tonycharger72

Yeah thought about that - going to have the exhaust pointing forward and exit out the front of the car , just kidding!!! The stock exhaust manifolds are kinda like "logs" that run down the length of the block and shoot of into the engine, Before I could put the engine into the car originally I had to cut the exhaust to cat converter flanges off as they hit the TC buckets, These new "TC buckets: (can't think of what else to call them ) are higher as they sit above the chassis rails, not just in line with it like the originals but they are sloped back - so the Log style exhaust manifolds should run over the top of the brackets and then I can right angle in down under the car and out of the engine bay! I think I will struggle to run extractors - stock exhaust shouldn't be to much of a drama, but extractors would be interesting, however, even with the car stock running extractors in there was going to be interesting !!!

Yes, rack behind the crossmember makes engine fitiment really, really tricky but was also worried about the increase in track - actually the track really stuffs me around! I am limited to 25mm increase total for road registered car, so this rules out the S13/14 gear - I guess I could have looked at adpating the LCA's, struts and TC Rods from the S13/14 onto my Crossmember, but sure would have been interesting to connect up the steering knuckle to my front mounted steering rack !!! I know hey, even a quick search on EBAY and there is lots of S4/5 RX7 stuff floating around!!! - Thats why I am going to try really hard to stuff the entire RX7 front suspension under my car, lots of stuff for S4/5 RX7's !!! Oh okay, It kinda sucks, I have found it very difficult locally to get my hands on upper control arms, struts or spindle for the S4/5 RX7 - Even vieiwing the suspension setup and mounting points has been difficult, only been able to crawl under a friends car! Really need to get my hands on chassis diagrams and the complete front suspension from the RX7 before I will know how to move forward with this! Ideally I would run the upper control arms and retain the stock Z strut top and shock towers - in the long run that would probably be a better solution then grafting in shock towers from some other car!

Mainly pre-occupied with strength, be an awful shame if the engine took a spill out of the engine bay - but it's tough to say how much of an increase in weight there has been, the the RX7 LCA's are alluminium and most likely weight less than the stock Z LCA and TC Rod, the rear LCA mount's probably weigh double what the original TC bucket would have weighed and then there is the addition of the front to rear bracing for the engine mounts, that would add a kilo or two, I will have to weigh it to see how much more weight has been added! I dont know................. Nah, was thinking there is a few options, JohnC's bolt in adjustable strut-tops, give me about a degree of movement Or..............really go to town, the RX7's caster is apparently adjusted through the strut tops as they have lots more room in the strut tower - so I could get rid of my exisiting strut towers and graft in some body work from the RX7 or just make new ones, the R31 Skyline also has massive strut towers, they are alot more plentiful than S4/S5 RX7's!!! This would give me freedom of movement for my strut's, Then I could possibly run the entire front suspension from the RX7, upper control arms included or just stick with one Control Arm and a Strut, The only issue with me running upper control arms is the 1UZ, is wide so it overhands the chassis rails a little bit, this will probably interfere with the Upper Control Arm mounting points on the inner fender walls - If I was running a straight 4/6 would be a lot easier!!! I need to lay my hands on some S4/S5 chassis diagrams, like the ones floating around in this forum of the 240-260-280z chassis, that would tell me if this is a possible option with my engine choice! 2nd option is a lot work though..........but I have come this far, why not really go nuts!!!

Sweet, Gasless really does make it a lot trickier !!! Make sure you go really nice and slow - also check out my frame rails replacement thread in this sub-forum, fellow gave me some good advice about keeping it all cool when welding!!!

Ok guys, went out last weekend and grabbed some S4/S5 RX7 Lower Control arms and whipped up a crossmember to suit, These RX7 LCA's appear to be different than the USA version as the ball-joints are not detachable, these are all one solid piece - having that area detachable would probably make it a lot easier to get a suitable ball-joint, however will have to wait a see! The new crossmember bolts in front and rear using M10x1.25 bolts, The engine will be mounted of the Front to Back cross-bracing! Shot of the LCA, Rear LCA Housing, Have to throw in a few more gussets and hopefully, if there is room, a cross-brace between the two rear LCA housing's - won't know if that is possible until I fit the engine in!

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=135675 And in the last thread there is this link, http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/tutorial.htm Guy does a tutorial on installing new floor pans!!!

