Bob_H

Mike, Glad to see you are ready to start your project and have finally settled on a motor/combo. Good luck! -Bob

Here is one more sentence from that page. I think this defines what it actually means: In laymans terms, I put a RB26 motor in my U.S. 240z, it is now a non-U.S. version vehicle. -Bob

Here is the best reference I can find to show you the motor is illegal. From the following link: http://internet.ggu.edu/~emilian/ops113/ch31.html Pretty clear to me. Not legal at all. However, as we have said several times, you can register and get your car legal. Just realize the motor is not technically allowed. -Bob

Dude, understand what you are saying. Even if you found someone who would say, "put the smog equipment in and your ok", there is NO books for the Ref's to look at and verify you have it all hooked up. I think you are demonstrating a big lack of understanding on the issues involved. Don't be the guy who spends $5k on the RB26 engine, $5k on the swap, then can't get it legal. Understand you may do the swap,(do you really know how much it costs to put in the RB26? Have you even read my threads on transplanting the AWD into the Z?), and it might not be road legal. I would say it is clear you are still very much in the research mode as evidence by your AWD comments. Do a good search in this forum about the AWD swap, you'll be surprised. -Bob

Guys, this is getting out of hand and bad info is being passed out. The site zrl listed,(jags that run), references US motor swaps into a US car. Show me where it says a SR20det motored 240sx is legal? I'm not saying it won't pass smog, but show me a Ref in califiornia that will pass it. They need the emissions diagram books for the us cars, and there is no such animal for the SR or RB motors......therefore they are illegal and won't be given registration stickers. Show me a guy in CA that has his car registered properly with the SR motor. Their are ways to get around it, but not to do it the right way. Therefore, in a state such as South Carolina where they don't do squat to check the car, I can "register" the car and it is "legal". However, the motor is not federally legal to put in the car and neve will be. California and other similar states make it even harder by having visual inspections and smog checks. I'll find you the "legal wording" to satisfy you. But in the meantime, stop saying they are ok, as they are not. There is a difference between getting away with a swap, and it being legal. -Bob

Alex, You are then doing what most of us RB swapers have done, put the motor in the Z body. Still goes by a Z for registration, still has an illegal motor that will likey never be checked. I will still street drive my RB powered Z knowing the motor is not legal. -Bob

That made me laugh really hard. But to an extent, true. I wouldn't say it all started with them, but they sure had an impact. I grew up in Arizona, Mesa,(near pheonix). To say there was a huge mini trucking contingent is a huge understatement. I do want to address one thing here: First, no bold please. And esp. no bold with larger letters. It distracts from your message. Anyways, Motorex is a great company to call if you want a Skyline GT-R, or order a front clip,(not something they really do more than dabble in). They can shed some light on what to do to make the RB26 work in the GT-R and what to do for power. They are pretty much useless about using it in other cars. I have the motor, and have looked into lots of companies. Sean who used to work there seems to have a good grasp on the motor itself and I gone to him for some of the mods I have done,(his advice that is). I only offer this up as a FYI as most don't realize that. Your answer is the standard answer someone gives when the RB subject comes up so don't feel bad. And I can safely say there is noone in japan working on a non stock L series head. Top secret, Jun and other big name Japaneese companies put their research and development money into projects that will return their money. an aftermarket L series head won't. This is borne out by the relucatance of O.S. Giken to re-introduce their cross flow head. Besides, Jeff has more than found a great way to get incredible power from the stock L series heads,(along with a few others such as James). -Bob

I have never said you can't do it, just it is not legal. Just because they don't look under the hood doesn't mean it is ok. I can't think of a good example of something else that we all do, but it is illegal even if it is not checked. I guess you could look at it this way: a radar detector in a state where it was not allowed. I can run a radar detector here in Virginia, but it is against the law. At my state inspection, that is not something they check, so I can get away with it, but that doesn't make it any more legal. Bottom line, engine is illegal to run, but noone checks...its one thing they could get you with if they chose, but it isn't worth it. Besides, how many people would know that motor was never sold here in the US? I'd bet very, very few, and virtually no Police or inspectors. -Bob

There is a fairly important difference with what you are talking about. First, I am well aware of Motorex, as I have a RB26dett, though not through them. There is a big difference between making an entire car legal according to DOT's rules and legalizing a motor,(of which there is no procedure or guidelines, i.e. you can't do it). DOT has made certain rules to legalize a non US origin car. It is much, much eaiser for cars that were also sold in the US originally, even if w/o the same motor. It involves putting catalytic converters, DOT legal windshields, different bumpers if required,(think of the old Lamborghini Countach and the huge bumpers) among other changes. For cars that were not originally sold in the US, the importer must crash test a few models to prove that they meet the US standards. The importer is licenced to do this. The motor by itself is an entirely different matter. I'm not blowing smoke here, and again, unless you have absolute proof, i.e. a link to the law, I'd bet good money what I said was dead on as I have researched it for some time. Not saying people don't put motors in, or haven't before, but it has never been legal. It just isn't something that is checked. Again, be aware of what rules you are choosing to break. -Bob

fair enough. I'll say there was a 240sx project car for GRM. I have no knowledge of a 240z project car. Actually, I talke to them about being one of their project cars with my current project..... I'd love to see if there was another 240z with a SR motor. -Bob

