Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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So, Can I cap off the TB line and the intake manifold line and leave the fuel hard line connected to the charcoal chamber? Or would that not work.?
You would save the weight of the tubing that you removed...what is your goal anyway? What are you after? Is the cannister suspect in a malfunction, are you troubleshooting, what do you expect to gain by the removal---why do you want to remove it?
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Wouldnt nissan have the original molds in storage? Im guessing they wouldnt throw that kind of thing away.
Im amazed that no aftermarket company make a head. My friend has a 250 strait six mustang and they sell an aftermarket 4 valve head. I think theres more interest in z's then strait six mustangs.
LOL, there are more straight-six mustangs in one year than total domestic production of the S30 series from 69-77! You underestimate the interest in domestic fare in the USA...though I have never heard of a four valver for the Inline Six---anybody for a 5.0L Inline Six Four Valve head?
Nissan destroyed almost everything to do with the early Z Cars during 'the turmoil' in the 80's... Datsun was a Baaaaad word then!
Datsun didn't make the head anyway, I suspect Hitachi did it...or Fuji Heavy...
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When they have a title, they sell complete. When they don't have a title, they figure selling as parts is 'the only option'...
Like peddling stolen components is any different than selling the car as a whole anyway...
Not casting aspersions, just an observation of the uninitiated. In parts, the car is worth more, anyway.
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Wow, seeing the two of them side by side really indicates some visible differences. Guess that 'shortness' has to do with the bumper shocks and extra shielding they put around the mufflers on the EFI cars... Anybody got some side by side shots of the 260 tank next to the 280? I have also swapped 260 tanks into 240's using the longer bolts...and from what I recalled the external dimensions were similar to the 240/280 tank comparo as shown above. On the 260 to 280 swap as I recall, all I did was back the nuts on the 'j' bolts out further to make the tank slip in, so the 260/280 tank may be external dimensional clones, the only difference being the pickups and possibly the baffling internally...
BTW, the second sensor on the 280 tank sender unit is a capacitance unit that lights the red 'low fuel' light in the gas gauge on the later cars. A nice feature if you're like me, and know "I can go 72 miles from the time the light turns on in the Truck"... Makes a difference when Eherenberg is only 68 miles away, and that simply crossing the border from Blythe to Exit 1 on the Arizona Side means gas for 30 cents a gallon cheaper! LOL
Great Photos, BTW. That makes explanations much easier!
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Nice!
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Where do we get low pressure high vol pumps, or what's a good place to shop around? quality names?
V8 Carburettor Fuel Pumps
I have seen mechanical fuel pumps used to flood the electrical pumps' tank...
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Yeah, CO2 will work to dessicate it as well, it's -110, pretty dry!
The key is hot gas has more capability to hold water, than cold gas. The cold gas will be 100% Relative Humidity of -110F (for CO2-which is not much water carrying capability at all---it's dry enough to be used in alcohol to dessicate A/C systems in the old days, but that's another discussion) but then heat that same gas to 100Degrees, and it has a R/H of like 1%---meaning it will be able to actually carry out much more water vapor in the purge stream. Basically air can do the same thing---heat your air to 350F, and the air you had in the oven that started at 75 degree 100% RH will be maybe 1% R/H at 350 degrees. That hot air has a great carrying capability to carry the moisture out of the tank, out the purge holes to elsewhere where it will dissipate or condense. Same thing as condensation in an exhaust pipe. As the exhaust cools, it's capability to hold water decreases, and the liquids condense out. Running the engine speed up gets that hot hot hot gas to the tailpipe where it is still less than say 10% R/H, but upon dissipating in the atmosphere and cooling you condense out side the tailpipe. Hot goes out carrying water. If you heat the tank it's similar, but having a warmed cryogenically produced gas to carry out the moisture will be more effective than simply heating it.
Back to the Surge Tank Design Discussion, I mentioned the 42" tall tanks as an extreme example. They weren't more than 4" in diameter, so that's about a 10:1Ratio. A 2" diameter pipe would have similar separation at only 20" tall. The big thing to bring away is the taller is it, the better it can separate any air that eventually manages to get into it---and the key to keeping it flooded is to make that return line pass through the surge tank on the way back to the main tank.
