Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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Yes, welding the ports to allow them to be raised was a common modification. To look at the FIA L6 head, you find the ports are almost touching the valve cover gasket area---and that was a stock from Nissan casting...of course it also had water jackets that came out between the cylinders in the same area as well to prevent low-flow spots...
But yeah, raising that port will help. Filling the bottom of the port with aluminum devcon (intake only, please!) will do nice things for velocity and entrance as well...
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In the VW world, assembling the engine in the case (block) to be used and physically measuring the piston deck height is how the cut on the pistons is determined.
if you know compressed gasket thickness, I would assemble the whole thing with UNCUT pistons, do a physical measurement of the deck height of the pistons, and go from there.
You can specify the end-to-end blueprint dimension when you have your rods rechecked and honed. Whatever dimension you specify is the number you should use for your calculations. But I wouldn't cut the pistons until I trial-assembled the bottom end and physically measured the deck height.
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Wrong assumption here:
"The fact that the L24 made more horsepower than the L26 or L28 also had me a little swayed."
That is t he basis of you arguemnt or logic behind the reasoning, then you need to know that statement is false from the get-go!
Using the latest rating methodology, the L24 produced about 115-120hp, the L26 120-125, and the L28 130-135hp. Current day rear-wheel dynos will confirm this is the real case.
The Ratings systems changed along the way. At each step, the Z-Car needed more and more HP to cope with it's growing corpulence, and each successive engine had more HP that it's predecessor, mainly through more low-end torque for drivability. I have a stock L28 that honestly rear-wheel dynos to 147HP, gets 22mph towing an 800# trailer behind it at 80mph and with three people in the thing with 3.90 rear gearing, and runs consistent 15.30-50's in the 1/4 mile in 110 degree heat. Most L24's in stock form are lucky to spin the dyno wheels to 120hp.
If you are basing your logic for staying away from an L28 Transplant because you think it has less HP than an L24, you may want to rethink it.
An L24 can make horsepower, but for economy you want torque and gearing. It's how GM 3.8L V6's pull 38mpg in a boat whereas our little featherweight cars run and are lucky to get close to half that (or at least 66% of it during steady state cruise...)
I see you already have come to the conclusion that hte L28 may be a better course, but I'd caution against doing work for the sake of doing it. The L28 should bolt right in and give you near the numbers you want right out of the box without any work whatsoever. Take the money, save for as long as it's running troublefree, and do your headwork to hop it up after you have run it for a while. Better get used to the different driving technique of the L28 and maybe spend that money on a five speed transmission rather than adding expense to a head that may work well right out of the box!
My example engine above is still in the factory guise at 225+K miles. I put it in with 186K on the clock, and it's still running strong. You could save a lot of money in that timeframe---allowing you to do some more substantial renovations along the lines of your goals, rather than adding expense off the bat with something you may not even need to do!
Horsepower comes in detail, not bolt on parts or trick machining. That same car above...when I got it, it had Triple Webers, Headers, and didn't run. A quick distributor and transistor igniton swap got it fired and running reliably. A trip to the dyno had a dissapointing 86 HP to the rear wheels. Make no mistake though, it felt fast but it only produced 86HP. Some ignition wires got that to 90 rather easily. Long story short, I wasn't willing to spend the time to rejet the Webers---I sold them to someone for $650. Recouped the purchase price of the car, and put me $350 into profit as it stood! Sold the header for $25, so that got me to $375 in the black for the purchase of the car. Stuck on a complete EFI system from a 76 that I had laying around (take off from the Bonneville Car) paid $45 for a K&N Air Filter Element for the stock housing, and did a 60mm T/B modification (call it 'bought from MSA' but I'm still the cost of Polyurethane Bushings ahead at this point). That engine, the same engine, spun the same dyno to 147 to the rear wheels!!!
The cold air system I had on there, got taken off for noise issues, but there was no noticable result in the Dyno. The same 2.5" crush-bent exhaust from the headers was still on the car, better than stock I guess.
Point being I took off all the 'bolt on speed parts' and ended up almost doubling the available horsepower to the rear wheels. It didn't feel as fast, it didn't sound fast at all---it was very very quiet. Quieter than a stock 280Z to be honest. But it flies, and the numbers didn't lie!
