Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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How else will you determine it?
That is what you have to do!
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Yes, each stage will either spin progressively faster, or be physically larger to accommodate the flow required to boost teh pressure to the next higher level: PV=nRT
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I don't think you understand what is being said: spray the component when the misfire is happening. Spray it to coooooool it down to the core. This will take literally seconds. Then RESUME high load,high rpm running. If it goes away, then you have isolated it.
Jumping around throwing parts at it won't solve your problem with any degree of certitude on what exactly was wrong. The Freez-It works, if you say the above conditions had no effect, then HEAT is not your problem with the component. Remember a coil only processes the on-off signals it receives. My Vair would 'go nuts' with random short-like firing of the coil at elevated temperatures. LOOKED like a bad coil breaking down. But repeated flooding with compounds not to be mentioned now(this was testing on the Palm Springs grade at 110F+ in the early 90's) had no effect. Dumbfounded that it WAS NOT the coil, in desperation I started flooding EACH COMPONENT in turn which was either in the engine bay, or in some way connected to the coil. It ended up being the Spearco Water Injection Controller. Somehow when it got hot, it did something to the negative side of the coil (where it took a tach input...but apparently could backfeed and screw up the coil) which made it randomly fire at crazy intervals or simply ground out completely and die. I suspect a diode in the input circuit of the board going bad...but I disconnected it and the problem never came back... I would never have thought it was the Water Injection Controller in a million years unless I'd flooded it with 'quick evaporating coolant' and the thing stopped misfiring and acting up RIGHT THEN AND THERE! So try again if you haven't, and go straight back to High RPM / High Load after cold-soaking the coil or other suspect components. If it stops, you have it. My assumption is this doesn't happen when the engine is cold...
BTW, 45C is not 'insane hot' not by a longshot! Those numbers I gave started at 33C at just before sunup, with humidity so high a thick fog blankets the area. It's miserable hot, and by noon, when it's 50+ you thank your stars the humidity has 'evaporated'! Wrap a water-soaked rag over your face to get humidity to breathe into your lungs...
As for 45C, add 98% humidity to it and you realize 45C in Phoenix ain't that hot at all. It rarely exceeds 120F there anyway, it's not THAT hot!
There are places around the world where it's hotter, or just as hot but with oppressive humidity that just goes away to nothing during the day! Nah, Phoenix is a 'vacation mecca' comparatively. Very mild climate...
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"My car is a 1980 ZX, a California model. So, it has none of the smog handling equipment that the Federal model had."
That's a first for me: Seeing someone say the California model had LESS Garbage than 49 state cars!
What it sounds like is you guys up there are doing the old Bar 90 style Idle and 2500 Static Test.
It should not be an issue, and like BRAAP mentions, this test should pass an EFI ZX running properly WITHOUT a catalyst!
Seriously, if you car can't pass idle and 2500, you really shouldn't be driving it till you get it fixed---you got to be REALLY out there to fail that test. It isn't very strenuous!
My 66 Corvair passed without AIR on it, and my 73 with SU's would pass to 83 Specs in that same test with a malfunctioning AIR pump pushing air (kinda) into ONE primary of the HEADER on the car at the time.
I wouldn't sweat it, like the one guy said: if it doesn't cost anything and there are no ramifications from going in to test for free...test it and if it passes pay for the cert and don't look back!
Most smog-phobia is wrought by those who never have done it, and fear it for some reason. If your car is running well, or even reasonably well, there usually is no reason to fear a test.
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When it happens, jump out, take your can of Radio-Shack FREEZ-IT and ****** the coil, jump back in and see if it goes away. <EDIT> My gawd, the German word for 'shower' is not acceptable to the censor-bot! O.K. "SPRAY" it, don't use the word also associated with feminine hygiene (or German for 'shower') because it's BAD!
<EDIT> If it does, you have heat related issues with the coil. If not, then continue with the electronic components until you have eliminated all of them. Then it's something fuel related.
If you think it's heat (insanely hot? What, like 53C at 1130AM and rising higher to a peak over 55C at somewhere between 3-5PM...
) then get a can of Freez-It and start cooling the components to see if that is what it is---this is how you do it with the ignitor module, it will work on virtually any electrical component to isolate heat-related issues.In the bad-old, pre Global Warming Scare days, I would have told you to shoot a freon horn at the component, or use R12 in a can since everybody had it laying around. But I can't say ****** it with your little can of R134 because that would be wrong today...
Freezing bearing shafts with a 20# can of R22 and a gauge set hose is probably frowned upon these days as well...
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I have found lug nuts in there as spacers...
I think washers may be a bit lighter.
Spacing the fan is what you do if you don't have the right clutch in stock and need clearance. No biggie. Make it fit.