Someone used a Fish Aquarium Filter Housing---I thought it was brilliant! Matter of fact I helped install one, and damned if it didn't look like it was MADE to house a fuel pump! Anything that is 'drill a few holes and use it' is eminently efficient, simply from a work output standpoint. I'm all for ease of construction, absolutely!
BTW, this meshes nicely as a side factoid about the Accumulator/Dryers form AC systems. When they are "Rebuilt" many times they are simply baked at 350+ for three hours. This will dry out totally the Activated Alumina or Silica Gel used in them. As long as it gets corked up well, it will not adsorb any water from the atmosphere. This is the same material that is in compressed air dryers---and those are either regenerated by heating the beds when moisture saturated and then purging them with a 'polishing airflow' from the downstream side of the dryer to bring the beds up to room temperature. Or you can simply 'purge' the saturated tower with about 15% of the output flow from the downstream side of the dryer---and that -40 or -110 degree air will suck out that moisture from the beads and take it out the vent to atmosphere.
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NO!
Don't put LN2 into the tank, the rapid expansion and chilling may dessicate the tank but the cooling (if corked decently) can suck the tank down like a beercan and will definately frost the exterior and cause moisture formation in just about any climate! Besides, it's not needed.
A good purge will dry it out, and then if Argon follows it will work nicely for welding without using too much gas.
But LN2 on the sound deadening would be KILLER!
If you have access to the gas at cost, to enhance the dessication of the tank you can make a 'preheater coil' of stainless steel (I guess you could use copper as well)---loop a 1/4" line several times around a small diameter object and run a flame in the center of it from a MAPP or Propane torch. The 'dryness' of the N2 from the bottle will be inanced by the increase in the temperature, allowing it to suck up more moisture and carry it out of the tank. We are talking a fairly low flow rate if you only use a couple of coils---a more densely cpacked coil will of course allow the gas to be heated more efficiently. Hot Gas Purging is a better idea than cool gas purging. Usually this is to make sure no gasoline residues remain, but in this case we're pulling water out.
Chances are you will do all your modifications, flush it with acid, dry it out, and then slosh it with the tank coating befroe reinstallation.
Purging before welding was the primary focus of my original post, dessication before sloshing may not be required if they use an alcohol-based slushing compound (some aircraft types)---if this is the case, make sure it is compatible with current fuel stocks. I know Aircraft Spruce had an issue with their original compounds when they started oxygenating with Alcohols, and the tank slushing compounds ( some times in place for 15-20+ years!) started coming up due to the alcohol present in the new gasoline formulations. They came out with a new formulation that is not alcohol soluable.
Which brings us to dessication for po' folks: If you have 99% Alcohol, splash some in the tank, and drain it out...let it sit in the sun. As a dessication process before slushing (NOT before welding!) that is fairly efficient as the alcohol will suck up the water, and will evaporate without leaving a residue with application of minimal heat.
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It WILL act up with the stock FPR in there, there is too much fuel with the 300cc injectors, about 25% too much. Either lower your fuel pressure 25% (not a good idea) or do the AFM Rig to lean it out while on the flapper.
Problem with the Bosch System is you are better off keeping stock injectors and playing with a Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator than you are installing bigger injectors. With stock injectors, off-boost drivability remians as stock, and under boost additional fueling is taken care of by raised fuel pressure.
I'd get Megasquirt ordered now, and just start reading on how to tune it. You will be better off in the long run!
With 300CC injectors you will be in the area of 75-80 psi requirement at 13psi of boost. If they were stock 280ZX injectors you would be in the range of 100psi and about maxed out.
Hope you got a good fuel pump! You didn't mention it, and if it's a stocker, you will stangnate the fuel flow at around 60psi when the internal relief valve lifts---then you run lean and go 'boom'!
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Yes, if you look at the J-Bolts that secure the tank in the 280, you will see there is one that is substantially longer than the other. Two of those and you are set as far as getting it to work.
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If you purge from nitrogen bottles, there is no reason for heat to be applied, the N2 is superr-dehydrated, and if you cork the fittings and leave only a small pin prick for the N2 to escape (fill through the 1/4" top vent, and off gas through all other openings through small holes) any moisture in the tank, and the pores of the metal will be desiccated through the N2 passing over the metal, and out the vent holes. You can leave the N2 on the tank while welding and the backsides of the weld will look really nice as well!
