is an illustration of the difference, (pic via batou)
Posted Image

Be sure when swapping all the gears around that BOTH axle circlip grooves are toward the inside of the case. This will ensure both axles will clip in properly.

________________________________________________________________


Second thing of note is the poor quality of the stock bellevelle washers and stock casing bolts. The combination of bolt stretching and the breaking of washers has been known to lead to premature failure in these units.

The solution is to replace these parts. rbryant sells replacement bolts and washers as a package HERE, or you can source your own or reuse the case bolts and get new bellevelle washers HERE.

The actual orientation of the washers IS NOT as important as the final preload once you get everything put back together. The machining tolerances of these units make it impossible to suggest a universal washer orientation. The best advice is to try one, test it, rinse repeat until you get the proper amount of preload. Suggestions for various orientations are littered throughout the two linked OBX threads, so find the one that works best for you.

A good way to quickly estimate the preload is by counting the number of turns on the case bolts. From rbryant's writeup:

The overall goal with the washers is that they get ~.8-1.5mm of preload. The bolts are a 1.25mm pitch so you can tell the preload based on the number of turns on the bolts. From the time that the washers become snug to the time when the case is fully clamped by counting turns on the bolt. One full turn is 1.25mm. This means we want .5 to 1.25 turns from when the washers start to compress until the case is fully clamped down.

Rbryant's original writeup suggestion for the R200 washer orientation DID NOT work for me, so again, measure your preload and pick your own orientation.

Examples of McMaster washer orientations:
John Scott - ())()(()
lbhsbZ - ((()()))
cygnusx1 - ()()(())
EMWHYROHEN - ))))((((
Stock Quaife - )()()()(

Examples of rbryant washer orientations:
())(() - (originally suggested)
)(())( - (what I ended up using)()()()
)()()(

________________________________________________________________


Also, if using a S30 or S130 ring gear, it will use the 10mm ring gear bolts. Some have said it is a good idea to use these spacers (10 needed) to take up the slack in the bolt hole, which was designed for 12mm bolts. If using a 300zx ring gear, it will use the 12mm ring gear bolts, and the spacers will not be necessary.

________________________________________________________________


All other steps pertaining to installing this LSD can be found in your FSM, as it is just like installing any other open carrier. Hopefully you can re-use your stock carrier bearings, as I couldn't find them anywhere for less than $60 EACH.

For ease I will include a few important items below.

Necessary Specs
Suggested backlash: 0.0051"-0.0071" in
10mm Ring gear bolt torque: 43-51 ft/lbs
12mm Ring gear bolt torque: 65-72 ft/lbs
Carrier main cap bolt torque: 65-72 ft/lbs
OBX case bolt torque: 30-36 ft/lbs
Breakaway torque: ~10-15 ft/lbs (.5-1.25 case bolt turns from snug to clamped)
-Chris- ---------Fquick | HBZ Build Thread
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Posted Image
Disclaimer: I often re-edit my posts several times until I'm happy with them. You might want to refresh the page a few times.

#2 Guest_TurboHatch_*

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 10:45 PM

very nice write up, however one bit of required info is needed that is also missing from all the other threads and that is if you use the spacers exactly how long do they need to be cut to as to not interfere with the clamping of the ring gear to the carrier?

#3 cygnusx1

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 06:26 AM

Those McMaster spacers are just right. No cutting needed. ;-)

#4 Bobby_Lee

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 04:29 PM

Hiya Dave,
Did you put new carrier bearings in when ya swapped to the OBX?

#5 nimeton

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 01:27 PM

Hi, little confirmation. This is OBX unit part number LSD10528 is unit that will fit to R200 240SX 240Z 300ZX and old -75 280Z R200 differential? Correct?


Edit, yes I know that this will fit to R200 240SX 240Z 300ZX but I haven´t find complete certainty that this fit to that old long nose R200?

Edited by nimeton, 01 March 2010 - 11:17 PM.


#6 FlatBlack

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Posted 01 March 2010 - 02:24 PM

Hi, little confirmation. This is OBX unit part number LSD10528 is unit that will fit to R200 240SX 240Z 300ZX and old -75 280Z R200 differential? Correct?



It's in the first sentence. Posted Image

What follows are my experiences with the OBX unit (part number LSD10528).


