boardkid280z

You can just pull out a spark plug and shove a bunch of rope into a cylinder, then when you try and loosen the bolts the rope will keep the motor from turning.

Congrats! way to represent too bad you're getting rid of the Z body,

read this:

Here are some threads I found. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=145115&highlight=variable+geometry http://www.turbotalk.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4 Search for variable geometry or VGT, I believe there is more info on this website, and I am sure there is more out there on the web for other applications (see DSM above, and I saw a reference to a Mustang too)

Has anyone "tries missing"? Do you mean "tried messing"? You might want to spell check your posts and titles. First word of your message should be "As" not "A". And yes, there has been at least one attempt at using the electronically controlled vein turbo. You might search zcar.com. I can't remember if I saw it here or there. Of course you'll probably have better luck googling it since you'll get a much larger search base that way, not necessarily someone with a Z.

Notes about the post: I feel like I wasn't very successful in formatting my post inside the constraints of a vBulletin forum format - if any moderators see changes they can make to the formatting to make the information more clear, please go ahead. If anyone sees anything that is incorrect/questionable, you can post to let me know, or you might just send me a private message so I can change it without cluttering up the thread. Options for additional information: Making an adjusted graph for more efficient motors (higher VE = more displacement, cams to increase VE, more boost, more RPMs, aftermarket intake, ported head). These graphs would have both the "knee" point and the redline point shifted to the right on the map for each boost plot. I was thinking of using a VE of .90 instead of the .80 I used for the stock motor, what do you guys think of that? Trying to place the max torque point in the middle of the high efficiency island. (matching turbos to specific applications) Adding a higher boost line, or consolidating the boost lines to 10, 20 and 30psi – maybe not necessary because it seems these turbos lose efficiency above pressure ratios of 2.7 (25psi) Comparing the compressor maps to the different turbine maps available for each compressor and adjusting the plots according to the flow expectations for higher/lower flowing turbines – adjusting knees according to A/R and turbine flow. Smaller turbines, quicker spool, knees closer to the surge line, and vice versa.