So think long and hard about 'changing things' when the real power comes from details, and not gimmicks!
And yes, mine runs fine on 87 octane, and true to my form, found that it digested Sunoco 84 Octane "Sub-Regular" available during a trip through Michigan several years ago! Stock works, when you start performance tuning, you have to be ready for the trade-offs and compromises that will result.
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Even the stock tank will starve given good corners with stock SU's! I found that out at LVMS when the stock 240 I was driving started cutting out...1/2 tank and extended period of G's combined with a slight banking the way they had the track set up and it would start cutting out and stumbling about 80mph on the "sweeper"...
Surge Tanks are good!
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Yeah... Plenum.
Like "irregardless" it sticks sometimes...
Even I upgraded after seeing that tip on how to enable the in-scree spell checker for the text-entry window here at the Forum.
Now I look edemukated...
Nice Plenum, someone is happy with their CNC Machine! LOL
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Unless this car has a two or three digit serial number, I'd use it as a parts donor for a more solid car.
Usually the Battery Box Area is the only area requiring repair, what, specifically, makes it so bad that you would change the entire assembly, firewall forward?
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Actually, Nissan Competition manual suggested surge tanks for the triple Mikuinis as well...
Any time ges is being sucked down quickly, any interruption in flow can be disasterous, turbo or N/A!
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You don't have the 12" Sch10 Stainless Steel Fabbed BBQ Grille on the right rear---you're not set untill you can grille at the jobsite!
(Arco Pipefitters/Welders at the Wilmington Refinery have a standing 'hot work permit' for their little grille on their welding trucks for 'lunchtime'!"
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Have a propane torch on hand. When it 'floods' pull your plugs, and heat the ends till the ground strap is glowing red hot, and you don't see any orange flames coming off the end of the plug signifying wet fuel on the tip burning off. Do all six plugs, and I usually give a shot down the open hole to light off any excess fuel in the cylinders as well---it can go 'poof' with some force doing it like that...but the cylinders need to be dry.
Usually with the "hot plugs" it aids in starting when really rich.
Remember if you are WOT, you are flood clear till it fires and goes above cranking rpm---then you get FULL FUEL for the bin in question because likely you have 9X+ MAP signal.
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If you do it out back, I would run the hose up to the vapor recovery tank, make a 'double loop' and then do the venting outside the passenger area, don in the area by the filler neck, behind that plate you can remove in the Right Rear Wheel Well. The tall rise and double loop will prevent the expansion of gasoline on a hot day and full tank from rising to the point where it can puke out the end of a hose simply vented overboard from the vent fitting on the tank, and lifted minimally to clear the top of said tank.
Some of the Non-US cars were vented in that area simply by a vent tube off the filler neck---though it's a straight hose in that application, and moulded into the filler neck. I have one of those setups on my 73, and no vapor recovery line.
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I did several TDYs to Kadena AB but we never got far from the base (China Pete's for dinner ware and a Kobe beef place whose name I've forgotten...) -- Gary
"The Four Seasons", Stumbling Distance from China Petes out gate two in the opposite direction of B.C. Street...
B.C. Street got renamed "Chuo Park Avenue" before I left...
And the Four Seasons went out of business, so Kyoto was just down the street, and cheaper too!
We took noobs out to B.C. Street first, got 'em liquored up, and fed them a tale of going to get Kobe Beef at a place where "I knew the owner, and we get to pick the piece of the cow we want to eat. They will kill it right there in front of us, it's a great honor!"
Ahhhh, old times...
LOL
Oh, and the aside, there is a nice Fairlady 280ZX 2+2 moving from Fort Walton Beach this very weekend! One of my Kadena Mates is relocating BACK to Buffalo NY area (was a Plattsburgh Guy as well) with our companyn, and taking both his RHD Vehicles back north for a second time. the Fairlady ZX, and a 72 RHD Toyota Celica GTV.
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Its hot as hell in the summer but nice throughout the year and the beaches have no equals.
Okuma Recreation area Okinawa Japan: Millions of yards of Aussie White Sand dredged up and moved to make for nice GI R&R
Anderson AFB Guam...beaches are great, but when you read about the first UDT Teams in WW2 they didn't seem to like them much!
