Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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Nope, you use the later model style T/B WITHOUT an idle screw (at least I did on mine, I guess you COULD use one...) The Euro Cars have the external idle bypass screw, and their T/B's don't have that BCDD on the bottom of them. For the record, I am using the T/B from a 91 SR20DE.... It's 60mm. But yeah, by using the separate idle bypass screw, you are performing the same function as the AAC and the resultant mass of Magnet Valves, Vacuum hoses, etc.... It works just fine, you get about a 100rpm drop below idle speed on snap drop-throttle, but it raises right back up to idle speed immediately, just like the N/A does.
The hose barb is used when you use the EXTERNAL bypass screw. What I did on mine was put a 1/4" barb on the J-Pipe, then it was run to the idle bypass valve from an 83 N/A car that was bolted to the side of the manifold (not integral in the T/B like on some earlier N/A's). I had taken the Idle Bypass Screw fittings out of it by heating it with a propane torch (the OEM hoses are something like 10mm I.D., which is far larger than you need) and then tapped the housing for 1/4" NPT and screwed in barbed fittings into it from the old OEM 50mm T/B (the water fittings). I ran the line from the Bypass Screw Housing to the former Cold Start Valve location where I had tapped and installed another 1/4" barb---but you could put that fitting anywhere in the plenum.
So if you use a T/B with an integral Idle Bypass Screw, you don't need the J-Pipe Barb, External Bypass Screw, and hose routing.
I actually do have photos at my Cardomain Page...at least I did. I will have to go look and report back...
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Maybe that's what it was, read in miles and odo in miles, but speeds posted in KM/H!
LOL
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Its exactly this pissing competition that I hope the aero-results from bjhines & crew put a stop to.
Dave
First, I don't know what "P-Contest" you are referring to, but if it's about 'stock top speed', with all due respect, that is a pipe dream. I don't know how many times I just smile when people tell me they have taken their open-mawed S30 to speeds as fast as our land speed car with an engine either stock, or "slightly modified" but "lowered with stiffer springs" as chassis mods.
People have an innaccurate speedometer in front of them, and it said 145, so that is how fast they were going.
I regularly go 110mph down the 91 Freeway Westbound between VanBuren and McKinley in morning rushour traffic when it's flowing....
I know better, and I know the speedo is off, but they see it "so it must be true" and for someone without a logical cell in their body, untrained in dispassionate scientific method, you will not convince them using logic.
I have a good friend I have known for over 20 years. He is aware of my land speed efforts, yet STILL to this day actually thinks his 260Z 2+2 and DGV Weber Conversion did a sustained 145mph on I15 out to Vegas in a caravan of sportscars. It is simply ignorance, and if you think, if you actually think giving logical, empirical evidence on a plate with mashed potatoes and gravy to them will change their minds let me give you an engraved invitation to the most frustrating phrase on the face of the planet:
"I know it doesn't make any sense, but that's what it did!"
Welcome to my world...
You will NOT stop the stupid, nor the ignorant from making these type of claims, nor sticking to their guns. All sticking to their guns in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary does is move them form the realm of the ignorant, to the realm of the stupid. Ignorance is the state of not knowing, Stupidity is the state of knowing, and refusing to acknowledge it. All any of this testing will do will give you the confidence to smile at their claims. That's it.
Take a look at the Nissan graphs posted earlier, and notice the Exponential climb the horsepower absorption curve takes above 140mph. I have seen plenty of S30's with big blocks, small blocks, turbos, superchargers, Hillborn Injection, (you name it) hit that wall above 150mph. I look forward to their testing to see what kind of horsepower will be needed to push that brick to a speed of...say 170mph, on an unmodified and even front chinspoilered S30 body. I haven't seen many S30's with the original front end configuration go faster than 150mph. Turbo Six of V8 included...