The reason the fan is plastic is the overhung load is reduced to effectively nothing. There is more load on the bearings of the clutch unit when the fan is moving air, than on the bearings of the water pump from weight (think why they went from the metal fan on the early 240's...)
Frankly, overtightened belts on the alternator have done in more bearings in water pumps than fan overhung moments!
The ZX Fan on a ZX Clutch is close to the radiator, in some chassis close enough you want to make sure you have good motor mounts! It's really close if you have a four-core. But it clears. Where the mounting tabs are is the fan difference, in addition to blade count in some cases. The clutches can be 'made to fit' using spacers, no problems, like you said, just use longer bolts. A nice machined spacer ring (or thin ones so you can adjust the fan position in 5mm incremets...hint hint) would make things easier. Were they made of phenolic or lexan/polycarbonate sheet that would keep them lighter than aluminum as well, for those concerned about that kind of thing. Titanium would be overkill, but really give you bragging rights! Then again, with a CNC Machining Center, you could probably make a billet Titanium fan with the offset you wanted and then polish it up to look REALLY KILLER (literally as well as figuratively!)
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Seriously! That was how you did it in the 70's! It's harder to find a relining place now, but if you're a shop rat like me, who feels comfortable walking with white sneakers in pools of oil and rubbing up against greasy axles you can still find places to do it. There's a lot of truck places near where I live, and a couple of hours searching found me a shop that would do it.
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Anyone see any wrecked GTOs yet? lol.
Yep, all OVER Australia!
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As has been pointed out to me on occasion 'aircraft are different than automobiles'...
From the source I hate to use, but at 2AM it comes in handy:
"The inter prefix in the device name originates from historic compressor designs. In the past, aircraft engines were built with charge air coolers that were installed between multiple stages of supercharging, thus the designation of inter."
Going further, the differentiate the 'end of the supercharging train...
"Modern automobile designs are technically designated aftercoolers because of their placement at the end of supercharging chain. This term is now considered archaic in modern automobile terminology since most forced induction vehicles have single-stage superchargers or turbochargers although "aftercooler" is still in common use in the piston engined aircraft industry."
When looking at the engineering aspects of designing the compression ratios in the engine system, the engine is simply another stage of compression, and final compression ratio will be determined by intercooling efficiency and final inlet air conditions to the engine (final compression stage) to prevent (or aid) in self-ignition of the fuel in the combustion chamber.
When you view it this way (as you should for design purposes) they're all intercoolers, as they all are performing the same efficency enhancing job on the next stage of compression.
It also comes from this 'American English' crap... Changing names just to do it...like inventing 'Series 1' 240's...
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I go because I'm in town. I have literally flown halfway around the world, gotten in the car and the airport, and then taken a 2 hour drive through traffic to make my club meeting, only to listen to wankers complain 'it's too far to drive here and meet every month!'
I'm not charitable after a 20 hour+ plane ride to listen to that crap!
When I was in town more, it was a chance to get away and talk cars with guys till way later than I should in the parking lot, make calls to the streetwalkers across the street, and listen to the same panhandler each month come around about 2300 and give us the most perfect story about what happened and why we should give him money. The regulars would all look at ME for the sign to give him the 'you gave us that one last month dude' talk. Always let him get close to finishing, it was artistry how he had it all worked out and if flowed so smoooothly... Took him a good 4 months to get the hint that we weren't the usual hangabouts in the parkinglot at 11pm!
Plus, it always got me a part, or a lead on a part, or someone giving away a car, or wanting something from one of mine...
It really turns into the same people doing all the work if you aren't careful. People are takers today, no 'give back' exists in their being. And then they wonder why clubs fold after the same people run it for 6 years and get tired with nobody showing to events, or running for officers positions, or making suggestions, or in general doing ANYTHING other than showing up and expecting to be entertained.
What gets me is the scum that shows for months on end without paying their dues to the club, and sponging off the generosity of the clubmembers in giving him leads for parts, or letting them come on runs, etc... Christ you sponge, HAVE SOME CLASS!
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Look at the Turbo Manifold, and you will see the PCV is forward of the N/A location.
Getting a Turbo PCV Hose will show you EXACTLY where you need to put it, and give you a good properly heat-rated hose for the application.
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That would be an intercooler and aftercooler!
The word intercooler is improperly used most of the time. Technically, most "intercoolers" people talk about are actually aftercoolers.
And that's my fun fact of the day!
We went through this before, and as someone who works in the multi-staged compressor business cooling BETWEEN stages is INTERCOOLING, and cooling after the final stage to point of use is AFTERCOOLING.
Since a single, or multiple compressor stages are simply preparing the air for the FINAL STAGE of compression (in the ENGINE) they all are INTERCOOLERS.