"Inert Gas Purge" is what you really want to do, but most people don't have N2 Available (or didn't) at the time, and the exhaust gas purge was a pretty common thing to to with the old timers. With cars running less than 8% O2 content in the exhaust today after the catalyst, it definately will not support combustion, and the heat helps liberate any solvents from the metal as well.
Argon would work, but is much more expensive than N2. Any cryogenically-derived gas will have low/zero moisture content by virtue of the distillation process. This stuff is made a -200 Degrees F and colder, ain't no moisture content there! It went away 232 degrees ago! What you worry about in cryo plants is CO2 plugs as it turns to liquid, and then freezes solid at only -110F, and that can ruin your day trying to cool down a box for N2 or O2...Nothing like taking a rosebud torch into rockwool to 'melt out' a CO2 Ice Plug in an O2 enriched environment! LOL
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Luckily I have a 1-ton rated Gantry at the house, and can use large nylon slings to lift the body...
Or the Forklift, if I ever get this damn concrete contractor to come out and give me a firm price! Dug it out a month ago, got all the stakes in...but no way am I doing THIS much concrete. 4 yards, maybe...not this much!
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Well, I didn't say it was cheap. When I worked on the landfill I had access to that size P.E. piping, as well as a MacElroy Fusion Machine...You want to talk about 'abusing the system' I had the best high-impact storage vessels on the planet, Sch 80 HDPE Piping with threaded covers!
It's one of the reasons I bug people about getting mine back nowadays, those Black P.E. storage cases I made went away 10 years ago, and never came back! I know who they went to, and some day I WILL be in the neighborhood and RECLAIM THEM!
The large military surplus containers I used in the past were Rocket Boxes. Could fit a whole intake system in one, and they have nice preformed foam cradles that work great if you wrap cardboard around the crank throws to make them a more manageable 'round' shape. You can fit three-four cranks in a standard rocket box. They are just the right length for L6 Cranks and Cams, and heads if you take the towers off.
My supply of those ended when I was no longer attached to the Munitions Maintenance Squadron back in 86... Bummer! More wonderful 'endless supply' items that I gave away and now lament...
I'll also add that during my time with Cooper Industries when we would do up Turbochargers for Overseas, we coated the internals by flowing STP through the oil passages. I have found that using STP Raw makes for a VERY persistent coating when undistrubed, for that 'rotational' idea GV had, that may work so you only have to rotate them semi-annually. I can get real Cosmoline, and a couple of good coats and corking it up while still volatile seems to keep the corrosion at bay for great periods of time with minimal fuss. Heck, let's pack a Jeep in it! LOL
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To dry mine, and in homage to my Germanic roots, I attached a 'gopher gasser hose' to the tailpipe of the VW, and pumped the tank full of exhaust gas...nice warm exhaust gas (leave out the sender, pump it in through the tank filler, or sender hole). Tank may get some condensation in it if the hose is relatively short and the gas is really hot, but you can't argue that it gets a nice, complete inert-gas purge before any welding repairs are done, and since it heats up nicely any moisture inside is dried out pretty quickly. This is how we did it when I was in Body Class 20+ years ago... Still do it that way today.
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Yes, that was what I was getting at as well, turn off the accel and then work it back in slowly.
The numbers are a rate of change, the difference between 300/s and 100/s is three times the 'quickness' of depressing the throttle. That is what I was getting at by the difference between 'rolling on' the throttle to pass when there is plenty of time, and giving it a quick stab like when you're revving the engine at a stoplight. If you have your mixture tuned correctly, you will be able to 'roll on' at speed and notice no stumbling, but when you stab it there will be a little stumble till airspeed catches up. AFter you have 'slow roll-on' response set, you can then work on accel enrichments slowly bringing in threshold till it triggers when you stab the throttle and you don't get the accel stumble.
The numbers have to be pretty high for them not to come on---I may have misused 'spiking' in my earlier post, but your datalog shows pretty clearly that ANY change in the TPS reading---even 1% will trigger an accel or decel event. That is way too sensitive.
Turn off all your accel/decel enrichments by setting the threshold setting skyhigh while you are tuning---what you have is a situation where your VE tables and Injector pulsewidth will NEVER have any direct link because of all the accel/decel events tweaking the mixture.