Then....maybe...just maybe...if there is ONE good thing about...(yeeeeeech) Johnston Atoll was the nice breeze (kept the Agent Orange Stockpile blowing in the right direction) all year round, and those nice little beaches....just don't slice off the mini-golfcourse or you will loose your ball for sure! LOL
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If your tank is sealed properly with all the vapor lines intact, you will need that line to have a filter on the end so the tank can 'breathe' when the fuel is siphoned out driving down the road.
I saw a clubmembers' 73 die on the side of the road with 'no fuel pressure' after 20 minutes of highway driving. Opened the gas tank thinking his 'fuel gauge was bad' and got the 'giant sucking sound'... Car ran fine for another 25-30 minutes till it started stumbling again---then we realized the filler neck was sucked right down FLAT! We were confounded by how it happened, he had just had "all the hoses replaced out back here" and figured 'waitaminit'---went up front and there was a cap on the vapor line in the engine bay. "It was capped like that years ago---I've never had a problem before!" Shore nuff, with the cap off, he drove from Palm Springs all the way back to LA without even a stumble...he ended up sticking a K&N filter from a promotional keychain on there so it looks good. LOL
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Oxy Welds in Aluminum are far more flexible and is the reason they are recomended for bodywork and fuel tanks made of aluminum.
I found that TIG and Oxy welding was very similar. I am a big torch fan, it's very versatile. I end up making work pay for my cylinder refills, since I own the tanks...my BIGGEST mistake was downsizing my O2 tank so it would fit within my service van. Damn, now it has to be replaced 2X before the Acetylene is run out. Get big tanks! I ended up getting a Victor Portable Kit for the van later on, and it works great. Even when going on club outings as a sweeper, having that torch available makes for nice roadside repairs. They dubbed me 'the rolling machine shop'! LOL
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Yeah, I have to admit that the small truck is nice for getting into plants that are congested, but having an F350 with a Powerstroke and a PTO makes for a niiiiice rig to run! Anything with a PTO in the driveline makes accessorizing easier. You can stick a big hydrostatic drive on there, and run your compressor and generator from it---and with the hydraulic lines extended, you can move those accessories around your truck or even off-truck to utilize them.
My 99 F350 Diesel got 17mpg, loaded, towing a trailer, with a sheets of plywood stuck at the front of the bed so I had a big 'wind break'...it got 17mpg running empty as well! LOL
Know it runs on Mexican Corn Oil (the red and green can with the rooster on it brand---from the supermercado in Mexicali!) as well as Canola oil...
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Fuel Temp Sensor can be 'resistored' and that should do it. I think it gets tied high on the board when guys mod it. But a resistor in the connector for the sensor with the proper resistance equal to say middle range would remove that from the equation. I don't think the speed sensor does much.
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Most of that stuff will still be there, espcially if you aren't removing the cold start stuff!
What you might look for is a "P82" manifold, it's a direct bolt in for what you have, without the EGR. Thing is the earlier manifolds have a vacuum amplifier for the EGR, but the later ones like yours don't.
There isn't a whole lot you can take off there---the vaccum lines operate your A/C, the cold start valve and the big tubing is pretty much required for those functions....
What you can do with your N42, is change some stuff around with some creative machining. I have found the SR20 Cold Start Valve mounts with only ONE of those big hoses...and in reality you really only 'need' about a 5/16" line to give you a 2200 rpm fast cold idle, so you could in theory take an SR20 Cold start valve, machine a pad underneath the maniflod, and stick it there, with a 5/16" barb to feed air to it from someplace in front of the T/B and that would retain that functionality without the 'topside clutter'. I used the same idle bypass screw you currently have on my P82 to work with my 60mm T/B---but I heated the valve with a propane torch and removed the big 12 or 15mm lines on it, and replaced them with 5/16" fuel hoses, entering where the Cold Start Valve was (tapped all the holes with barbed fittings)---you could have it enter your T/B Spacer---that way you don't have the bother of screwing with your T/B stop-screw to set your idle speed.
Probably the biggest thing you could do is put an aftermarket fuel rail on there, and get rid of the 'spaghetti' setup---and you can relocate the stock FPR to work with it as well---I have seen them mounted to the firewall to control the pressure, instead of being right on the manifold.