On another aside, BJ, would you be interested in some videos of various S30's at speed on the dry lake? I bought a video from the May Meet, and it has three of our runs (140+) on it, as well as a V-8 powered S30 with a chop-top and modern spoiler on the back, as well as a modified nose on it (160mph) running. You get a nice detail of the "Dust" off the back of the car. The difference between our G-Nose car without a rear spoiler, and the other car is interesting. PM me with some mailing information and I'll see what I can do about getting a DVD rip of the runs out to you.
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I talked to jeff last night and touched on this, "Common Emitter Transistor" was the device. he says (greek to me) connecting one to the input, and the other to the common emitter output, with another to power and it should invert the voltage.
I probably have that all wrong, but it makes sense from what I was thinking.
You have power to one lead, a common output, and your signal to the third lead. The function of the device is to invert the signal, so +1 in could be configured with a "power supply in" (simple voltage regulating chip from +12VDC) of 5VDC, you would get that full 5VDC out the common emitter. By the time you get to 5VDC in on the signal end, you are down to 1VDC out the common output.
This has been 20+ years since going through that class, but this should not be hard to configure at all. Two chips and some wire, and you could literally shrink-wrap the whole schebang with the wires coming out and be done with it.
And not to be abrasive here, but the TEC3 is NOT the TEC2. They are WORLDS apart, developmentally. The TEC2 we used in the Bonneville car used a $300 UGEO sensor, and if we used anything else but the one supplied by Electramotive or their "value added dealer", it ran like crap, if at all. I totally understand why these guys want a work-around for the current generation of sensors.
But the TEC3 is not a TEC2. Just like the TEC1 is in a world of it's own...
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I have to agree, I was import guy in America, and then did apprenticeship time in Japan, so I'm 'all metric'... I'm constantly converting back and forth between metric and imperial measurements and back in conversationsto people...they think I stutter! LOL
I loved my time in Liverpool earlier this year. The Engineers were driving around Escort Vans with MPH speedos, KM Odos, and the street signs in miles, but exit countdowns in meters. Oh, the hell the 'old timers' must have!
At least you got rid of the shilling in the last 20 years! LOL
I wish America would simply "go metric" and get with the rest of the world. I hate fractions. Decimals are so much easier.
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I was informed that was a Janspeed car that ran frequently at Zandvoort. Maybe I should have my source look for those LY heads! LOL
My wife was not pleased to hear my celphone ringing at this hour (on the night table next to the bed)...
Why do I give my phone numbers to friends in Europe? LOL
Looks like I may indeed be visiting in October. While I was stil lup, I just had to come back and listen to that video again. I love the gear upchanges...
I may have to get a dog box for Bonneville. not that I need one, but just for the "cool factor"! LOL
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On the ducting note Sven mentioned, in small experimental aircraft going speeds above 140knots, it's not uncommon to cool the engines by using two Chevy Impala Air Conditioning Cores! Their thicker core is inefficient at slow speeds, but when you have air pressure from 140 knots coming at you, and then realize you only need an opening of 2X3" to supply more than enough air you place them far back in the structure, and make a nice, long tapered duct. Imagine taking your 1X2 foot radiator opening, and run a 7 degree tapered line from all sides forward. Eventually they will meet, but the faster you go, the smaller you can make that opening and still get FULL COOLING from the core. Looking at the cutaways from the front end air-management ducting of the #83 Electromotive Car you can see they used thick cores with small frontal areas, and then tapered ducts for the smallest opening facing forward. Liberal use of NACA ducting as well...
Oh, to be able to do these things legally at Bonneville! LOL
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Tony D... You have some experience with body modifications for all out speed... What have your experiences told you about the various available parts for the S-30 cars...???
The small or large spoiler for the rear hatch cuts top speed.
The small spoiler everyone likes cut 3 mph off our Bonneville car at El Mirage on the 1.3 mile course. We ran back to back runs, only difference being we took off the spoiler. Went 143mph, and on the previous run had only made 140. Back end was a little "light" without the downforce. I think there are better, more modern spoilers that can have better effect than the "Old School" BRE spoiler, which was designed to be used at speeds basically limited to below the 140 range...
