Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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L20B Rods would work well, that is what we are running in our L20A Powered Bonneville Car. That car's Peak Power occurs at 8750rpm, and our shiftpoints are between 9300, and 9500rpms.
Matter of fact, we are taking that to the Dyno this afternoon to recal the ECU for the new headers and full exhaust we put on the car in the off season, and then it's off to the races next weekend up at El Mirage.
Maybe I should charge the video camera and see if I can capture the sounds....muahahahaha
Anyway, I digress. We were able to get a tolerable ring stack using the L20B rods in the engine, of course we have custom pistons made---I'd say that is the route you're headed anyway. Make sure you verify the deck height on your block so you don't run into a previously decked unit that has your pistons popping up, say, a few thou from a previous deckheight alteration from a warped block.
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Got to +2 for "Red Barchetta", though Black Sunshine always had a place in the heart...it would be sooo easy for Rob Zombie to do a 'Z-Car Remix' (as he is wont to do on occasion with his stuff) and with the words 'turbocharged and Z-Car inserted in two places, nothing else need be changed to have an ultimate rock Z-Song...
Of course, given recent happenings with many of the youths (and harkening back to the years of 1980-81... the timelessness of Mr. Ted Nugent and "Terminus Eldorado" makes for a nice obscure romp through Automotive Indulgence as well! LOL (Somewhere in there "Wango Tango" and the Turbocharged Maserati BiTuro Reference may explain my starting down that rount about that time as well....but different album)
Ergh, I said "album'.....
Excuse me, let me translate for the youngsters: "CD"
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"The white zone is for loading and unloading only"....
Oh, "My Z-Car Mary"...
LOL
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Check Out ECU-882 (AKA: Redline Weber Fuel Management)
In fact, anyone familiar with the Megasquirt should consider stopping by their site to check out the ECU-882. The interface is VERY similar to the MS, but the setup if much more powerful, running a 140mhz processor. If you can do the Megasquirt, the Redline/Pantera system will look very similar.
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Is that car painted black? Midnight blue? Waitaminit, in 48 hours I'll see it anyway. I'll wait till then.
But I know who it is at 10PM Friday night if the phone rings and someone is asking me if I still have my towbar handy... LOL
See you at MSA Bryan! Nice shots. I like the Tie-Rod Idea.
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Why 15 psi of boost, or 20? The JCR setup formerly was a complete setup, now they separated the components simply because NOBODY (but you) seemed to want the components as a package, each person haveing their own preferances as to what EFI setup they wanted to install.
As for idiot-proof instructions and easily installed, easily tuned---what is wrong with the JCR setup for $8K complete? The SC portion is only $3400, and then EFI adds that again to the mix when it's all said and done. If you got $8K, you can have what you want.
I really don't see the point of the question given those realities. A simple pulley change puts the JCR kit right to 17psi---Laverne Burkhardt has been running that setup for 12+ years now that I know of, and probably longer.
When dealing with imported high-performance parts for a vehicle that has been out of production for more than 30 years, there is (out side of the VW Realm) very little spooner-friendly kits. Unfortunately you will have to expend some effort to get what you want, rarely if ever will things just land on your doorstep and be exactly what you want. Life's like that.
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That cam spec is pretty stout, although this goes back to the 'what do the cam numbers really mean' question. I would think the SU's would drop off quite a bit of top end horsepower. Sure they might work but with all the hassle of getting a WBO2 hooked up and screwing with the SU's to tune them, the effort is just as much as getting the SK's running. If you can tuen the SU's, tuning the SK's is nothing different.
Synch at idle, Synch off idle, optimize idle mixture, start chacking progression.
IMO, getting the jetting right (if it's even off by much...) is easier on SK's due to having segregated jets for each section of the operation curve: idle/progression, main run over 3K, air bleeds and emulsion tubes to determine how those mains come on and where they start really adding fuel.
I believe they use standard Weber jets, so getting parts---again IF you need them, shouldn't be that hard.
As for 'rebuilding' them, do they even run now? I see people take stuff apart all the time---and I swear it's because they just wanted to take it apart, or think that taking something apart will miraculously solve something without expending any effort on the front-end towards diagnosis. I don't know how many times people have bought a car, driven it home and because there was a cugh or sputter the FIRST thing they do is take the carbs all apart and perform augury. In the end bad plug wires....but a month down the road we've got a bunch of new parts on the engine and a frustrated owner that spent a lot of money doing not much of anything.