Not lucky, more of a miracle !!! Thats 241.3mm (approx) of wheel stuffed under the front of your Z!!! With 116.5mm of Forward Spacing & 124.5mm of Back-Spacing, you should have clearance issues with your struts and wheels should be poking out past your guards, I remember I ran a 17x7 with 20p offset on my stock suspension Z and could just squeeze a piece of paper between the wheel and the strut tower on the fronts - that was with 120mm of backspacing, stuffed if I know how you squeeze 124mm of backspacing under a Z without interference on the strut towers or not have the wheels slap into the chassis rails near lock!!! Maybe I got the raw end of the stick with my Z !!!

Run the 205's on a 7" rim, may as well...........and run a 15p offset, you will have strut clearance, inner guard clearance and not f#ck with your track!!! You look like you are running at stock ride height, like I was when I ran 17x8" rims with 6p offset, wheels only rubed at close to full-lock on the fronts, but did poke past the guards, never rubbed on the guards - on the rears they only rubbed when I when over a big bump, honestly, yours look like they poke past the guards too, but you might not have much of an issue as there is quite a lot of clearance between the top of your wheels and the guard lip, just like mine were ! If you are running stock suspension and stock ride height you can slap on a set of 8" rims, but you WILL have the issue of the wheels poking out past the guards or run into clearance issues with the chassis rails, plus when I increased my track that much the car felt like sh#t!!! Seriously, it really is a struggle to stuff 8" rims under the front of a Z!!! And if I think you define "fit" by clearing the inner guard lips and chassis rails then an 8" rim don't fit under the front of a Z!!!

Sorry, my reply had a touch of frustration thrown in there, I was awfully unimpressed when I falked out $1600 on wheels and tyres and they didnt fit properly...........was not the funnest experience ! Yes it is 240tt, think with a bit of neg camber and about 10-15p offset you could get 8" under the guards and clear the chassis rails at lock - but that really is a guess, My personal experience is 8" really is to wide at the front of a zed unless you deal with the wheels just poking out of the guards or run a higher positive offset and deal with the wheels hitting the chassis rails, I didnt mention, that with the 8" rim and 235/45-17 tyres and then 215/45-17 tyres and 6p offset my wheels not only poked out of the guards, but at full-lock the bloody things rubbed on the chassis rails, I had to put a stop on the rack to get it over rego and scew in some rubber mud flaps onto the inner guard lip (like you see on FWD's) so my "guards" covered the outside of the wheel - gave the Z an interesting look ! I was told repeatedly that 8" rims would fit onto my Z at the front if I ran a close to 0 offset, but honestly don't see that that is correct, unless my Z is different from others................ Local wheel manufacturer in Australia called Simmons makes 3-piece wheels, they have told me they have supplied lots of wheels for Z's and told me I wont get more than a 7" rim under my Z, not unless I would like to deal with rims poking out past the guards or have my wheels rubbing on the chassis rails, I ran my 8" rims for about 9-10mths on my car (I took of the mud-flaps when I was through rego) and with stock ride height I was able to drive around in the car, only when I went over a big bump did the rear tyres rub, Therefore, 8" rim does fit - but if by "fit" you mean the wheels are completely under the guard lip and clear the chassis rails, I really don't think they do! Think your better of with 7" front and 8" out back !

Hhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm, interesting - In my personal experience, there is no way, absolutely none what-so-ever that you will squeeze an 8" wide rim under the front of the Z, well not stock suspension anyways...... You either end up with wheel outside the guard lip or run about a 25p offset and have your wheels slapping into the chassis before full lock, I have measured, measured and measured again and I have 115mm of backspacing and approximately 90mm of forward spacing before I hit the inner lip of the guard (100mm if you include the outter lip), its a little bit different on the other side of the car, but close enough to that - thats a max total of 215mm, good 10mm short of your average 8" rim - certainly gain more backspacing with smaller OD coilovers, For visual proof, this is what an 8" rim, 6p offset and 235/45-17 tyres looked like on my Z, good 10-15mm outside the outter lip of the guard, If you run smaller OD coilovers you can run a higher positive offset, around 25p and you should get the 8" rims stuffed underneath the car but you will struggle to get full steering lock as the wheels will wack into the chassis rails!