As for plug reading, if they are sooty black then you're rich. That's all most people can reliably tell. You can NOT read spark plugs by reading the extended tip of the porcelan---that is incorrect reading methodology, if you use that you will ALWAYS be one or two jet sizes too rich! You have to use a loupe with a ring magnifier/illuminator to see what the color of the porcelan is at the base juncture where the metal meets it way up inside the plug body. This short surface, just maybe a mm or mm and a half wide is the section of the porcelan that is cool enough to NOT burn-off deposits and give a TRUE mixture reading when a clean-cut is done.
I have had people say 'well when I read them your way it's always telling me they are rich!' Well, Duuuuuh! That's because THEY ARE!
A nice tan tip out by the electrode will be black and sooty at the base---because you are rich! It's just that during normal operation the extended tip is running so hot it will combust the soot that normally would be deposited there as part of the combustion cycle. You have to look where the porcelan is COOL and can't alter the reading by self-cleaning (patented) properties of a tapered-extended tip porcelan center electrode insulator.
Good Luck!
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My main bone of contention is the 'you don't need porting'...
Boost is merely a measurable manifestation of restriction to flow.
If your engine does not pump air efficiently, or 'flow well' then, yes, of course, you will need 'maximum boost' per the title of the book.
But if you build an engine utilizing proper and sound engineering principles, the boost you need for any given horsepower level will be considerably less.
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I really like that dash. I jumped in on page three, and was trying to figue out what dash it was....then I realized it was an S130 dash and went "OH COOOOOL!"
Nice work.
After the company is a success, and you are exploiting the labor of others to your own benefit, you will have more money and time to spend on thesee type of things....LOL
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64'th?
What system is that?
I guess is slightly better than .5mm which is 'eyeball close' on my tapes...LOL
I agree, jig the car up level, and use a laser level. They take a lot of the guesswork out of where stuff is really going. Even if it's not level, if it has the 'level reset' feature it's as easy as setting the angle on the tranny output flange, and then sticking it on the differential flange and reading the angular misalignment...you can go to a 1/10th of a degree on most of the digital levels.
It will take you longer to read this post than it will to actually do the procedure.
Now that I think about it, you probably don't have the diffy moveable, so you would do it in reverse...measure the pinion angle, and then match the engine/trans angle to what you have in the back.
I use one that was given to me at work for machinery alignment checks. It changed a procedure that formerly used machined bars and depth micrometers from a 2 hour procedure to one that takes less than 2 minutes. Most of that was simply set up of indicators!
Good Luck.
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Like Cap Jack said, a little cutting on a 3.8L V6 Taurus Fan Shroud and it looks like it was a Nissan Product! Some other fans may require more attention, or maybe my definition of 'a lot' is different than other people's. You might want to take a look, and not discount something out-of-hand before judging firsthand for yourself. A Taurus fan is a saleable commodity if you think it's not your bag of tea---you won't have to sit on it long. It's a junkyard part anyway, just keep the cost low and if you don't like the way it looks when you hold it up there, sell it!
I have dual 10" fans on one of the other cars, because at the time the single didn't move enough air. I would put nothing on there that didn't move at least 5000CFM to give it cycle time.
I find my cars usually run about 30-35mph in top gear on the hottest days before the temperature will rise above thermostat control, meaning the radiator is not rejecting the heat. If you figure the stock S30 Radiator has about 2 square feet of surface area exposed to airflow, and 30 mph is half of 60mph (5280 linear feet per minute) you come up with 5280 Cubic Feet per minute that should be able to pass across the radiator at 30mph...
Figure if I start overheating without a fan at that speed, I should have a fan that moves at least that much or I will have something that will overheat. As it turned out, it cycles nicely only when I'm in stop-n-go. Never have a fan coming on at anything above 30 mph, no matter how hot it's getting.
Similar for the Taurus Fan, it cycles, and like someone said in another post, High Speed is probably overkill for most applications. But I like the fan to come on, COOL IT DOWN, and then shut off. I use an 80Amp relay to switch it...I found the amperage rating of most relays is a surge rating, and when you put a 30Amp fan that draws 30 amps on a 30Amp (name brand begins with a "B") relay, they pretty much don't last very long at all, and get HOT as hell. Using the same manufacturer's 80 amp relay (bigger contacts and spades on the bottom) gives flawless operation.
Cost for the Taurus Fan is a factor as well. For $30 at the junkyard, I could literally pull it out, remount it in a frame I weld together from scraps, and be happy I didn't spend big bucks on something that may or may not work.