I'd see if they run first, and go from there. Usually the jetting has pretty wide lattitude on what will 'run'---using a WBO2 will get you closer, faster. Doing power pulls some secluded place will probably get you dialed in pretty well, and a couple of pulls on the dyno afterwards should dial them in for the duration.
After that you check idle synch, idle mixture...but really aren't changing anything once they're set. My Mikuinis on the 73 were synched and set sometime in 1991, and well over 75K mile ago. Idle mixture screws have had a lot of 1/4 turn this way, 1/4 turn that way....but nothing's changed since then. Triple carbs, once set up, are just as 'trouble free' as anything else. It's people who have apenchant for taking everything loose and starting over every tune up (or every time they hear a cough) that give them the 'maintenance intensive' reputation.
I'd stick with the bigger carbs, they will give you just as good, if not better mileage than SU's anyway....as well as positively more horsepower on the top end.
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And of course, I'm on vacation...
On the wrong coast.
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My bud had an old 900 with the 16 valve turbo motor from a newer model in it. He used the Canadian-Spec windsheild washer tank in the wing for his methanol anti-detonant tank (something like 2.5 gallon tank, slick as hell, fit right down inside the wing!). That car was scary! Running 21psi+ from a rolling start at like 40mph, the car would light both front tires up and start smoking them while it slowed down, then he would lift throttle to let it hook and launch hard with a quick shift to fourth.
Ended up trading it for a lot of work around the house (like a new driveway, painting of the house, trim work, RV Pad...) from a pair of Somoan Brothers. They came over for a test drive, and he took them up onto the 405. I could hear when he did his usual 'smoke em at 40' routine coming up the ramp. All the one brother could say was: "No, no, no, I don't need to drive it now. Yeah I want it, when can we start?" I guess when he looked over at the guy in the passengers seat his eyes were wide as pieplates and when he asked if he was O.K. all the guy could mutter was 'Uh Huh, Uh Huh, Uh Huh!'
Got to love a company who considers 15psi of boost "not worth mentioning, nor worth putting a boost gauge in the vehicle"
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It seems to me that people with a good TIG or Plasma use them until dead, or have a list of people who want their machine if they upgrade.
Yep, I had to wait till someone retired and only then did I get his machine. A Cybertig modular unit (state of the art, 1975!)
I have seen the EXACT same model that I got (with coolant cart, three bottles of gasses, foot pedal, attachments out the ying-yang, the owners/instruction manual AND original bill of sale!) sell for almost 10X what I paid for it ($350).
It was worth it---with this machine there is NOTHING I can't get done. This was an old welder, but functioned fine and I watched it in operation to the day I came to pick it up! Having to run a 100A 220 line for it was small potatoes...for the price I got it, I'd buy a GENERATOR to run it if I had to!
Same place I bought my Bridgeport as well. Curiously, it was new in 1975 as well... See the pattern here? LOL
Now, if I could only convince him to sell me that 12X48 Atlas Lathe he has (same price, $350...but then he backed out at the last minute and kept it for himself to 'look at in the storage unit') the guy has EVERY attachment for that thing... and I reallllly want that gem. Same situation: old equipment owned by a German who emigrated after the war and believed in maintaining his tools.
Curiously, he also was very particular who he would sell to as well. I had a cohort that worked with me, who he refused to sell anything to because he felt he was not a 'craftsman' as he'd watched him use a hammer a bit too much over the years...if you catch my drift. That was kind of funny. Guess it made me feel special that he'd sell me his two biggest pieces of equipment from his shop as well. "I know you will take care of them!" was the last thing he said after we loaded up.
Watch for shops closing, or being reposessed. Deals are out there, you just have to keep that money in reserve and be able to move NOW to get them.
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That's a Stromberg, but close enough.
Anything that is applicable to the conversion on that site (TR6's) would be applicable to the Z.
But the adaptors they make don't fit our domes...
There are those who have converted SU's and are running them with Megasquirt. They lurk here. Occasionally I am their unwitting mouthpiece...
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I agree, I have done dozens of these and NEVER had to 'weld in material'.
What manifold? I use primarily P82's and N42's--with the occasional turbo manifold (forget the casting number on it). All have been close on the bottom, but nowhere near cutting through.
