Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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This is all standard distributor stuff. Polishing of centrifugal weight working ramps, using 'sticky' grease to smooth the advance, altering the weight/spring tension/slot/peg to limit advance/retard...
The bouncing will happen as a function of inertia and the springs working against it.
The way to get around it, is to go fully digital. That's it. Any mechanical timing device will have a range of advance that is there depending on which point you are at--there is only narrowing the range. You will not make it rock steady unless the mechanical action is eliminated completely.
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Yeah, getting people to pay is always a problem.
I got into that with a former employer, who wanted me to stop work on a Net-10 paying customer I was billing at $150hr+ Premium Charges to go work on a 'COD Call-In' which paid $65 an hour.
I recall that conversation well: "Joe, there are some customers you DON'T want!"
I think one of the prime reasons he's still in the business today is the service work my partner and I brought into the job paid on time, consistently, and never argued over the bills. Big margins on big equipment compared to his traditional line of work. Couldn't understand why we would take weeks on the job and didn't 'do more work' (meaning more customer visits)---but never complained when those $100K invoices were paid Net-10 or on-time Net-30 (instead of the usual 60 and 120 day float...) Hell, I had terms and conditions for the larger jobs that the customer provide payment for parts IN ADVANCE (we're talking full payment for our cost, with the profit to be paid on the back end---usually couched to the customer as '50% parts cost up-front'...muahahahaha!) To think he hated me as much as he did is sometimes mind boggling. He never thought this stuff up, we gave him GOLDEN customers who paid what we wanted, when we wanted it, and sometimes IN ADVANCE so his 'small business' didn't suffer the weight of playing in the Big Dog's league. Hell, it paid his wife's Mercedes lease at $840 a month as well as giving her a $245,000 raise the second year we were there... Don't get me started...
A portable fab shop in SoCal working in industrial stuff (gates, ornamental iron, light structural) will stay consistently busy, it's just finding or getting the word out to prior customers that you are out there.
Moving alone for work rarely works out. The only people I know that do that should be retired. Wife and Husband teams with big fat bulldogs that live in travel trailers and go from plant startup to plant startup as skilled labor, or supervision on rotating contracts. It's an interesting life if you and the missus wants to travel. But with kinder, it's not going to work. And leaving for long periods just to make $$$ is tougher on the kids than most think.
Skype does some stuff, but not substitute for some things.
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"I'm too old for too much of this crap."
I'm starting to say that more and more myself...
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If you have an ADJUSTABLE TIMING GEAR you can make a "B" an "F" and vice-versa!
I have a Tomei, and love it! Nothing like dialing in the EXACT cam setting that nets you best power under curve. Usually it's not 'straight up' but 2-3 degrees one way or the other. The effect on Torque can be spectacular...
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"Alot of other countries besided this one are acutallu using that methond instead of using roll cages. "
I'll call B.S. on this one, show me the country or at least reference the FIA specification that allows this.
Total load of crap!
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PM responded to...
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"What I found a bit disappointing, however was some of these which required 'skilled labor' were only willing to pay $10/hour. You can get nearly that flipping burgers. That $10/hour equates to $1,600 month and if you factor in a car, insurance, room, food, and gas ... it's not even close to a living wage."
Hence my suggestion that he work for himself. When you are paying fabrication companies 30$ an hour for work (closer to 50-65 for general structural work here in SoCal) the EMPLOYEES of the company usually get 1/3 of that rate at most.
If they are independents, they get that full amount, minus expenses.
It doesn't take long as a skilled tradesman to realize you aren't going to make a lot of money working for entry-level outfits forever. To make any appreciable money, you need to strike out on your own. It's always easiest to make a job when you already have one, but if you get into a situation where you're bringing in work to the company...you may as well do it yourself.
There are risks to it, but the reward upside is phenomenal. And, to paraphrase Conan the Barbarian: "The greatest satisfaction is to drive your former employers before you, crush them, and hear the wailing lamentations of their women!"
Been there, done that! I agree with Conan!
And beware what you classify as a 'living wage'---that is what they make room-mates and second jobs for! Been there as well.
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I hate to say this but i think the key to making money as a tradesman is being able to go where the work is at.Problem is that you have no home life living in motel rooms-or working overseas.Keep your mind open to trying something different but still involved in welding-maybe frame fabrication for a racing team?Maybe repair on mining equipment?I wish you luck.
Agree with Randy...
There is an alternative for working for other people: Work for yourself. Do you know how much those gates you make sell for? What the materials cost?