Mike, that was a 240sx, not 240z. David K. on this board knows of at least one 240z with a SR20. But I'll echo Ivan's comments, take a look at previous posts. That will answer many of your questions. -Bob

I don't think that is accurate. The RB should NEVER be legal in a US car. The RB was never certified or sold here in the US, therefore, to the best of my understanding, is completely illegal for a car used on the road. It makes no difference if it is a pre 73 car in CA, as it had to be built to some US standard at some point. If someone disagrees, please provide a link to proof showing otherwise, not just "my buddy has a XX motor in his 71". That is following the letter of the law. Will it stop me from building mine? No, but you should understand the rules you chose to break. -Bob

Steve, Nice catch, I missed the number of main bearings. Interesting block/combo nonetheless. -Bob

Interesting. First, with that second link you provided David, can anyone compare those main and connecting rod journal diameters to the stock 2.8L? Second, the LD28 crank already has some issues fitting in the 2.8L block w/o hitting the sides of the block,(or more importantly, the underside of the cylinder wall). So another block would have to be used. DAW has looked heavily into the LD28 block for use in a non-diesel configuration. I don't know if it has better provisions for the longer stroke. Or for that matter, what about the SD block... And what about the engine mounts.... Interesting.... -Bob

Easy for me. The wierd, "Non-cool" car I like is the BMW M Coupe. Definately not everyones favorite, and definately unique. I liked it so much I owned one and loved it. Here is a picture: And You can check out http://www.368s.com for more info on the cars. My member number is 20. I don't own the car anymore, but the second pic I have posted was my car and it saw many days like the first blue M Coupe..... -Bob

Belgium? Well, it is still in your best interest to find the least rusty car you can, even if it is twice the price. If it is only in the floors and frame rails, it is fairly easy to deal with. If it is in the rocker panels, rear quarter panels, or other places, it is much harder to fix. Keep that in mind. Check out Pete's site,(pparaska), and look at the frame rail design he has. That is an excellent addition to a track driven Z. Second, for a track car with approx. 300 hp, why not the 2.8L turbo motor? It is much eaiser, only about 50lbs more than the CA18 setup by most accounts, and doesn't require a bunch of custom work? For your goals, I suggest the L6 turbo motor from the 280zx, 1981-1983 models. 300 hp is easy and proven in the L6 turbo. The CA18DET will be more stressed to produce that power,(read that to mean aftermarket parts and more money). Yes, the CA18 can produce that kinda power, but the 2.8L will produce it with less work,(and less money). Food for thought, good luck either way. -Bob

David, I'm not sure I understand your logic. It does matter the aftermarket support for this project. He clearly is on a budget of some kind,(why else would he consider a badly rusted 260z) and aftermarket/upgrade parts are not as common on the CA motors and tend to be more expensive. Yes, you can get "anything", but at what cost? I ought to know working on a CA18det motored 240sx,(s-13). Realize I am not talking about the "him selling his car" aftermarket, but the aftermarket availability of parts and upgrades of which the SR has a wider base of available parts/upgrades, which are usually cheaper to a small extent. And to say the CA18deT takes more boost because of the iron block is misleading and I'm not sure accurate. The iron block of the CA should allow it to withstand more power, but overall prep at the kind power levels have a much bigger impacts than the block design. Again, for that to become a valid difference, we are talking hig levels of boost, of which I doubt he is looking to do initially. Either way, that is assuming a lot because that was not outlined by him. And my comment on the motor/tranny should have said that the price is very similar to the CA18 setup from an importer,(it wasn't clear initially). So for about the same outlay in cost, you get a motor with .2L more displacement, more of them here in the US,(assuming he is in the US), and a larger/cheaper selection of aftermarket upgrades if they so choose to go down that route. -Bob

Dan, I didn't quite catch that the first time, could you post that again? :flamedevil: -Bob (also an internet retard...) So did you finally get the new clutch pedal? Shoot me an e-mail to find out the new route of the project. I just picked up the shell I was telling you about. The measurements got me excited about the posibilities...