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I wired three to one driver, and three to the other driver.
My logic: if one driver dies, I can jump the wire over to the other and run it home, or at least run it on three cylinders to a safe parking spot.
In reality, depending on which year Nissan you have, they actually had six drivers. they only supplied POWER to one wire. The grounds were individually run to drivers that pulsed the injectors through gating the ground.
You can run simultaneous and wire three injectors to each driver. They are not mutually exclusive. The Req Fuel constant will determine pulsewidth and deliver accordingly, regardless of mode selected.
it's just that some engines will run better alternating two squirts, and others simultaneous two squirts---it depends on your fuel delivery and pressure fluctuations. Alternating one squirt seemed to keep my idle smooth and fuel pressure constant as opposed to simultaneous two squirts.
Clear as mud now? LOL
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Sorry, Jim died around 20 years ago, but his wife Sandy is still running the business.
Actually, there are people who attended the 95 Atlanta National Convention who will SWEAR they talked with Jim Cook at his booth. They will describe him as a larger man, with a beard, personable, though somewhat embarrased to talk about racing exploits.
Not that I'm disagreeing that he indeed did die some time before the 95 Convention. But sometimes it's just best to smile, shake people's hands, and try not to let your embarrassment show over their expression of 'reincarnation through omission'...
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Yes, they are measuring actual flow through the barrel. The important thing in the synch is not only that all three carburettors are flowing the same (and you can use HVAC stuff, CFM is fine, FPM is fine---so long as they are ALL flowing similarly) but that each barrel in each individual carb is flowing the same! Mikuinis are notorious for sticking and then tweaking their throttle shafts. I have seen VERY serious flow differences between barrels from tweaked / twisted throttle shafts! So that is another check you are doing.
As for 'old school' I synched carbs for years using the back of my fingers and judging the 'flow' across and between my fingers. People with a unisynch would literally stomp their feet in defiance as to how I could do that!
For years motorcycle guys used multiple manometers to set the balance on thier multiple setups, and I recently bought a Gunson's setup that had a similar float setup to a Unisynch, but used a VERY BIG fixed orifice, and a small tube with floating ring in it---so it can measure very fine differences in airflow while not restricting the flow to any one cylinder. You can leave it connected while the engine idles. So that would be very similar to your setup proposed, Sven. Yours would probably be more accurate. I know with the new digital manometers I have been tempted to hook them up to the Gunsons' setup to actually Digitize the readout. But putting a $500 digital precision manometer kind of defeats the purpose of me buying a 12 Pound Sterling Gunson's Plastic Synchroniser Gadget...LOL
I like the Weber meter because it gives a number and does not alter the airflow through the cylinder. If you use a Uni-Synch to get a decent reading you end up choking the cylinder you put it on---so you either take a series of quick 'flash readings' and move on...or you risk the engine slowing down and giving you a false low reading. The Weber unit can sit there all day and not affect how the engine gets it's air. And to do an off-idle check---say at 2000rpms---with a UNi-Synch? FAGGADEBAUDIT! WIth the Weber, you pull a plug and it rescales as more air is bypassed around the sensing element, giving you a reading you can read cylinder to cylinder without killing or altering the speed one whit. Actual measurement of the idle, AND OFF IDLE synch of the carbs!
As for doing a cylinder balance test that is how I still do it. Curiously now I do it by removing injector connections! Singles out a dirty or misfiring injector QUICK!
I have also used the garden hose method. Still use it today for detonation checks while driving... Imagine that sight driving down the road and passing a guy lugging his turbo Z up a hill holding a green garden hose to his ear straining with a look of consternation on his face!!! LOL
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I thought about using a pair of '73/'74 Hitachi flat tops. That would be a fitting end to the spare set in my garage. Oh well, another project on the pile...
Send me an e-mail or your e-mail addy, I have some photos that may spur you to start working on that thing!
The 73 Float Bowls are BIG, and the 74's aren't. So if they are 73 Flat Tops, you can easily set up some Ford TBI injectors from HO 5.0's in there at a 45 degree angle so the spray impinges on the center of the throttle plate. This is NOT ideal I have found... so a steeper angle will have to be employed in the SECOND set of prototypes...