A Bobcat in the back of a clapped out truck, and the ability to go repair someone's gate or go to their place and make what they want can pay pretty well. No it's not secure, you are not an employee, there is stress involved.
But the first big project pays off, and you sit there looking at your bank account going "I could live off this for three months if I work it right!" and you start to realize working for yourself doing something you're good at, and that people need to have done can be handsomely rewarding.
You may not get rich, but likely you will make far more than you ever did as an employee and the tax advantages start to add up little by little.
You can go to places overseas as a welder, get shot at, and make $80K for 4 months work rotation. But that's not for everybody!
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"Has anyone here made their own "short throw" shifter by cutting down a stock one and either threading or mounting the knob in another fashion? I kinda hate paying for something I can make myself with my limited fab skills. "
As it's in quotation marks, I'll reply yes, I have. But it's not shortening the throw in the traditional sense of altering the pivot point so the same lever moves less. You simply shortened the lever, lessening the mechanical advantage and the arc it moves. Shifting effort is increased quite a bit doing it this way.
The SMC Conversion was REALLY short, but worked well if you mated it with a LOOOOONG shift lever (like a truck) to get the shifter closer to the wheel.
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If you can identify which one is low or warped I could see that working...but....
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There were transition heads that simply had little block-off plates on the cam towers after going to an internally oiled cam.
The supply is the same for both oiling methods, just how it is delivered is different.
The grooves on the journals allow oil to move around to a drilled passage in the tower, and out to the spray bar. Block them off, and then it all stays in the towers. The internal cams have holes in those same grooves to go to the center of the cam and out to individual lobe holes.
Most people will do the enlargement of the oiling galley when the head is off to allow more oil up there.
I lost a turbo around a hard sweeping corner when the oil sloshed away from the pickup under boost. I could see low oil causing problems with pressure.
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"Also, it was my understanding that cam towers will wear to the cam a little, so a cam may not spin as freely as you'd want it to on a fresh install."
This is ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT! The cam should NEVER run on the aluminum bearings except at startup under valve spring pressure. As soon as lubrication is supplied it will run on a film of oil. There is NO 'wearing in' of the cam towers.
Anybody stating there is is missing the line-boring concept, or has improperly installed them and used that as an excuse to justify not going back and making it right.
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Spray Starting Fluid down the intake and see if it catches. If it doesn't, it's not your ECU.
Pulsing of the injectors is all you need. If you've flooded it, it can take three days to dry out!
"Hot Plug" and burning out the combustion chambers may help in this instance...
A little sparse on details, but it looks like you're missing the forest because of all the trees in the way.
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That would seem to indicate a warped head more than anything else...
Bet Tool Boy lubed up those cam tower bolts 'real good' when he torqued them...
Well, speaking of Tools...I have to go sink a couple of 5/8-11 Helicoils into a gearbox and then have the locals hail me as Conquering God of Metal by saving them $120K replacement costs for a new gearbox...
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I was always partial to Ted Nugent's "Wango Tango"... Can't access YouTube here so can't link it!
It has everything, Saliva... Turbochargers... Maseratis...
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Yeah, I was quickly looking for property myself!
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My bone stock "Blue Turd" 260Z was usually within a few seconds of modified cars (S30's) on most track days. And if anyone cares to remember the BSP Datsuns were time competitive with Vetted, SCCA grouped them together.
With a modified engine putting out more HP? oh yeah!
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Ditto Larcis.
Mild port and cam with 350 on CA pump gas and 21psi, but usually at 17 to use cheap gas as a daily driver!
With an unported head and stock cam results were similar, but on higher octane and totally different driving characteristics.
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Yes that cam will help past 5k for sure. The torque peak I'd higher.
The pressure plus spring pressure would be what you have. For some reason your springs seem to have failed. And that is enough to cause the issue at idle...maybe allowing movement and variable geometry at the higher toms as well....
Like I previously said: what else can you do?
I am definitely NOT a fan of elevated oil pressures!
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There was a brief, shining moment recently when the Arizona Legislature considered that since ONLY 10% of the state's revenue was coming through property taxes that they should really consider simply cutting expenditures by that much and doing away with the administrative headache of collection and relieving taxpayers of the nuisance!
Somehow that didn't fly, but man it was a nice thought!!!
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Sounds like the lifters are freely moving at least!
They should pump-up with oil pressure as long as sufficient flow and pressure exist. And that should be the condition at 4500+ rpms. The hydraulic pressure provided by the oil pump, plus the cross sectional area of the pivot's plunger would exert considerable upwards force.