Functionality is more of a concern when you take stuff off. Anything is possible if you take the time to think it out and look at what other people have done.
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"Do you feel there are any positive anti-reversion effects in that scenario?"
That is the excuse we are using to justify the loss of the 30cfm! LOL
Nathan at BCG said the same thing---it will definately help with reversion during overlap. Jeff's earlier cam positively had some reversion, and didn't have nearly as big a step, but the Cannon Manifold only has maybe a .5mm step, and flows quite a bit more...well at least 30 cfm more. Maybe that step is closer to 2mm radially. I think those runners were close to the FIA Homogolation blueprint. You can't make em much bigger than that without compromising the wall thickness.
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I used a California Spec wiring harness and ECU Box on a Federal Intake (No EGR, ETC) without any issues when I put a Farilady Z 'back to stock' (it had Triple Weber 40 DCOE's on it, with headers!). The harnesses and ECU's are pretty generic in their application in the early cars. The fuel mapping may be slightly different, but I don't see much real-world difference in the way it performs.
Until I found the 76 Assembly, I was running it with an 83 N/A Box, Harness, and Intake.
That was all because someone converted to L28 from L20A, and noooobody had an L20A AFM.... Had a box and harness, just no AFM.
Now I got an AFM! But the L20A doesn't look like it weathered storage too well.
Just a testament to proper tuning of 'bolt on stuff' also: The engine dynoed at 80RWHP with the Webers and Header. Sounded and FELT fast as a scalded ape. Made all the right noises.
Put all the Stock stuff back on there, as well as the stock N42 (?) exhaust manifold linked to an MSA Downpipe to the exhaust that was on the car (2.5" Crushbent) and the thing was quiet and boring, and spun the dyno to a darned 147 RWHP! Could have sworn it was faster and more powerful with the Webers on it. Ran 'great' as far as I could tell.
So appearances can be deceiving. What this has to do with anything is anyone's guess. "We're meandering"...
Now that I am rereading the original post, I'm wondering what 'other crap' is up there on an N42? Mine is pretty sparse as it is, throttle linkage, cold start valve, Vacuum for the Brakes....A/C Pulloff... Short of making it a cable-throttle conversion, what else is there to take off? Unless, of course it's a later model EGR N42 Intake. Then there are vacuum amplifiers and whatnot. Which one is it?
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Would I be correct in thinking that the hot water from the thermo housing is going into the turbo, getting hotter, and then back into the engine for another trip without seeing the radiator. Hmm seems bad, but I think this is how the factory did it, I wonder if feeding off the back of the block and returning to the radiator is better for cooling, but probably not as good for flow. This has got me thinking even more...
Thanks for all the input Jeff
That is correct, it's 'double hot'. I think the block location would work as far as the cooler water goes...I think water pressure in the block will be nearly equal, if not a bit higher than at the top of the head near the last outlet restriction.
All you need is differential to flow water. Line sizing and turbo jacket design will determine how much actually flows. I think the factory line was only 10mm on the Z31's. The recirculation should not affect temps during hard runs that much. The flow is not that great with those size lines. If you do not use the factory bypass line that normally heats the T/B and Cold Start AAR Valve...then the turbo coolant line is your bypass line for cold starting anyway!
BTW, if you've noticed, the water inlet side of the block has an internal bypass water passage up near the front of the block that goes from the head to the block and to the water pump inlet casting in the front of the block. That gives you half the pump flow capability during closed-thermostat operation. To take the coolant line off the thermostat housing (like the factory does when it's heating the T/B and AAR) would give the second part of the bypass circuitry for cold running. It will also perform the function of releasing any steam bubbles that may accumulate on the 'high side' of the head during this time (though the 2mm orifice in the thermostat plate should do that as well).
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I agree, it's a political hot potatoe.
Probably best the question at hand be asked via e-mail or PM.
(Hint, Hint)
Nice graphic!
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Leaner Mixes burn faster than rich mixes. It's why explosives are the way they are. If you have a homogenous mixture (high-swirl helps with this) then you can run leaner with less advance and have identical cylinder pressures. Problem is we usually get two flame fronts going, one from one AFR, and another with a much leaner AFR---probably something closer to the lower explosion limit for the fuel being used, and when they collide "Ping"...