First, I will echo what many of us will say again and again. Don't even consider starting any project with a Z with a lot of rust. You will spend so much time and money getting rid of the rust, it won't be worth your time. You can pick up a 240z/260z/280z with little to no rust for less than $1000. The 240's are getting harder to find for that price, but I am talking no motor/tranny. Second, there are no ready made mounts for the CA18 - it would all be custom. That is the reality of any of the RB/CA/SR swaps. There is a set of mounts that can kinda make a RB setup work in the engine, but they are a compromise. Besides, some of us are selling mounts that work better than that, for the same or lower price. And really, you are probably better going with the SR20 and giving up maybe 1000 revs on the top end max,(7500/8000 vs 8500/9000). The SR has a bigger aftermarket, the motor/tranny is just about the same for a S-13 setup, and you aren't giving up displacement. But again, bottom line, forget the rust bucket and move on to a better platform. You can easily spend $2k and months of time fixing rust. -Bob

hey man, welcome to the world of hybrids. short answer, yes it will fit and work to all your questions. long answer: do a search of this forum. the question has been asked many times and you will be amazed at what you will find about the swap and how easy it really is. bottom line, do what fl327 said and get it running. don't worry about the turbo yet. the car is fun w/o it. again, seach this forum and the L6 forum and you will find the answers to all your questions. -Bob

I too applaud Juan for coming up with any aftermarket setup for Z's as they are few and far between. (trying really hard not to ignite a firestorm or argument, so please take it as such). Here is the properties from Mike's page on that picture: http://fonebooth.com/images/4lugconv.gif I know the image of the rotor,(the black and white one), and the caliper is from willwood because I was just at their site the day before,(exploring some options for myself). Here is my take,(and again, don't let this take away from your product as all of us want it to stay around). First, if I see a picture on e-bay or on someone site, I have a reasonable expectation that it is of their product unless otherwise stated. It is not stated on your auction. I was trying to find out if you were offering one of Mike's products through your own company, if it was something similar, or a completely different setup. I have had pictures from my sites stolen and used without my permission on other sites. I am not a fan of that, hence some of my comments. I can't say for sure, but I think that is Mikes exclusive picture,(i.e. he took it). I think it would be a courtesy to Mike and fair if you let him know you were using the picture if that is the case. Also, it might be helpful to say on your auction that it is merely a represenative picture and not your actual piece. I know it hard to read intent on the internet, so I'll say mine. Again, this is not an accuastion, or pointing the finger. I am trying to better understand what product you are offering,(main goal) and what the difference is from Mike's,(secondary goal). And if it is a picture from Mike's page, he and us consumers deserve to know, hence my questions. Please believe I have the best intentions and am just trying to get to the bottom of this for mine and others understanding of you offering. -Bob

Ok, first, I don't know any of the parties involved. Second, this is merely an observation, not a comment on the product. Take a close look at the picture in the e-bay ad: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=33564&item=2417020676 And the picture on Mike Gibson's site, fonebooth.com on his brake page: (look at his stage 3 setup) http://www.fonebooth.com/brakes_zcar.html Or here is the picture,(look at properties to see where it is from): They are clearly the same picture. Either you are using Mikes part,(very likely), or the picture was stolen. not accusing, just observing. I missed the beginning of your discussion about this part, so you may have already covered this, if so I apologize. -Bob

BTW john, small correction to your post. It is http://www.fonebooth.com, not phonebooth..... You need to scroll to the bottom of the page to the small link that says: "automotive". -Bob

George, Welcome to the empty wallet. All of us who are currently and have done the RB swap have around 20k in the car. You can do a bare bones swap for about 12k, but that is pushing it. I'll give you my standard "Do a Search", but in a nicer tone than recently,(my pee-pee was slapped for not doing it right - wait, can I say that here?). Anyways, there is lots of good information in these threads already. Here are my thoughts on the different aspects of your "project". First, why in the world build a motor with all those internals when the stock internals and head can suppport 400 whp on stock turbos with 15psi of boost?(Stony who posts here has 394). He had 350 on stock boost levels. You said you won't really drag race, and are more into road racing,(I instruct with NASA and other groups on the East coast). I will tell you that in a Z, any Z, more than about 350-400 hp at the wheels is overkill in the Z and you won't be able to even come close to utilizing it on the track, much less public roads. My suggestion, stay stock on the motor to start. Get it in the Z and running,(a really big deal). Then, and only then,(running and working properly), start thinking about upgrading parts. The RB26 is a race engineered motor and you dumping 10-12k in parts is only usefull if you want more than 750 hp. Trust me when I say get it in the car and running as quick as you can. No project is fun when it takes 2-3 years to complete. There are three of us making the stock ECU work,(two are closer than the other one), and two others are using aftermarket ECU's. I say get a good donor car first, then get an oil pan done,(there are a few options we can talk to you about), and get the motor/tranny in the car. There are several options for motor mounts, from about $100-250. There are several options for the tranny mounts, from bolt-in to weld-in. The stock GTR front part of the driveshaft will work and bolt up to the tranny and R-200. All that is left to fabricate is the intercooler piping, the fuel lines, and the exhaust. All of which we have fairly simple solutions that work well. Bottom line, I think your project can work, but some of your ideas are just unecessary. You can get on the road a lot faster by doing some things different. -Bob

Based on my research when I had to find a pilot tool, the 300zx clutch should be identical. The dimensions are the same,(overall dia), and I know the spline count is the same,(I used the 300zxTT clutch pilot tool). Still, not a cheap clutch. You might consider finding someplace that will sell you only the clutch disc, as I have no idea if the pressure plate is the same..., but you more than likely need both. Time for that OS Giken or similar clutch... -Bob