L28ET Engine Air Flow and Turbo Compressor Maps Modified for Garrett ball bearing GT turbos by Matthew Brazle (boardkid280z) Originally sourced from: http://www.mygen.com/users/dbruce/myz31/TurboMaps/L28ET%20Engine%20Air%20Flow%20and%20Turbo%20Compressor%20Maps.htm Author: Daniel Bruce Calculations (see source page) Air Flow Data in Table Form for different levels of boost: (both cfm and lbs/min) Pressure - cfm______Pressure - lbs/min @ 6500rpm 1.68 bar - 424.73cfm - 10psi - 29.35lbs/min 2.09 bar - 527.90cfm - 16psi - 36.48lbs/min 2.36 bar - 596.69cfm - 20psi - 41.23lbs/min 2.70 bar - 682.50cfm - 25psi - 47.18lbs/min cfm ----------- lbs/min @ 20% of Redline Flow 84.95cfm - 5.87lbs/min 105.58cfm - 7.30lbs/min 119.34cfm - 8.25lbs/min 136.50cfm - 9.44lbs/min (Calculated L28ET air flow in lbs/min using Ev 0.80) The plotted color lines show L28ET air flow in lbs/min at 10, 16, 20 and 25psi (1.68 / 2.09 / 2.36 / 2.7bar) of boost far right end points are at max boost and redline (6500rpm) "knees" are ~half way to redline when full boost hits (3750rpm). note: this is an arbitrary point and is dependent on A/R ratio. I moved it from 3250 to 3750 since this seems more realistic for full boost for these aftermarket turbos far left "start" point is 20% of redline flow and pressure ratio of 1bar. note: this is also arbitrary Here is a list of the turbos and their compressor maps on this page: Turbo____ (Ind ______Exd____ trim _A/R)____Application Recommendation GT2876R (52.7mm 76.0mm 48 0.70) [Horsepower 280 – 480; Displacement 1.8L - 3.0L] GT3071R (53.1mm 71.0mm 56 -) [Horsepower 300 – 460; Displacement 1.8L - 3.0L] GT3076R (57.0mm 76.2mm 56 0.60) [Horsepower 310 – 525; Displacement 2.0L - 3.0L] GT3582R (61.4mm 82.0mm 56 0.70) [Horsepower 400 – 600; Displacement 2.0L - 4.5L] GT3788R (63.5mm 88.0mm 52 0.72) [Horsepower 440 – 675; Displacement 2.0L - 5.0L] GT4088R (63.5mm 88.0mm 52 0.72) [Horsepower 400 – 700; Displacement 2.0L - 6.0L] GT3271 (51.2mm 71.0mm 52 0.50) [Horsepower 200 – 420; Displacement 2.0L - 2.7L] GT3776 (55.0mm 76.2mm 52 0.54) [Horsepower 320 – 500; Displacement 2.0L - 4.0L] GT3782 (59.1mm 82.0mm 52 0.54) [Horsepower 350 – 550; Displacement 2.0L - 4.0L] All this info is available on Garrett’s website: www.turbobygarrett.com 6500 rpm red line points for this compressor at all four levels of boost are in the 70-75% efficiency region. 3750 rpm "knee" points for this compressor at all four levels of boost are in the 70-75% efficiency region. At lower boost levels, 10 and 16psi, efficiency passes through the highest efficiency island. At higher boost levels, 20 and 25psi this turbo is outside of its maximum efficiency level, but is still in the 70%+ region of the map This turbo will do great at lower boost levels and will do OK at higher boost levels. Good for low RPM response, but will run out of air at higher boost or higher RPM and on higher flowing motors. This compressor will give great performance compared to the stock T3-60. Goldilocks says “great upgrade for a stock motor,with a little room to grow” 6500 rpm red line points for this compressor at 10, 16 and 20psi of boost are in the 75% +/- 1% efficiency region. At 25psi you’re getting close to the limit of this turbo, you’re close to the max speed of the turbo and efficiency is dropping quickly as you approach redline. 3750 rpm "knee" points for this compressor at all levels of boost are in the 72% +/- 1% efficiency region. When accelerating towards redline, the efficiency passes through the maximum 78% area, thus performance is ideal during this period, especially at 16 and 20psi This compressor will give great performance compared to the stock T3-60. Goldilocks says "great upgrade for a stock motor, with a little room to grow " 6500 rpm red line points for this compressor at all three level of boost are in the 70 to 77% efficiency region. Lower boost levels can go even higher on the flow axis without losing much efficiency since their redlines are right on the edge of the highest efficiency island 3750 rpm "knee" points for this compressor are close to the surge line, especially at higher boost levels there may not be enough flow to spin the turbo around the knee When accelerating towards redline, the efficiency passes through the maximum 77% area, thus performance is ideal during this period. 10, 16 and 20psi boost plots spend a lot of time in the high efficiency region; 25psi doesn’t and will generate a little more heat. It should be obvious that this compressor can handle only slightly more boost above the 25psi line. This compressor will give great performance compared to the stock T3-60. Goldilocks says "great upgrade and good performance below 20psi with room for more flow” 6500 rpm red line points, for the three lower levels of boost, are just barely in the 76% "sweet spot" 3750 rpm "knee" points for this compressor, at 10 and 16psi, are pushing lower efficiency regions near the surge limit. This region is where the flow is not sufficient to spin the turbo wheels. At 20 and 25psi the knee points are outside the surge line, and this turbo would require a dual stage boost controller. This big compressor will give poor performance unless running full out near red line and beyond. Therefore; it is great for drag applications and higher flow motors and not so great for the street. Goldilocks says "too big for a stock motor, great for modified motors” 6500 rpm red line points for this compressor all fail to reach the highest efficiency region. 3750 rpm "knee" points for this compressor at all levels of boost are in the surge threshold region It should be obvious that this compressor will work better with a larger displacement or higher flowing engine as its sweet spot is far to the right where higher flows are required. Goldilocks says "too demanding and too big” This GT40R is a large frame turbo and has a T4 flange: 6500 rpm red line points for this compressor all fail to reach the highest efficiency region. 3750 rpm "knee" points for this compressor at all levels of boost are in the surge threshold region It should be obvious that this compressor will work better with a larger displacement or higher flowing engine as its sweet spot is far to the right where higher flows are required. Goldilocks says "too demanding and too big” Here are a few journal bearing turbos, first the GT32 (71mm) and then two GT37s (76mm and 82mm) 6500 rpm red line points at 10 psi and 16psi are in the 65 to 68% efficiency region. At 20 and 25 psi the red line points are off the compressor map where the turbo would be overspinning 3750 rpm "knee" points for this compressor at all four levels of boost are in the 76% efficiency region. When accelerating towards redline, the efficiency passes through the maximum 76% area for 10, 16 and 20psi, thus performance is ideal during this period. It should be obvious that this compressor can handle only slightly more boost above 16psi and it will run well from 10psi to 16psi of boost, or higher boost on a lower displacement motor This compressor will give great performance compared to the stock T3-60. Goldilocks says "great for low end response like auto-X or daily driving but not much room to grow" 6500 rpm red line points for this compressor at 10, 16 and 20psi of boost are in the 75% efficiency region. At 25psi the compressor is nearing its maximum speed and is in danger of overspinning 3750 rpm "knee" points for this compressor at all levels of boost are in the 70% efficiency region. At 25psi the knee is near the surge threshold region When accelerating towards redline, the efficiency passes through the maximum 76-77% area, thus performance is ideal during this period especially at 16 and 20psi. It should be obvious that this compressor will work best up to the 25psi line. Up to 20psi it can handle more flow from porting, a cam, intake, displacement, etc. This compressor will give great performance compared to the stock T3-60. Goldilocks says "just right, with room to grow" 6500 rpm red line points for this compressor at all four levels of boost are in the 74% efficiency region. 3750 rpm "knee" points for this compressor at all three levels of boost are in the 68% efficiency region. When accelerating towards redline, the efficiency passes through the maximum 76% area at 16 and 20psi, and through the 74% region at 10 and 25psi. Thus performance is ideal during this period. It should be obvious that this compressor can handle even more boost and more flow and remain quite efficient. "It can grow with your need for more speed" This compressor will give great performance compared to the stock T3-60. Goldilocks says "just right, with room to grow"

