Bob_H

Well well Danny boy. I haven't posted much of anything since the board swap. However, I finally trotted in to check out the new RB forum. I figured you might post about your dead motor, so I checked here as well. Here is the "rest" of the story. First, I had an absolute blast driving Dan's car that weekend and thank you Dan for offering it. If we can ever get it back together, I might sneak another track event out of him, maybe a time-trial to boot! 1st- the direct comparison from my old 3.1,(which was on the track that weekend as well in a new car), and Dan's. Ours were always built fairly similar with him having a significantly larger cam and initially SU's, now the OER's. His motor does not like anything below about 3500 under load. It bucks. My motor,(or more correctly, Jim's motor now), has much more usuable torque down low and doesn't complain pulling from lower rpm's. The effect is my old motor "feels" more powerful, but falls off a litttle on the top end,(fairly minor). Where Dan's would pull evenly all the way to the RPM limiter at about 7100 or so. Acceleration was about on par with a Z06 down low, but once I got into 4th, the Z06 just walked away. Superior aerodynamics and nearly 400 lb-ft of torque... If I can just convince Dan to put a decent set of brakes on his car, watch out! So here is the update from the shop on his motor. Terminal on the crankshaft and about 2-3 of the pistons. One rod is shot for sure. The #1 let go,(bearing wise), roasted the crank, let the upper portion of the connecting rod,(upper meaning where the bolts hold it to the crank, not up in the piston area), hit the block/bottom skirts of the pistons damaging the pistons. They then scratched up the sides of the pistons pretty bad as they worked on the bore. The odd thing about the block was the rear three cylinders were notched for clearance,(from the upper portion of the lower part of the connecting rod), but the front three weren't. Odd. Ironically, those were the three that hit and caused terminal damage. Bottom line from all this: Don't track extensively if you have a stock oil pan! Pay the money for a properly baffled setup, either Arizona Z, Motorsport Auto, or NISMO. BTW, Dan is getting a great deal on a barely used NISMO pan. The #1 con-rod crank bearing is shot. At a min it would have to go down 30 thou, likely more. For a street motor, no problem. For a motor that will see lots of track time, no way. So a new crank is in order. Also, the #1 con-rod is shot, needing a new one. And 2-3 pistons are needed. The question is do you go with 3 or 6..... It is only money right! And in reference to the valves hitting the pistons, it appers that was from before he had the Sunbelt cam installed, as not one of the valves was bent and all the guides were in good shape. However, he will be notching the piston as a precaution... Really what he needs is a brand new 3.1L short block... It is all just money, keep saying that Dan... BTW, I do need to comment on this from Mudge: I can't imagine any reason why someone would WANT 270ish of higher oil temps. Remember, most often it is measured in the oil pan. It can be up to 30 degrees or more higher in the cylinder head. That means you are approaching or exceeding 300 degrees in the cylinder head! That is pushing even Synthetics. And Synthetics do break down, they just don't leave the nasty sludge that dino oils do. As I understand it, they break down into an ash, and are transported through the oil to the filter. That is one of the reasons why motors pulled apart that are run only on synthetics look so clean. But I digress. I would sugges no more than about 240-250 oil temps. 190-210 is the common max power figure I have heard. As it gets hotter, it is only breaking down...... I thoght it was funny that Dan not only had an oil temp sensor in the pan, but had the gauge. He had just never ran the three wires,(sender, pos and neg...) However, I don't think it was a temp problem, but a oil control problem,(uncovering the pickup after running a full track day and not toppping it off on Sunday, so it was about a quart low). -Bob

Found out on my own how to change the color. Thanks though. -Bob

The black background is a big faux paux. It makes the contrast really hard to deal with. Please switch it to a grey or back to white. I have 20/20 vision and fly, but I can feel my eyes straining to read the posts. I like the new look, but absolutely don't like the black background.