As to Nelsonian's thought on multiples being more efficient: ONLY if they are INTERCOOLED. The thermal dynamics of compression can not be changed without intercooling. If you cool the charge BETWEEN stages, you then get better efficiency in steps.
BUT, if the compression ratio you wish is less than about 2 or 3:1 it gets VERY hard to justify multiple stage compression since the efficency of one-stage compression will be upwards of 82% in your typical turbocompressor of today. And that will be EXTREMELY hard to beat with two compressors running at 1.5:1 and intercooled unless you have residual cooling from a 'bank' like an ice chest to give you less than ambient temperature into the second stage of compression, and then again before the final stage of compression in the engine. Lots of work for marginal payback.
Generally compound charging is used in things like diesel tractors to get 200+ PSI of manifold pressure. They used water into the stages as coolant to take advantage of high latent heat and state change to cool somewhat and keep efficiencies up.
In Air Compressors for Industrial usage, the breakpoint generally is around 55psi for 1 and 2 stage compressors. You CAN get 55psi out of one stage of compression, but two gives better power consumption. Next breakpoint is around 100psi, where you CAN get away with two stages of compression, but three gives better power consumption. I've run PET Centrifugals on surge tests at over 700psi(g) on a four stage turbocompressor, with stage pressures of 30, 120, 320, and 700psi ultimately, with a working pressure on the 4th stage of 580PSI all day long, 24/7. The last stage having a different compression ratio depending on what they chose to operate at, but generally this is about 3:1 compression ratio per stage.
So if you want to consider multiple stages of compression, and lower pressures...knowing a single stage can get great efficiency at 3:1 (and automotive turbochargers are a bit more radical now, having ratios over 4:1!!!) you would do well to consider closely the mechanical complexity you are adding for minimal gains in efficiency.
But again, I digress.
That 'aftercooler/intercooler' thing gets me every time. They're intercoolers, the final stage of compression is the engine.
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Searching on relocating technique?
Been done, and illustrated...both ways!
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Amen Brother! Just state 225 or 240: LISTENING VENDORS???? At LEAST put that descriptor along with the gobdleygook about what it's 'supposed' to come in!
I know 225, and 240mm. I can tell that in the JUNKYARD on an engine sitting in a pile ready to go to the smelter...
The hagher performance frictional facings for the disc really make a difference. The stock heavy Nissan Cover seems to work well. I get stockers refaced at a truck relining place, they have the feramic and woven metallic facings there and heavy riveter to pop pop pop the facings on in half a day and away I go with another pile of clutch discs!
Not as cheap as the place outside Kunsan AFB Korea, by the Bus Stop. Every TDY up with a BAG full of toasted stockers, and back with a C-Bag full of profit waiting to be made!
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In Abu Dhabi they recently outlawed Children Camel Jockeys, and are now experimenting with monkeys and robotic jockeys to gain a competitive advantage. Perhaps they are on to something you should look into Barnardd?
Yes, only I would make the comment...
And yes, there really ARE Camel Jockeys, it's not pejorative, it's descriptive!
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280ZX Lip Spoilers:
BTW, did you guys know there is a G-Nose kit for a 350Z available in Japan???
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flywheel surface are on all coupes and non turbo cars is 225mm surface. The 2+2s and turbo zx's had a 240mm surface
Same goes for the clutch, but normally they will say it in inches so like 8.8 inches to 9.5 inches
Even on a 1974 260Z 2+2?
Tsk Tsk Tsk!
The question is really a poorly phrased one, the answer is "Yes they all bolt on and will fit with the right accessory package (clutch disc, pressure plate, and proper throw out collar.)" Generally the more correct answer would be "You have 225mm Flywheels, and 240mm flywheels, depending on what you want to do will determine which one you want to buy for your application, they all fit in the tranny the same."
If he's buying a flywheel, it doesn't matter what 'supposed' to go where. I have 2 of the 260Z 2+2's and they came with 225mm clutches. That's what is in my 77 and 76 Fairlady Z's with L28's as well as my 73 Turbo 240Z with 348HP at the rear wheels.
IMO unless you are really over 350 ft-lbs of torque and pushing a HEAVY car, the 240mm clutch is likely overkill.
A 225mm with proper facing on the disc will hold a LOT of torque. My 73 is not exactly 'lightweight' either---especially with ME in it...and those 265's out back BITE. Haven't had slippage issues in 40K miles of hard turbo driving.
The internet inconsistencies with "The 2+2 Clutch" are making it more difficult to determine exactly what people are selling or trying to buy. If they would simply measure and determine the dimensions that Blu Destiny gave and sell/inquire/buy based simply on 225 and 240mm EVERYBODY would be better off and FAR less confused.