But add a .750" spacer to the float bowl, mill down the heat shield standoffs an equal amount, and cut a hole in the bottom so the injector connecctor can stick through and NOBODY from underneath or on top can tell they are fuel injected.
Then you drill out the stock fuel passage in the carb to .250", and you can run the stock fuel rail with EFI hose directly to the carburettors deadheaded. Stick that asbestos insulation on the rail and the hoses...and who can tell?
Use the stock ZXT regulator on the return line (orifice removed, and then the regulator set inline as a variable return orifice....) and you're set. EFI pump in the back, with a 280Z tank...nobody sees nothing.
TPS? Simple, easily hidden under the dashboard, or use a GM unit with a 'key drive' right on the end of the throttle linkage---doubt anyone will even look that close, and coincidentally it's right under the valve cover breather.
Not that I've given it any thought, WW. No....not at all.
If only I'd REAMED those fuel rails instead of DRILLING them, I'd be using them NOW! I have a fuel leak issue to contend with...I know what I have to do, just no time to do it!
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Yeah compression ratios are multiples of each other. I don't know why the hell I typed 3, that doesn't work out on my example! DOH! The math is right, what I wrote there was wrong. The total compression ratio is 2.25 (1.5*1.5=2.25)
As for books.... there was this one undergraduate text that was 894 pages and was once available from OPMAP Technical Books back in the mid 90's called 'Turbocharging the Internal Combustion Engine' but I forget publisher and author. It wasn't cheap.
Your better bet may be to cozy up to someone with an SAE Membership and get some of the recent technical papers on the subject. Kind of dry reading, but if you can handle the math there are no suprises!
Garrett (Honeywell) Engine Boosting Systems R&D Complex isn't that far from me, and I get to talk to those guys in the course of my work... So next time I'm over there I'll see if they have any suggestions.
Man, their shop has ALL the cool stuff. They can replicate just about any intercooler you ever could want! Oven for brazing the tube sheets, machine to make the fins between the tubes.... I salivate heavily whenever I'm in there!!!
Oh, and the humanities! PALLETS of racing turbos (titanium cases, non-containment style scrolls!) All scrap.... Trash... Oh it hurts sometimes. I have learned not to open boxes on the 'scrap dock' for fear of being traumatized for the rest of the day.
Same rule applies at Hewlett-Packard in Boise ID, as well...
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Oh, I was being facetious...
Damn! I think JeffP had a mainline to get those cheaper. Ah well, if you got it under $200 you did O.K.
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Think of it this way:
You flow 12cfm in one cylinder, and in the one next to it you flow 10cfm.
(Unsynchronised)
So you set your jetting so that with the colortune you get the optimum AFR in each cylinder respectively.
The one with 12cfm is flowing more 'pounds per hour' of air, stands to reason, right? So that means it needs more 'pounds per hour of fuel' to get that correct AFR.
And you know that (roughly) for every half a pound of fuel burned, you get one horsepower (This is a REALLY simplified version so he can follow it, don't crucify me for oversimpliufication!). Meaning that the cylinder flowing the ideal AFR for 12CFM will make MORE horsepower than one flowing only 10CFM.
It's roughly the same as having 6 single-cylinder Briggs-n-Stratton Lawnmower Engines running all onto the same crankshaft: you don't want one at 1/2 throttle, three at wide open, 2 at idle, and the last one 3/4 throttle.
This imbalance in flow will impart torsionals into the crankshaft. A million cycles or so, and things can break! That's extreme, but hopefully you see why you want airflow equalized between all cylinders.
And a piece of advice, get the WEBER synchrometer with a dial and numbers on it---a Uni-Syn will choke out a cylinder if you hold it there too long. The Weber tool is actually an airflow meter, and you can leave it there forever and not affect how the engine is running. You want to synchornise the airflow at idle, and it's hard as hell to check off-idle (say 2000rpms) for proper synch with a UNi-Syn---with the Weber tool, you open another orifice and just read the number, easy peasy!
Hopefully that explanation why you need both CFM and AFR to be matched.
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The open-loop/closed loop situation is borderline. Like I said, the 160 will not be fully open till 170, and that is near close to remove the cold start (or open loop) situation on most cars. ECU variations, or even resistance in the harness can skew this.
On a car with a standalone, you program accordingly.
Thermal performance of the coolant system works on heat rejection. I would have to see the car run cooler on a 195 t-stat and run some instrumentation on it to understand what is going on in the supercharged scenario. That just sounds strange to me.