Wow, that car looks awesome.............love that chopped top look, what did you do for those quarter vent windows? with the roof-line lowered? I came across some pics of a guy who cut out a triangle section in the C-Pillars and then re-joined the roof so it looked a lot like yours, the rear glass would still fit, but didn't show any pics of how he dealt with the rear quarter venter glass, Thanks for that Jack, didnt think of adding a brace there - think that would be a great idea coming down of the strut towers, I was just going to tack all around the strut supports on the inner fender's, but having it link up with the chassis seems like it would make that area a lot stronger, particulary as I will be hacking a nice hole into the chassis rails right there!!! I have decided to go with a smaller mouth opening for the crossmember bolt holes into the chassis rails - I will throw some pics up soon of what I have come up with!!!

Thanks for the information mate, had a really good look at what that fellow did on Newcastle Z cars! Really clever the way he did that conversion! Closed up the end of the Z LCA and made it suit the RX7 ball-joint so he could use the RX7 spindle & Struts (I assume stock RX7 ball-joints), then modified the top of the RX7 struts to suit the Z strut tops! And he has climate control in his Z !!! Think that is 1978-85 RX7 gear, pretty much the same sorta of stuff that is the Datsun stock, I was thinking of the A-Arm and TC Rod being one solid piece, like the Series 4/5 RX7, I think I have figured it out though, I will build a very similar setup to that 450z fellow from the link Fastzcars/Dayz posted using the S4/5 RX7 Arms!

Hehehehehe, , no this isn't for me unfortunately.............well probably not.......I do change my mind an awful lot! I am constructing a crossmember so I can use the RX7 Series 4/5 Lower Control arms, so I guess it probably wouldnt be that big a jump to using the upper arms and struts as well, just worried that the Engineer may say yes and Rego f#ck me over, apparently they do that quite a bit in the ACT!!! But honestly, the R32 cradle may be self contained but it is not exactly a bolt in fit, don't know what is exactly required for it to mount up under a 280zx, but a lot of meat needs hacking away underneath the S30 - then if you don't mind a 5" track increase you will have to section the cradle and glue it back together again - reckon you probably need a jig for that part! Making a new crossmember, which is really just an extension of the old one so the TC pivots are incorporated and some mounting points for your upper a-arms does seems like it would involve a lot less work then installing an R32/S13/S14 rear end, particulary if you were able to use upper/lower control arms, spindle's, hubs and struts from the RX7,

Sorry - the stuff I have measured from the RX7 is shorter , The MX5 lower arms are really long, the Lexus stuff looks very wide to me - the RX7 lower arms are almost the same length as the Z lower arms, about 300mm instead of around 285-290mm, Also the Lower Control Arms from the Mazda will bolt into the Z crossmember with the help of two 2mm washers (the LCA/Part mount is 60mm as opposed to the Z's 64mm width), Then you just away with the TC bucket and make a mount to suit the rear of the RX7 control arm, Then you would most likely just install some sort of reinforcement on the inner side of the guards, then mount a couple of clevis's to hold the Upper Control arms of the RX7 in place, Then mount in the struts, a fellow in Australia seems to have modified the RX7 strut tower to mate the Z strut tops in place, So hey-presto, double-A Arms that maintain close to original track width and geometry, Seems a bit easier, in theory, than hacking up the chassis rails for the Miata or Lexus stuff

It does certainly look that way, this is from a Series 6 I think, maybe its more like the Z in the series 4/5, local Rotary/RX7 guy told me about the upper arms being more of a brace, so besides really early RX7 suspension (which from memory looks pretty much the same as stock Z stuff) and that picture, I have limited first hand knowledge, However, even if the Scrub isn't controlled via the top of the strut tube and its just there to keep the car at height, the design still looks very adaptable to the Z just because of the mountings for the upper arms - I will have to look at a late 80's, early 90's RX7 and see what the upper-control arm mounting points look like!

I think this might be a more likely candiate for a double A-Arm setup - its from an Rx7 - I think the scrub radius is still determined via the top of the strut, not the upper ball-joint - the upper arms kinda hang and would be just bolted up to the inner guards, so would be able to avoid creating new chassis rails, just reinforce the inner guards where the upper arms would be bolted to!