Tony, Did you get my e-mails about the driveshaft loop? They really need it right now, and I am about to order one if I don't hear from you. I will gladly pay for shipping. -Bob rehanvey@yahoo.com

RB does not stand for racing built. I can't remember exactly what it was, but don't worry, that is a common misconception. Really only the RB26 was race engineered. It is just another line like the L series. And as stated, they are all inline 6's vice V-6's. think of them all in a line like our datsun motors vice a chevy engine,(a vee shape). Last, the RB20 is a 6 cylinder motor. -Bob

If I remember correctly, Stony posted this as a yahoo japan auction a while ago,(several months). I believe it had a full RB26dett with the AWD setup, hence the reason for being on an AWD dyno and the wide bodywork. -Bob

I understood that, but I guess didn't show it in my reply. My main point is that is misrepresentative by MSA about the kit without more details. Even with brand new parts, they were never originally designed to work together, and need to be balanced, prep'd etc... So your last comment holds esp. true: Make sure you take great care in building it, regardless of which route. -Bob

That is like asking how much power will a Chevy 350 with vortec heads make? It depends on so many different factors, there is no correct answer. Do a search of this forum and you will see lots of answers to your question. Bottom line, anywhere from 150 to 300 hp, depending on head work, how big the cam actually is, and carburation/state of tune,(and type of piston, flat, dome, compression ratio, etc..) -Bob

This has been covered a few times and can be found by a good search. However, I feel nice today. Yes, the rocker arms are the same. -Bob

Food for thought on that comment. First, the Nissan Kit is the same parts most of us use when we gather up all the individual "parts". The LD28 crank, the L24 rods, and the KA24E pistons,(which are cast). That is what MSA provides you, along with I believe bearings and rings. So strength wise, it should be the same as the used parts you can pick up assuming no previous problems with the parts. Now, as for the above quote, I feel that is likely the result of poor building and poor break-in/overreving vice poor materials. Just my thoughts having driven one for a while. As far as what you will run, take a close look at what James T and Jeff P have done with their strokers to get big power. James had his rods extensively prep'd among other things and Jeff went with a slighly smaller bore,(to make it a 3.0L vs a 3.1L). I think they will survive boost and nitrous fine, assuming you do it smart. Good prep on all the parts, and you don't overload their capacity. If you are looking for over 600hp, I suggest aftermarket rods and pistons regardless. Actually, I'm not sure I would keep the stock cast pistons past about 400 hp on boost, esp. with nitrous. Not saying it can't be done, but rather you may find yourself replacing pistons more often than you like if something goes lean or the ratio gets mixed up. Shop around, and you can find the price of custom rods and forged pistons not much above new stock nissan parts. -Bob

I'm guessing you haven't looked into how much those transmissions actually cost... You might want to explore that before you go into it with a full head of steam. Not cheap would be an understatement. The GTS-t 5 speed will more than hold up. No, it may not be 6 speed, but how much is one gear worth to you? Are you willing to spend over $10,000 just for an extra gear? If your lucky, you might be able to pick up a H pattern 6 speed plus bellhousing for less than 10k, but don't forget you ship it from Australia... And that says nothing for how the Hollinger will fit in the Z trans tunnel. The GTS-t tranny fits, but barely, and the "ears" on the tunnel which previously attached the Z transmission must be cut off and a custom mount built. It is a close fit. -Bob RB26 swap in progress.

Hey, that's out of context! You said: Then you aren't driving 500hp, but a reduced amount. If you are driving a turbo "adjusted" for street driving, it is no longer a 500 hp car. Come on. And I STILL think driving a 500 hp car on the street is stupid. By driving 500 hp, I mean USING 500 hp. Same thing. This does not go to say if you can control it, if it can be fun, its not worth it, etc... just that I think it is stupid.

One very, very important question. Do you have a business plan? And I don't mean, "yea, we're gonna do this, then that, etc..". I mean a written, concise plan that outlines expenses, goals, timelines, etc.. You are only hurting yourself if you don't address this. And if you haven't done a business plan before, get someone who has experience putting together SUCESSFUL business plans. Then you must follow and stick to your plan. A majority of the companies,(businesses) I see go under are a result of poor initial planning and or failure to excecute that plan. You need to identify your market, you need to identify how you will reach that market, etc.. Your wife should have some idea about business plans and that may be a good start. So, wanna do my car for good exposure? Think about it, Grassroots Motorsport? Likely more after that. Yes, I am bribing you. -Bob