I wouldn't do it. You could rely on the pop-off valve in emergencies, but you would probably have to drive at no more than %50 throttle all the time. The wastegate lets quite a bit of air bypass, and I don't think the pop-off valve can match that, so you are still at risk of over-boosting. The pop-off valve works differently than the wastegate since it is on the intake track, not in the exhaust. And without a bypass in the exhaust you are still at risk of overspinning the turbo, overpressurizing the intake, and overboosting your motor. Not the best situation. I would wait till you have the wastegate setup before putting the turbo on. Also, another option is having the exhaust manifold modified and having a flange welded on there for the wastegate. This is an option, you can modify the stock exhaust manifold in several ways to fit a wastegate, like this:

So you put it back on and were still having the same issue? Was it any better? I was talking to hughdogz, and he mentioned that jgkurz ported his hole and took too much out, so there wasn't enough material for the puck to seal. So now he can't build boost. Not sure about the details, so you might get in touch with him if you're still trying to make this work. Keep us up to date on what you do.

Where is TO? I am thinking the same thing about summers in Oklahoma. 3 months of 100 degree weather every year? Not ideal for fusion IC. I still wanna try it thought

It seems like that would have a beneficial effect on exhaust flow. The turbine outlet (on this setup) is 3" though, so you'd have to step up to 3.5" or 4" to follow your line of reasoning. (3" is (30")^2 and 2" is (20")^2, so add those two and you get (50")^2, where 4" tubing is only (40")^2). I would be curious to see what gains you might get from having a 3" downpipe for 2 feet and then increasing to 4" as you reintroduce the wastegate gas. Compared to 3" all the way back with WG gas reintroduction at the same 2ft point. I know 4" seems big, but I'm pretty sure over 300hp, you would notice a difference and get some gain by increasing the exhaust size. And back to the original topic, check this page on Garrett's website that will give you a list of their distributors: http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/jsp/SearchDistributor.jsp

Hehe, sorry for threadja... I mean sidetracking your thread. I found this site when I was looking around for info on Garrett's internally gated GT30Rs. Looks like a pretty good deal, compared to other places. $1200+$125(I.W.) http://www.cimotorsports.net/motor-sport-products/garrett-gt3076r-turbocharger.html I don't know if there any distributors who give HybridZers discounts on those, especially if you're looking for a genuine Garrett turbo. Cool flange, I guess you'll be making you're own downpipe with that exhaust housing. How far down will you reintroduce the wastegate gas? I have seen them put back in anywhere from 3 inches to 3 feet down from the turbo. With that adapter, you could make your own divorced downpipe and I've seen them where people reintroduce the wastegate exhaust 2 feet down from the turbo, some more, some less. Farther from the turbo, the gas is less turbulent and the reintroduction causes less backpressure increase. I believe this is what you were interested in. Something like this: (originally posted by jgkurz) But of course without the external wastegate. Here are a couple of threads I found about downpipes with wastegate piping and internal vs external discussions: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125955&highlight=downpipe+bolt http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=136938&highlight=downpipe+bolt I would say I would agree with your approach on keeping the wastegate gases away from the turbine exducer to improve flow, that is the one thing I am concerned with on the Ultimate Internal Wastegate that Brad and I were talking about. You're choice does seem to address that issue, and I assume it would flow more without that additional turbulence. I wonder if the size of the wastegate hole is any different.