Edited by flatblack280, 01 March 2010 - 02:26 PM.

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#7 FlatBlack

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 10:18 PM

http://rbryant.frees...obx_washers.htm

This link isn't working for me. I tried "html" at the end as well.

Is this just a browser issue for me or is the site down?
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96 S14 KA24DET - E85, MS2E, HLSD, GSP Gen 2 arms, coilovers, TT brakes -new autocross toy

#8 jc8587

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 06:32 AM

From the following thread from clubRSX, the gears are reversed from what you have stated. Is this because the LSD is mounted the opposite way in the RSX?


From: http://forums.clubrs...ad.php?t=520556

Posted Image
Posted Image

From: HybridZ

Posted Image

#9 jc8587

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 06:35 AM

Also, don't you have to press on bearings and shim the LSD (on the axle sides) correctly?

Edited by jc8587, 20 May 2010 - 06:36 AM.


#10 FlatBlack

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 08:00 AM

From the following thread from clubRSX, the gears are reversed from what you have stated. Is this because the LSD is mounted the opposite way in the RSX?


From: http://forums.clubrs...ad.php?t=520556

Posted Image
Posted Image


Maybe because they take the ring gear side off to inspect theirs, and we take off the top side opposite the ring gear?
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#11 jc8587

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 08:57 AM

I didn't notice that at first, now I am trying to visualize that in my head. It would seem the yare going the same way as previously posted here at hybridz.

#12 cygnusx1

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 10:20 AM

It actually depends on the application.  It depends on which way the torque is being applied to the ring gear by the pinion.  The bottom line is that when the car is being thrust forwards, the torque on the ring gear should be forcing the left and right barrel gears away from eachother.  FWD and RWD may require opposite gear arrangements.  If you are putting it in a Z, go with our diagram.  

Edited by cygnusx1, 20 May 2010 - 02:14 PM.


#13 FlatBlack

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 10:25 AM

My OBX was delivered today, hopefully I can crack it open tonight. I'll post pictures of the installation with RBryant's new washer kit.

Edited by flatblack280, 20 May 2010 - 10:25 AM.

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#14 Marc280

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 05:18 PM

I just pulled open my OBX unit last night and the gears were the wrong way around, so it would seem that it is definitely worth checking this. All of the bolts that came with mine were marked as grade 12.9 alhtough I swapped them out for new bolts to be sure that they are quality items. I also swapped the washers with some from RBryant as the quality of the washers does seem pretty poor (you could feel the burrs on the edges of all the washers).
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#15 TrumpetRhapsody

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 06:30 PM

I am disassembling my OBS HLSD as I'm typing this over at Chris'[TrumpetRhapsody] house.

My gears were installed the 'wrong' way, and my washer stack looked like this:

()()(())

*edit* Crap >_< This is FlatBlack BTW

The washer stack suggested on RBryant's website is )()()( [Silver, bigger OD washers in bold]

The silver washers bottomed out on the retainers. After some trial and error, I am using all 7 black washers as ()()()())

Edited by TrumpetRhapsody, 20 May 2010 - 07:06 PM.

-Chris- ---------Fquick | HBZ Build Thread
1974.5 260z -- L28ET -- Holset Hy35 -- MS II v3.1 Extra & EDIS -- 240sx Trans
Posted Image
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#16 jc8587

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 03:50 AM

It actually depends on the application.  It depends on which way the torque is being applied to the ring gear by the pinion.  The bottom line is that when the car is being thrust forwards, the torque on the ring gear should be forcing the left and right barrel gears away from eachother.  FWD and RWD may require opposite gear arrangements.  If you are putting it in a Z, go with our diagram.  



Actually its going in my Subaru WRX 5MT.

Can you explain an easy way to tell where the force will be appled to the barrel gears?

Thanks.

#17 FlatBlack

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:25 AM

Actually its going in my Subaru WRX 5MT.

Can you explain an easy way to tell where the force will be appled to the barrel gears?

Thanks.


I've never opened up a 5MT, try to find some pictures of one open through google or whatever.

Look at what side of the diff the ring gear is on as it sits in the tranny. You know which way the axles turn on acceleration, so that should be pretty easy to figure out once you figure out how that thing sits in there.

Good luck. Once again, please post pictures as I'll be doing that to my Impreza after it gets MegaSkeet and a WRX terbeaux setup.