It's not a 'Turbo Clutch' it's a '240 mm Clutch'!
And the pressure plates are not simply 225 or 240 mm, the 225's are separated into the L28 and earlier clutches (not to throw in the finger height dimension or collar distance.)
There is no 'Five Speed' and 'Four Speed' pressure plate combination... argh!
Frankly, whatever car I get, one of the first things I do is buy a clutch package for it and sit it on the shelf. Standardized on "1975 280Z"---that way EVERYTHING has the same 225mm disc, pressure plate, throwout collar, and bearing. The only thing I get differently dependent on torque output of the engine is the facing on the clutch. All use the same 780KG Factory Nissan HD Pressure Plate. Makes life easier.
The old clutches from the 240's I give to my kid to keep him happy with the L20B in the 510 Wagon: "Kid you got 8 lifetime supplies of clutch discs for that car, don't ever think of BUYING one!!!"
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I've heard very good things about Sunrise Z in Glendale. I also know of Classic Datsun, and know they do top notch stuff, not sure how they are with swaps though.
Classic Datsun?
They do brisk business putting FJ20 and SR20's into roadsters. And a while ago Les had picked up an RB 20 on the thoughts that he would use it to make a 'poor mans' Z432 out of his Fairlady Z that he was Auto-Xing at the time.
I think Classic Datsun has swaps covered. And withe McKinney just up the road a piece in Temecula they can have the prefab hard parts in a day by company truck.
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Let us know what happens and how bad it really was---photos would be nice.
Mine was completely separated when I got under there to check.
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Are those old Triumph Tiger Carbs (before they went to EFI???) Unique solution indeed.
I'm with John Coffey up to the 5psi low boost turbo part... It's amazing the boost response you get in a well ported and cammed engine. But I agree you should just sell it as-is and start another dedicated build.
Why go to the UK, doesn't Miroux do that work on the side? They have a nice 240 they run at Spa 6 Hours every year. Though I'm apparently banned from their pits (as well as Frank 280ZX) after questioning the F54 block "L24" they SWEAR they are using to run times equivalent to GT350 Shelby's around the course there...
Speaking of which, if you go to Spa Sept 23,24,25 look for me, I should be there! Hanging around the S30's that show up for sure!
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"I do agree that going with the 2.8 will add the sought after power with the same setup however, it would drive cost up."
The costs for the head work will dwarf what a used, good running L28 will run you, and you will have the all important torque that you won't have with the L26.
I'm with John Coffee on this one, tune up the engine properly and you will make the most you can. But the cam on an L26 is not the same as on an L28, so the torque production is higher in the RPM band.
I'm not saying change to an L28 cam, I'm saying just change to the L28 if you absolutely MUST pay money to do something to the car. You will get a performance profile on the cam in line with lower end torque (all - in by 5500rpms, peak power at 52-5300) and larger displacement to boot.
If you are considering the 3.3, then don't do anything at all to the head or CR of the L26, it's wasted effort for no gain. A tune up will make more HP.
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Bumper Cars! My favorite!!!
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It can actually be the cause. This was EXACTLY what caused it in my 260Z. It was not present in a form I could feel in lower gears, but at over 80mph there was a vibration that got BAD. The tranny mount was letting the tailshaft lift up under load and the angularity introduced only during these high-load excursions was very pronounced.
At lower speeds in lower gears it simply was either passed through too quickly to notice, or was not loaded enough to delfect the tailshaft upwards enough to be an issue.
Tie the back of the tranny down so it can't change your driveshaft angularity, and you should cease having that problem if your driveline angles are otherwise correct.
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A 'compound' charged setup is multi-stages of compression. Turbo 1 feeds Turbo 2 feeds Turbon...
Of course it could be a crankshaft mounted supercharger, feeding a higher speed belt-overdriven supercharger, with a turbo feeding the inlet of the whole schebang... or an integrally geared double supercharger one feeding the other before going to the engine...
A 'twin' charged is more marketing to differentiate it, but isn't normally compounded (one feeding into another) rather two different styles of superchargers working at different times. Supercharger runs from idle to X,000rpms while boost from Turbo comes up to a point where a bypass is opened and the turbo takes over from X,000 to redline. Or perhaps a gear driven supercharger for lower rpms, while a centrifugal belt driven supercharger takes over at higher rpms and the lower speed unit is bypassed.
I would stay away from 'Twins' simply due to complexities related to the bypass.
As for compounded? Muahahaha!
<EDIT> 
260z with five speed
in S30 Series - 240z, 260z, 280z
Posted
"Factory Five Speed" as in meaning it was made in a factory? Probably.
But no US Market 260's left Japan with anything other than a 4 speed. Someone swapped.