Tell me this doesn't look like a photoshop, and a bad one at that: Then go to the website and bear witness: http://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/MilesCrouch.htm At first I was like, "this is ridiculous", but then I was kind of impressed. 500+hp on race gas at 29psi.

Here is a link to a thread where we discussed the UIW: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=144403&highlight=ultimate+wastegate http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-023&Category_Code=WGT1 I also found this ebay auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garrett-V-Band-Adapter-GT25R-GT28R-GT30R-WG-5-BOLTS-VB_W0QQitemZ160312405579QQihZ006QQcategoryZ33742QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247 They list it as only being for the Garrett GT series turbos, GT25-30, but I don't see why it wouldn't work on any turbo with the 5 bolt Ford style exhaust housing.

Do you have any pics of this setup? that would be cool to see!

What's this, Brad, the pic he posted or JC's thing, or something else, did you forget a link?

Do the AFM now, and get it running. It's so nice to have a running car, and it can give a boost to your motivation to keep working on it. You can do the whole Megasquirt thing without too much down time. And if you're really planning on MS, out in front of the rad support should be fine as a temporary location for the AFM.

Great looking car, Cyg. When I was putting the motor in, I didn't think there would be room for the AFM, do you have any other pics of the AFM positioning, maybe from the bottom? I know the the AC is in the way, there might not be a way to get any better pics. Scott - This video shows how I mounted my AFM in front of the radiator - it's only temporary, since I have Megasquirt and an intercooler coming. http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u229/mbrazle/Turbo Motor/?action=view&current=MOV00125.flv Oh, and about the TB and TPS, no, you don't HAVE to swap throttle bodies. All I did was find a TPS with the variable output and modify it to fit the original throttle body, can't remember what it came off, but that's definitely an option, and I think there are many TPSs out there that could work, with the right modifications. With MS, the AFM is eliminated. Only a vacuum hose from the intake to a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor on the ECU board. And in case you don't know where to source the TB adapter, check out these places: http://hammondsplains.com/z/ http://www.freewebs.com/pallnet/ I don't see the adapters on pallnets page, but I think he sells them. Also, his hardware kits are excellent.

Check out this build: http://atlantaracing.tripod.com/turboz/Turbo_280Z.html Great writeup and pics. In fact it's the only mod I remember seeing that resembles what you're describing for the AFM.

All the O2 sensor suppliers I have read about or heard from say you should keep the sensor at least 12" from the turbo. Any closer and the sensor can't control the temp properly inside the sensor and can/will give false readings, or go bad. The sensor temp has to be within a certain range, 700-800deg or something, and as we all know, exhaust temps can range from 1000 to 1500 deg, which is well beyond the designed operating range of the sensors. (Also, why did you post this in ignition/electrical, mods - move plz )

That's great that she has her own opinions on what she wants to do with the car. Encourage that in every way, if everyone did what the folks on Hybridz told them to do, no one would have their own unique car. I personally like the muffler. It's got kind of the shorty/I-mean-business look. Lowering would be OK, but the current stance is nice and classic. I wish more people did the fender mirrors those are cool. And headlight covers really make a Z look sleeker. Again, tell her to do whatever she thinks is best, that's awesome.

The fusion intercooler, every time I read about that idea, it makes me want to try it.

Try googling for some pics of ported wastegates and see what others have done. Try to look for the more professional sources. Just cause someone posted a pic on the internet of their "Ultimate Flow Port Job", doesn't necessarily mean they know what they're doing. I have seen many pics of ported wastegates and it seems like some get close to 1/8th overlap or less even. I think since the flapper is closed it is still bypassing most of the exhaust gas to the turbine, so even with minimal overlap, there shouldn't be a noticeable performance loss.

I'm kind of surprised there aren't more votes for the 3" straight pipe.

Choose what your preferred exhaust system would consist of for a street driven turbocharged L28. (For the standard sized muffler I am assuming a straight through design, not a chambered muffler like most Flowmaster type mufflers)