But those things should be SILENT at idle. If they are clattering, you are loosing oil pressure to an extent that it won't support the lifters. On an 83ZXT with the lifters the injectors clicking is all you hear at idle...with the occasional burp from the bullfrog pump.
I think you have an oil pressure problem which may or may not be cured by the mechanical changeover. The N/A cam (depending on which one you get) will either be similar, or noticeably different up top from the turbo cam. The comparison of power before-and-after will be somewhat skewed replacing them both at the same time but what else can you do?
Good Luck!
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We had conventional distributor in our racer (magnetic trigger) with 45 DCOE's and ran it to over 7500rpms.
When we went to ITB's we went to a magnetic trigger which was installed in the stock distributor---the smaller wheel in there was good to 8500 rpms (so they said) and as long as we ran the engine below that point, we never had any issues with spark scatter.
When we went above 9500 on the L20A, then we started having reliability issues with the spark. Went to true crank-trigger (basically a bigger wheel) and the issues resolved themselves---same system, different trigger point. The MAGNETIC triggers need spacing between the 'peaks' to get a readable signal in the ECU. The opticals work faster and the circuitry is faster so a larger diameter wheel doesn't do much for you other than allow you to use cheaper components and processors in the ECU (think OEM...)
With what JeffP found on the conversion of the optical trigger from the Z32 put into a conventional distributor...I think we could have kept it there and not messed with the hassle of making a crank-trigger bracket.
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ANY spark scatter you are experiencing is NOT a function of the Optical Trigger. It's an e-gate which is on or off and nothing in between.
ANY spark scatter you are experiencing is DIRECTLY a function of several factors which come into play when using ANY system NOT directly fired off the crankshaft.
1) Crankshaft to Drive Gear Backlash.
2) Any Key Shearing that may have happened.
3) Possible loose pulley bolt letting drive gear on crankshaft 'work'.
4) Friction fit of drive gear on distributor shaft which lets is rotate freely when hot.
5) Slop in the Drive Tang of the Distributor.
ALL the above factors (these are the quick ones I can think of) contribute to timing that 'changes' while the engine is running.
The optical triggers are good to over 12,000rpms DISTRIBUTOR speed without fail. JeffP has made a test bench to check this on an O-Scope, similarly the input speed for the Nissan Distributor (Z32) components is similar.
The trigger only fires when gated. WHERE the gate is relative to the crankshaft is dependent on the above 5. There is no rotational inertia of the plastic disc relative to the metal components. I will posit the 'scatter' you see is from the metal parts which have a lot more inertia 'rattling around' and as the disc is relative inertia-free it sticks to the shaft it's pressed onto and triggers reliably relative to it's original position.
Take that same optical trigger wheel, chuck it in a direct driven dremel tool powered test stand and you see there is no variation in trigger events. It's rock solid.
In the digital world, it truly is GIGO---the mechanical slop leading up to the triggering point is where its changing. It moves relative to the crankshaft for any number of reasons. The stock mechanical distributors do the same thing. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but you can make a damn good looking pig.
Short of going to crank-fire, the only thing you can do is what guys have always done to get better, more accurate distributor spark timing. Ultimately that meant removing the distributor and it's complex drivetrain components and triggering off the crank directly. That is the ultimate solution.
The question is "do you need it?"
From what your described use of the car is currently....I would say "No".
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I would think soooo.
I can't view what's on the video here, so it's nothing I can comment on.
Crane Xr3000 stable vs, HEI?
in Nissan L6 Forum
Posted · Edited by Tony D
"Timing mark still dances above 3000rpm.
Maybe they all do that??"
For the THIRD time: MECHANICAL DEVICES INHERENTLY HAVE SLOP FROM THE FIVE AREAS LISTED IN MY FIRST POST
What part of this aren't you absorbing.
I think it's the 'Mechanical Devices all have slop in them inherently and you can't eliminate it, only MINIMIZE it.'
The thing is smooth on the springs, until it hits the stops, then the inherent lash in the gears driving the upper parts comes into direct play.
"My motor man says the Crane XR3000 is a POS"
Probably because it's not the POS he sells at his shop. For your stated use, likely it's overkill.
Statement:
Way to take nothing, turn it into something, then solve a problem which doesn't exist in the first place.
Are you a government employee, bychance?
You want smooth, steady as a rock timing?
Do what the OEM's ALL did WITHOUT EXCEPTION: Crankfire Timing.