Pictures!!

This table should look familiar :D

Posted Image

The "deluxe" upgrade kit. I got the washers, bolts, and 10mm to 12mm sleeves for the ring gear.

Posted Image

It comes with seven [7] smaller, black washers, and two [2] larger, silver 'retainer' washers.

Posted Image

WRONG!!

Posted Image

This was the washer stack that came with my OBX. Order is listed above in my post under TR's name

Posted Image

After flipping the gears

Posted Image

New washer stack. I ended up using all 7 smaller, black washers, as well as the 2 silver, larger washers.

Posted Image

Edited by flatblack280, 21 May 2010 - 05:31 AM.

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#18 FlatBlack

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:36 AM

FYI, here is my correspondence with Rich [RBryant]:

Mat,

I was having trouble with many of the differentials where the center retainers weren't fully surrounding the washer stack.

When that happened the center two washers could missalign and cause the stack to collapse. I tried to make a stack that contained the washers by using them ())(() but I had to use thicker than normal washers and the stack was a little too short. In order to solve that issue I am including two larger washers in the new kits that are for the center of the stack and actually are retained by the case rather than the retainer. They also hold the smaller washers in place because of the way they engage. This was rare but I want a solution that works for everyone in both the common and rare machining tolerances of the OBX LSD.

I updated the webpage a while back to describe this change (search for R200 in the page).
http://rbryant.frees...obx_washers.htm

For the time being I am also including enough washers so that if the retainer is able to surround the stack (which I don't think any of them are) you can use all small washers. If you use the larger two washers you will have some of the small ones left over. Hopefully that doesn't make things too confusing...

I think at the time TrumpetRhapsody got them I was using some thicker washers which worked ok but I think that even he said the stack was shorter than he would have liked.

Your washers are a little bit thinner than the previous ones but they are also chrome vandium which makes them even stronger.

I am just trying to improve things. The latest configuration has been tested by another R200 differential customer and I believe that you will find it to be superior.

-Rich

**IMPORTANT:** [This was the case with my OBX unit]

Just make sure that the large washers are not touching the edges of the retainers. The smaller washers need to be what is contacting the large ones. The retainers themselves should not touch the larger washers.

If your retainers are longer and touch the large washers then you can just use all small washers (that hasn't happened to anyone yet but I included extra small washers just in case).

Thanks and sorry for any confusion on this. Given that your roommate tried the other configuration I am interested in hearing his thoughts on which is better. Ironically I think it was actually one of his comments on a forum that prompted me to change what I provide.

-Rich

Thanks for all of the R&D and for offering these kits, Rich! It's very nice to get quick replies back to questions. The shipping was also very quick.

*Also:*

Be sure when swapping all the gears around that BOTH axle circlip grooves are toward the inside of the case. This will ensure both axles will clip in properly.


Remember to do this as well, if your gears came in the improper orientation, you will need to switch [and flip] the 'top' gear with the 'bottom' gear. The circlip grooves will be towards the inside of the case if you've done it properly.

Edited by flatblack280, 21 May 2010 - 05:48 AM.

05 Subaru Forester XT - STi swapped - DD
96 S14 KA24DET - E85, MS2E, HLSD, GSP Gen 2 arms, coilovers, TT brakes -new autocross toy

#19 jc8587

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 09:00 AM

Here are some photos of the 5MT with an OBX in it, but it doesnt show the orientation of the gears:

Posted Image

Posted Image


As you can see, the axle splines are on the diff itself, as the axles do not clip in, but are attached via compression pins.

Will I need to shim the diff, from side to side, axle to axle? Shimming the bearings I mean?

As you can see in the photo, the bearing looks to be pressed on all the way to the housing.

Will I need new bearing for the axle shafts?

New seals?


I also have the kit from RBryant. I hope that hardware works!

Edited by jc8587, 21 May 2010 - 09:01 AM.


#20 The Woj

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 09:20 AM

Crap, so I just rebuilt the OBX and had the bearings rebuilt and bolted back together by a diff shop - but I checked the pic's of my teardown and the gears are in the wrong direction. How bad would it be to run with the gears turning the wrong way?

I actually tried to remove the carrier since the shop put it in, but could not get it out (I forgot to put the circlips in, but I managed to get them in from the sides).
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