Jamie, Prepare for a long answer. First, I would love for you to do the project I mentioned before to you via e-mail. I am dead serious about it, and am ready to start it now,(I have the extra car and all the parts, and you know about the magazine coverage). But on to your questions. I have known many "performance" shops come and go. What keeps the good ones? First, usually a guy or two who really knows what they are doing. Second, steady, "normal" work to keep the bills paid. The cool projects like mine, while looking awesome and garnering a fair amount of attention, require a lot of man-hours and usually aren't as profitable as the quick in and out jobs. I'm sure you know this by now having worked in several shops. You do have a few drag strips locally to you to showcase your work. I would suggest that. And look at where a large percentage of the money today is being spent. Honda's, DSM's, etc.. And I don't think a VQ effort in drag racing is the way to start out a shop. Another reality of a successful "tuner" shop is that you have access and decent prices for the body kits, wings, wheels, etc.. While I am a huge fan of form over function, many of your potential market are not, they love the show. Your single hardest obstacle is market acceptance/entry. By that I mean gaining your customer base where they are coming to you as soon as they get their paychecks for that "mad wing", or that new NOS setup for their Eclipse. But I think if you follow what you set-out, you will be successful. However, it usually takes from 2-3 years to be profitable. Working it part-time might mean it could take longer. I think the local Drags are a great way to get your name out there initially. But good consistent advice and service will keep me coming back. -Bob

Ross, Take a look at Dan Baldwin's comments on the rear arm design and the bending introduced by the current design. I don't know where he got the picture,(Dan), that I like that design better from a Mech. E's perspective. I'm sure you could still design it to be on car adjustable and not introduce that bending on the back bar. Sorry, but I can't find that thread. -Bob edit: found it: adjustable arm thread

I wrote you asking some questions on the intercooler. Shoot me an e-mail at rehanvey@yahoo.com when you get a chance. -Bob

No word. I feel fairly certain the guy is a fraud. But I do believe he is selling intercoolers and people are getting them. BUt to say you accept paypal, then to not, to have identical pictures with two acccounts, both from miami, to sell the same thing, to only accept mailed money orders, etc.. I would bet good money they are stolen and that is why this guy acts this way. I think people are getting their intercoolers but it was just too shady for me. We'll see what ratedz ends up with. If I were him, I would stick to my guns about a COD or Paypal. -Bob

You guys are unreal. [internet sarcasam] yea, that's what I meant[/internet sarcasam]. Geez. Its freakin symantics. Want vs need vs desire. Since I broke out the dictionary before, I'll do it again. Need: necessity, obligation,(no, not that kind of obligation). I personally WANT 500 hp. Actually, I'll likely WANT more. (I am putting the RB into my Z Jim) Noone NEEDS that power outside of a track environment. I can't see a single reason why you would ever need 500 hp outside of the track. That is not to say you can't USE it, or ENJOY it. Symantics. Again, not a NEED for more power, but the lack of a NEED for 500 hp in a 2300lb car on the street. There is no reasonable justification for it. However, that is exactly why most of us will build it. Because we can and we want to. And don't drape me with the assault weapons issue or use it to divert the issue. There is a difference between keeping our freedoms, etc.. Personally, I don't give a rats butt what others think about weapons issues. Me personally? Not an issue I even worry about or have a position on. I was discussing your example. I serve and fly daily so all of us have the priveledge to do, buy and own the things we desire. I am willing daily, do give my life if necessary so you and others can continue to do that. I WILL NOT get into this discussion, either about weapons, or what our military is doing now. If you want to discuss that, don't hijack this thread, start a new one, and you won't find me in it. Jim, I realize you may think this is fun,(or funny), but I felt it was pushing the limits there. Enough thread hi-jacking. -Bob

I look forward to pictures of this. When you say cut 2-4 inches are you refering to the tie-rods? Am I to assume the rack itself requires no mods and will bolt in leaving only getting it to work with the 240/260/280z spindle attachement point? (where the outer tie-rod attaches to the spindle). -Bob