After removing the spoiler and having traction problems, adding 300# of concrete or lead shot in the spare tire well did the traction trick nicely. Adding that weight really helpde our acceleration (now how's that for a contraversial statement? LOL)
The Xenon Urethane front spoiler will fold under at speed (around 125/130+mph) if left black, unpainted, in direct summer sunlight at 110F... When you run over your own spoiler and pick up speed, you begin to realize some of this stuff shouldn't be on a car...
Doing a "shed the spoiler" routine on a rookie certification pass can be very embarrassing, both to you and the tech inspectors who let the thing on the track in the first place...LOL (Big hint for lovers of urethane front air dams: REINFORCE THE OUTER EDGE WITH A 1/4" ROD SKELETON!)
Most of the stuff everybody wants to tack on to the car puts us out of the Production Class, so we haven't been able to play with much more. I have seen a lot of the front air dams on V-8 powered cars there. One guy glassed in the whole front of his car with a spoiler that made the front end look like a freakin' snowplow! He couldn't break 155, even with a 380 Chevy with dual quads on a tunnel ram...
Our G-Nose and Bellypan does nicely, though I am looking forward to the chance to run the S130 chassis in years to come. Like the chart shows, that body starts where terminal "production" development of the S30 stops. We are hoping the S130 2+2 will let us bump the production speed record at Bonneville to at least 175, just above where our F/ALT record currently is (173.325), and in ALT trim with the S130 radiator blocked and full pan to break 180.
And of course any development done on the N/A car will be used on the Turbo when we go F/PS. Lots of irons in the fire, just have to nail down some particulars and get the vehicles properly classified, and then go racing.
After we kick that pesky Honda record out of the 2 Liter G/PRO Class!
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The neat thing I didn't realize is how much more developed the Euro Turbo Cars were in underhood airflow management. The S130 Turbos in Europe got no A/C, and had a plastic duct from the front end that had a special spoiler,right to the bulkhead opening. No way for any stray air to hit the bulkhead, it ALL had to go THROUGH the radiator.
But yeah, that's EXACTLY the page I was talking about! i must have the yarn testing in another book. I recall it shows "rollovers" and some water testing, mostly in B&W, if it's not in that book, then I'm going to have a heluva time finding THOSE since I was sure it was in there and hadn't catalogged it in my mind otherwise (oops!)
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I can vouch the differentiation of the 432 Grilles. In the states the Fairlady grille was improperly referred to as the "432" grille by some Nissan Motorsports Employees, and when that particular model was exhausted, they stated the mesh grilles were "NLA".
Then someone with a 72 Fairlady Z parts booklet suggested they look at any of the other part numbers for "Fairlady Grilles" to check availability.
And "Viola" they "became available again". They had been selling one part number, and it's supply was exhausted. They were totally unaware that there were several different "Fairlady Grilles" available. Not just Early S30, but later S31 Grilles. This same type of situation occurred with radio block-off plates during the restoration programme where Nissan Employees ran out of one part number, and decided they were "NLA" while the radio block-off plate from the 720 pickup was the exact same part in a different box! Of course pointing this fact out to them, no matter how tactfully was not a welcome development.
Like Alan said, they had different meshes, different gauge of sheetmetal rimming the mesh section, etc etc... They are almost universal fitment on the JDM S30's, and to early US Specification S30's.
As they said about 260's-on in the USA "Some modifications may be required to fit to these models"... My latest acquired Fairlady (1975 Fairlady Z(S) 2/2) had a PO that decided it was a good idea to cut the grille up to fit fog lamps.
Apparently unaware what those factory punched holes in the bottom of the front bumper were meant to hold...
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If you look in the wheel well you'll see where the inner sheetmetal is horizontal. I cut the outer so that the inner comes out horizontally and meets the out fender.