If you get those CFMs mentioned above, you should be O.K., I'd simply not trust what a Fan OEM says about what it will cool or not. I'll make my decision on the CFM it moves and go from there. Got burned by manufacturers claims before, and since figuring out the CFM thing, haven't had a bad application yet!
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Chrome, make it chrome, gentlemen! Everybody knows the chrome one will make the most speed and power!
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Makes a neat sound when the engine is running as well. "Auditory Bling"---though the uninitiated will make comments like 'you need to get your power steering pump fixed'! :Roll Eyes: What can you do with some people?
I know the cam timing is very precise after installation. The movement of the cam was very tightly linked to the crankshaft position in forward or reverse. When timing the cam, if you happen to bump the crankshaft without knowing it, the indicator can move several degrees...with this setup, you see the cam move IMMEDIATELY!
Nice!
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Ya know, I thought the exact same thing naviathan...at least decently competent at soldering since I'd been through a NASA Certified Soldering Class like 20 years ago. how hard can it be, right? First unit worked pretty well till it went mysteriously DOA. Even Pete couldn't explain that one...
But the other two ended up getting sent to Pete who remedied a few items he found, and then tested them running his car with them. The key (IMO) if you make your own is to have someone else nearby where you can plug your box into his car and run it. If it runs, then you know it's nothing 'you did'.
Since I disregarded PRIMARY RULES set out by Moby, I was in a quandary where elimination through substitution was the only option. After Pete ran my boxes, I KNEW they were good. With an HOUR of getting one back in the car, I had a good fix on what really WAS the problem (Intermittent Heat-Related Failure with my 81 CAS) and within another 45 minutes I'd definately confirmed it and taken steps to remedy it.
Since finding the bad CAS (Rule #1 on Moby's Suggestions: Buy a car or donor with a RUNNING engine, so you know it works! Mine was a Takeout Junkyard Engine with components scrounged from two different sources) the car has been running fine.
If you have a place to test the box, you can put it together for yourself with basic skills, but having some place to test your boxes outside just a Megastimulator is a good thing to have available.
But I digress, Navi, are you sure it's not something in the box failing? (The Devil in me needs to feed a self-doubt in your soledering skills---LOL)
For someone who hasn't done anything before...and this really sounds bizzare, but I'd recommend buying both an assembled unit and a kit. You CAN get the components for about $60-80, with the board if you are dilligent in searching. Go through the motions of assembling one, while you have a good, known unit that you install. The procedure of assembling the box really helped me understand what the circuitry does. I may have baked this component or that, but when Pete told me what he had found---I at least knew where the components were, and what they were doing and could translate that to the problems I was having.
I may not have been able to diagnose it myself, but when it was explained to me, the explanation made sense!
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When I did 'The Megasquirt Dance' in the back yard, my wife simply said "How long till I can drive it to work?"
You should count your blessing there is a disconnect on your wife---you can take your time instead of getting 'when is that thing going to be ready for me to drive?'
You met her, you can realize if I drop off the "Trail of the Z" I will hear about it! And how! LOL
Good News on the first 'smoke test'---I guess it passed, no extingusihers were expended, a good thing!
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I am a firm believer in appliance-derived floorboards! Washing Machines make good floorboards for 510s! LOL
Good exhaust shop in OC or nearby? $500 to $600 quotes.....
in Exhaust
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That would be a welcome 'gloat post' at another site on this subject! LOL
As far as materials goes, meh...that's a wash. It's having the damn bender and the labor time to weld one up from pieces that is the 'competitive' issue. On an S30, the system isn't nearly as complex as an S130, but if it's a one-piece from the tranny junction to the muffler out back (downpipe separate) I can see that price.
Doing it from bends you cut and piece together, and buying the tubing, doing it yourself that way will kill a day...so the price I would compare to is that in my case.
Many times if you split it so they can run the tubes in the machine and get the angles correct in two separate bends it's usually cheaper. For a car that will have the tranny removed regularly (no aspersions, just something to think about) flanging to the rear of the tranny makes for lower costs in bending, and for maintenance access later.
FYI, the Trust?GReddy exhausts are flanged at the downpipe near the engine/tranny flange, then again rearward of the tranny. This may be for shipment or packaging, but having flat flanges at the rear of the tranny makes dropping it a snap. 6 M10 bolts and that whole section is out of the way!
We all want PHOTOS of the system when it's done! Mandrel 3" Gaaaarrrrgh!