All you have to do is have a good look at the Z suspension, a crossmember from a Double A-Arm car and you will quickly see there are some challenges involved !!! But your right, something like this wouldn't be like slotting your LCA pivots, But for the folks who have installed R32/S13/S14 rear ends, I really don't think there is that much more involved as far as fabrication is concerned, providing you can find a suitable donor car so you are not fabricating everything from scratch!!!

Thanks for the advice AK-Z, I dont know if I will bother stiching up the rest of the floor pans, but I still need to install my new engine bay chassis rails and properly connect up the rear section of the chassis rails to the rear subrame area, I will give it go for sure, be good to limit warpage and also speed up the process a bit, whilst connecting up all the welds!!!

I have used Sicalfex (I have no idea how its spelled either ) but had a pretty ordinary experience with it, maybe I was using it in the wrong areas, the little bit between the drip rails and roof...........but it cracked and cracked pretty quickly!!! There is other stuff made by Locktite - supposed to be used by Holden (GM) and Ford locally on all their new cars, so I will give that a crack!!! I don't know if I will finish of the beads - I got a bit of warpage already and I really took my time with this - I tacked the frame rails on one day and then welded them up on another, took me an entire day to run those intermitant beads - but still got some warpage! Doesn't cooling the beads that quickly make them brittle or does waiting 3-4sec's stop that? I literally learn't to weld 3-4mths ago, so still lots to learn !!!

I just went and measured the distance between the Subaru Lower Control arms - this was from a mid-90's Legacy, 685mm between Lower Control Arm Pivot points - oh dear............. I also measured the distance on a Mazda Miata MX5 crossmember - the distance there was 635mm, but that was the inner most edge (not the centre of the bolt), the reason for this is that the Miata crossmember LCA pivot points are slotted for Camber Adjustment, holes are 25-30mm wide, But could take an estimate - use 12mm bolts, divide by 2 to get the centreline - 635 + 12 = 647mm approximately!!! Either option in their stock form is way, way, way to wide! A different rack-end will possibly make it easier to move the pivot point in because the housing isn't as big, but either way you will have to remove meat from the end of either rack to get it back down to the 597-600mm width of the Z LCA Rack & Pivot Points!!! However, the MX5 rack does not taper at the rack ends like the Subaru one does, it would be a lot easier to hack off the required amount and simply rethread to suit an appropriate rack-end, with the MX5 rack there would still be just as much meat on the side-walls of the rack-end that the factory deemed was appropriate, seems like a safer bet....................

They look like stock ZG Flares and the wheels look like they properly fill them out, as in they are WIDE, no spacers used there, therefore would estimate, Front wheel 8.5-9" rim with -7 to -9 offset Rear Wheel 9.5-10" rim with -17 to -20 offset, There abouts anyways - those offsets should work with the ZG flares and stock suspension at any rate

I did, thats why I asked, Because it doesnt look necessary, even with the extra width of VH45, think it would fit within the chassis rails without the TC bucket in place - then u could mount the A-Arm underneath the chassis rails, not on the outbound side of the chassis rails.............however never tried to fit a VH45 so this fellow would be the expert!!! Also he had to use a pretty crazy steering rack coupling, so sure that had something to do with it as well!!!

Thanks for the link FastZcars! Some really good information there! I wonder why that fellow mounted the LCA pivot points so much further outbound...............have to track that guy down me thinks! Also Mitsubishi have made more than one different car, would be interesting to find that ball-joint without more information ! This is my first attempt at solving this one - basically keep the stock TC locating, just open up engine mount area on the chassis rails and make a wider crossmember, Looked like sh#t ! The bits under the chassis rails would be were I am mounting my engine, not all that keen on slapping stuff onto this area, looks messy and it would annoy me, so would end up just pulling it all out and doing it again anyways ! I figured I would lose camber adjustment at the TC pivot, but thought I might have a little bit more space up in the strut tower to modify caster, did not realise it was that tight up there................ What about if I change the crossmember design slightly, basically replicate what the TC buckets are doing now? this would also mean just using stock LCA and TC rod, but then I would have the adjustability I would lose with a single unit, Sorry, this is a really crude drawing

Thats exactly it!!! More information please , Are you using the stock Z ball-joint? got any more pics inside the engine bay of the subframe? where does the TC control arm pivot sit in relation to the old Rod End? Would be a lot easier if I don't have to make my own control arm!!!

An extremely helpful site for MIG welding !!! Quick and easy tutorials to get you started!!! http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/tutorial.htm