My dog-eared american heritage dictionary defines stupid as:adj:Showing a lack or sense of intelligence. A 500 hp car on the street shows a lack of sense or intelligence. Yes the driver is what uses that 500hp....however I still stand my ground. No, I am most certainly not a Hillary fan. However, just as there is no reason for an assualt weapon, there is no reason for a 500hp street car. However, if someone wants to build one, they are more than welcome to. Doesn't mean I have to agree. I think it is stupid. period. that is my opinion and will not change. With respect to LT_ZT's comment about trailer only etc? No, I will say it again, you don't need 500 hp on the street. If some of you guys weren't so quick to pull the trigger in a response, you would see I agree with Lockjaw and others about turning down the boost for the street, etc.. But I will gladly be the martar to get this topic more attention. Ok, back on topic... zline, he wants to build a drag car, not a handling car. So that might change a few things in your budget. However, you are dead on with this comment: Of course if we take out streetable and make it "track ready for 500 hp" it still works. LT_ZT, have you outlined your budget yet? what are we dealing with? $1000, $3000, $5000, $10,000? And I am talking just suspension/chassis prep. The engine is a whole different topic previously covered. My suggestion? Build a mild motor, say 350hp. Take it to the track and find the weak links,(which you should have a good idea of from here). Then, as you build up the power, upgrade the weak links, which are commonly known to be the u-joints and stub axles. Generally speaking folks are not twisting driveshafts and destroying diff's. The transmission will survive if you don't powershift. If you insist on powershifting, expect to toast the syncro's on a regular basis. An Automatic such as James has is appropriate as you get upwards of 500 hp. So I would check to ensure the current u-joints and stub axles are in good shape. Assuming they are, build your turbo motor to a mild state of tune, enjoy it while tuning at the track, then upgrade the other areas. 350hp will net low 12's in the 240, possibly lower. Make sure your brakes are up to snuff, good quality pads in the front, I suggest Carbotech rear shoes if you don't want to switch to a disc setup, and a good thorough bleed of the system. Good tires, good brakes, good u-joints and axles, and have at it! Then start the downward spiral of upgrading power. -Bob

Easy trigger, he did think about it before hand. First, while the auction says he accepts paypal, he does not. I think all E-bay auctions put that they accept paypal regardless of the sellers ability to accept paypal or not. I specifically brought this up with this guy, that it says he will accept paypal but he says he won't. The only option he as a seller has provided is money order, postal money order to him. I'm sure he would accept a bank check,which is why i told ratedz to do such because he has some information as to where it was deposited with that. -Bob

Hey, lets keep my quoting in context! I did quote Scottie to my advantage, but I also was clear later on with: So we,(Scottie, me and you among others), are all in agreement. -Bob

comes in to douse water on discussion I found it. I admit ahead of time that I am quoting him partialy, and to my favor: That discussion can be found here: prior 500 hp discussion We established before this was going to be primarily a street car. 500 hp in a 240Z is stupid for a street car. Take notice I am not saying you are stupid, but the idea of a street 240z with 500hp is stupid. (attacking idea, not person..) I'm not budging from that one. So there are still some unanswered questions. First, what are you really building this for. Again, as we all stated before, that makes a large difference in what is recommended. A 500hp road race,(track), car will require different mods than a 500hp drag race car. The hard launches a 500 hp 240Z see's will break things that will barely be stressed in a road race car. I am not going to entertain discussions on street cars and what will break with 500 hp. Here's my answer to that. Nothing will break. Why? Because you should never push and use anywhere close to your 500 hp,(assuming your car has 500 hp), on the street. Again, realize "you" is a generic term. I am speaking to everyone. You gotta define more clearly as you skipped out on the last discussion before we could more clearly identify how to get your "must-have 500 hp". -Bob

Noone needs 500 hp. I'll fish up a great post by scottie about driving a 500 hp, 10 second car on the street. Actually, it was in a thread that you started now that I think about it...now I peaked my own curiousity. Lemme go find that link. -Bob

Because that's what everyone says! (follows lamb off cliff...) In otherwords, no reason. The only reason people should not consider the P-90A is the hard time getting good lifters as new ones are no longer available. The P-90A's are more than capable of being used in a performance application and with a bigger than stock cam as I used mine for 15k miles with no issues at all. It is now happily motoring to more miles in another car. The lifters can be cleaned and re-used,(assuming they aren't worn too much) check the archives/search function on how to clean the hyd. lifters. -Bob PS - to answer the original question posed by this thread - the main weak link in a 500hp Z is the driver. Period.