If you take advance out on a lean engine, the burn starts later but is faster, and hopefully the peak pressure is not reached before the crankthrow has swung to the 'power production side' of the rotation. If you're too lean, and run the advance to high when this occurs your peak pressure still occurs on the engine's compression stroke...this is usually evidenced by a noticable buck of the engine---one cylinder burns faster and tries for a second to run the engine backwards. Same reaction as too much advance when starting---engine is turning slower than the flame front takes to reach peak pressure and if peak pressure occurs before TDC Swingover of the throw, it tries to run in reverse.
Richen it up to a point, and it slows the burn, allowing more advance and smoooooother rise to peak pressure.
Run methanol and you can watch the flame front move it's so slow...and you can throw in even more advance because it's peak pressure comes on nice and smooth.
So with a lean surge, you take timing out and hope your faster burn will reach peak pressure at the right time. For the cylinders not having the fast burn, you start seeing higher EGTs because the fuel in them is still burning at a regular rate.
This is why the High Swirl is important, you need that homogenity not only for consistent burn in the cylinder to prevent ping, you need it homogenous cylinder to cylinder to prevent variation and smooth running overall.
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This is hard to stop from turning decidedly political, but I'll try as best I can to stay off the soap-box:
Almost every state has laws and regulations regarding removal of emissions equipment. As does the federal government. They are pretty draconian if you get out, dig, and read them. One thing that happens is that eventually someplace tests out of compliance with Federal Air Quality standards, and that is when these laws start actually getting enforced, or new laws adopted over them.
In the case of California, many of the "Illegal Modification" portions of the law are now being used to enforce emissions violations. How this affects us as hobby car nuts is and will become increasingly severe. Here in CA it is, according to the CVC illegal to have an incomplete vehicle in your posession. Any and all engine changes have to be reported to the DMV.
What that means is, sure, they have never enforced it. But now when they bust a street racer, they check the Engine SN against the VIN. If it doesn't match: ILLEGAL. IMPOUND. If it's a stolen engine: CRUSHER! For all the V-8 Guys here, those engine changes need to be reported to the DMV, or you are driving a vehicle with an illegally modified engine swap.
It's like Randy Weaver's situation in Ruby Ridge: For the lack of a $5 permit to saw the barrell off the shotgun, his kid gets sniped from the top of the ridge... not that the act of shortening the barrel was necessarily illegal, but not getting the permit filed was! The act was made illegal because of lack of supporting documentation.
There are laws out there, and if you keep your eyes closed to them, they can, and will, like a snake in the grass come up and BITE you.
Here in CA, they are now starting to use laws on the books for 20 and 30+ years as excuses to retire older vehicles from roadways under the rationale that old cars are polluting cars. There are "Web Surfers" in Sacramento now (CA State Capitol) whos' job it is to monitor internet sites. They have called in Magazine Featured Vehicles (as well as all the vehicles owned by the person featured) for 'out of cycle random emissions testing' three years running after their cars were in an enthusiast magazine. Not just the featured vehicle, mind you....ALL the vehicles in the household! Coincidence? I think not!
Asking how to break black-letter federal law on a public internet forum not only draws attention to yourself, it will flag the forum for these net nannies as a place to watch. Give enough information online, and don't be suprised who comes knocking on your door!
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Yep, Nissan OEM 82-83 Turbo Gasket. Last one I bought cost me $50 or something like that, I heard locally they were now in the $80 range.
Still cheaper than having a custom Graphite one made for $300. Especially when the Nissan one is so good.
I suspected when you said 'NISMO' that it was a composite gasket, and not a graphite-based one. The NISMO gaskets are more for headers and ported heads where you have to trim the ports to match. It is an absolute BEAR to trim the Grafoil units due to the metal reinforcement in the center of the layers. I've found if it needs to be done using small tin snips to rough out the holes and a grinding stone on a die grinder for cleanup is the best method.
Homemade cat-back exhaust
in Exhaust
Posted
What size pipe is that-2.5 or 3"?
How long did it take to fab it up...really?
Kind of curious haveing spent some time under there on other people's cars. The clearance over the rear subframe makes me think it's 2.5"---am I right?