On the car with the MAF going to open loop a simple resistor would have solved his problem with the ECU switching to open loop. And disconnecting the MAF Water Jacket (I believe) is screwing with the bypass circuit within the block...making for longer warmups due to no internal water recirculation while the thermostat is closed after initial start.
Having an air temperature sensor bad didn't help either...
As well as the reflashed EPROM... and O2 Sensor conflict sending the car to open loop regardless of what temperature it's operating...
There was FAR more problems on that car than a 160 degree thermostat. Like I stated before, the Nissan ECU's look for just over 170 degrees. In worldwide applications a 'tropical' thermostat is 72C...
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A Big block Chevy only pulls 7 CFM per cylinder at Idle! That's not alot of AIR!
An L20A with only 1998CC's for Six Cylinders also doesn't draw a lot of air---even quite abit less than the BBC. Best bet for these kind of setups is a balance tube distributed IAC or Idle Air Bypass Screw. Idle is accomplished at closed throttle (with proper t-plate angle at idle, not 90 Deg but offset so as to preclude sticking in the bored or coming back past center)
On the Bonneville car, we use an ECU-Driven IAC for idle speed control, and the throttle butterflies (45mm diameter) are totally closed.
Synchronisation is done off-idle by linkage length, with a coarse setup to start being a check against the WOT Stop.
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I run into the problem alot when saying core plug and everybody thinks your an idiot.
Correction: Slack-Jawed Shade-Tree Gomers think you're an idiot. People who understand casting, and people who have had prefessional schooling in Automotive Technology will understand exactly what they are when you say 'core plugs'.
"Freeze Plugs" is a misnomer based on someone making the anecdotal observation that sometimes those plugs will pop out of the coolant in happens to freeze. Think about this: that ice expands throughout the whole jacket---I have seen PLENTY of cracked blocks where NOT ONE PLUG WAS DISPLACED!
The plugs are there for the purpose of removing casting sand, providing access to something during machining, or (As the correct name suggests) holding cores in place during casting.
If they are 'freeze plugs' then why are they on the back of a Nissan Intake Manifold?
Reason: They need a hole there to support the CORE of the plenum while casting it!
Core Plugs, Soft Plugs, Welsh Plugs. I can give you a reason catagorically why those are a correct terminology based on engineering facts.
I can show you countless reasons through failures why they are not 'Freeze Plugs'... Urban Legend and Gomer Myth, perpetuated by the uninformed and uneducated---if it seems like everybody is looking at you like an idiot, take the time to educate them---ignorance is a terrible thing to leave unrectified.
If they argue, consider the thought you may not be getting great service buying stuff there...
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nah, unless you are using honkin' injectors and notice big pulsations in fuel line pressure, it's not a big deal.
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RC 1000CC Bosch Standard 14mm O-Ring Injectors.
SU's as Throttle bodies?
in Fuel Delivery
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The CFM is a misleading number as far a capabilities go...
The CFM of a stock 50mm T/B was posted somewhere a while ago---say something like 390 or 420 cfm. Will the runners in the stock EFI setup support that at 6500rpm+?
The CFM potential of dual SU's bored straight through at 45mm is almost 2X what the stock T/B is, and with larger runners....
You also run into tip-in response issues, blah blah blah.
Just keep in mind that a Cosworth Vega (2300cc's) worked fine from the factory with twin 50mm Throttle Bodies on a plenum-styled manifold, and when hotrodded that same manifold was used well over 10K rpm (hey, Cosworth know how to design a head, and the Iron Duke below it didn't know what hit it!)
I'm running about for MSA now in headless chicken mode, so don't have time to search the forums for the exact numbers, but I know it was out there.
The comparison was that triple Mikuinis with 34mm or 36mm chokes had a CFM potential of 1400 or 1500 CFM and it was in response to someone insisting a 390 Holley was 'far big enough for anything on a Z-Car'--yet 1500 CFM potential makes more HP, and is still driveable.
With EFI, the way CFM is measured (at what depression) is different, and the velocity through the hole is not as critical as a carb due to atomization concerns. Total velocity in the runners is critical, but at some point with EFI, you end up with a Tip-In monster and either need a non-linear linkage or other way of controlling off-idle or off-seated throttle excursions.