I will vouch personally that this is the way they are installed in Japan, and in the instructions that came in the old "Yellow Book" for competition prep in Japan---maybe Alan can add something about that. The parting line at the top of the wheel well between the wheelwell's inner and outer arches is where they come straight out to the body line, and the arches basically make what formerly was both the outer wheel well arch and the quarter panel extension---making in effect a "tubbed" wheelwell with the FRP extension being nothing more than a vestigial lip to cover the outermost portions of the tire combination. The tire/wheel combo of a 14X10" Watanabe (forget tyre size) running a Dunlop racing slick will take full suspension compression without rubbing on anything, and they will tuck inside the ZG Flare in such a state.
I think I may have some Xeroxed Pages from the old "Yellow Book" that shows installation details (er... hand drawn in Japanese...) I could dig them up from storage if needed to put it all to rest.
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"To compare that with cart-sprung, ladder-chassised products from Europe - produced in countries effectively still recovering from wartime devastation even into the 1960s - is fairly pointless I think."
I might add that Japan was still stinging from the occupation at that same time. They didn't exactly come through the war unscathed... Had the island-jumping campaign taken the next step from Okinawa to the southern islands Japan would have looked like Eastern Germany did in the 1960's...and that would be generous given what happened during the Okinawa Campaign.
In either case, it wasn't the design so much as someone's latching on to tradition and "the way things are done" that did in their efforts. The British Automotive Establishment could have modernised just as the Japanese did after the war. They chose not to, and paid a dear price as the Japanese put product out that redefined sectors insted of simply trying to perpetuate them.
With the recent goings on in the Automotive world, the companies truly left unscathed by the War are now in their death throes.
Chrysler is part of a German Company. GM is about to be overtaken by Toyota as "#1", and Ford just put it's finance company in hock as collateral for loand to keep operations going...
Sad thing is the "big three" watched, and didn't learn a damn thing. They refused to modernise for years, and though Institutional Inertia and sheer Glacial Size took this long to come to loggerheads with their inevitable fate...
/Rant Mode Off/
I lament the loss of a 'car with a soul'...
I digress. Great thread!
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This was a very complete engine swap kit provide by Nordskog. I believe this was introduced prior to the JTR manual and around the time Scarab Engineering introduced their line of V8 Datsun Zcar. You'll note the "350Z" name - referencing the Chevy 350 cid engine. Interesting that years later - like now!! The new Zcar is called 350Z!!
I have a NordskogZ in the back yard! When I picked it up, I got the original invoice, and conversion manual. neat stuff, same brochure and promotionals you show here. Mine even has a California BAR certification label in the doorjamb showing the legality of the engine swap!
Man, how did I miss this thread for so long!?!?!? LOL
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I wish I had photos of my car from the PO. In 1981 he had Porsche 930 flares added to a 73 240Z, and used the headlight mechanisims from a Corvette to make Pop-Up headlights in the hood, and glassed over the stock headlight (lens covers). He was running 14X13's in the back, and 14X10's in the front. Neat JDM wheels, gold centered. Running something like 295/575R-14 Dunlop Slicks on the back, and 265's up front. When I got the car he hood and glass covers were gone. And the largest wheels I could find were 14X12 Watanabes. They sit in storage waiting to find some unobtainable 14" slicks....
I, too, lament trashing my set of Hayashi Racing Wheels. Had a set...3 of 4 and it was moving time... So to the scrap yard they went. Saw them recently being sold in pairs on Japanese Websites for disgusting prices.
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All I got to say is "note the placement of the expansion bellows..."
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Oh, Jeff's AFR with his 720CC/Min injectos is variable with the ECU from 20:1 to richer than 10:1. When he was starting the runs and doing low load maps, the he had the idle at 14.7:1, and the L-Engine doesn't like that at all I had him drop the mix to 13/13.5:1, and the idle smoothed right out.
So with the Z31 ECU and 720CC injectors the resolution is not a problem at idle. Just keep in mind that Nissan had "idle enrichment" that went away once the L-Engines came off-idle. At idle speed they always liked to run rich, and at 14.7:1 will be very erratic comparatively to one at 13.5:1
Like you mention the MS forum (and the MSEFI Forum) has a lot of duscussion about pulsewidths. Usually idle pulsewidth control becomes a problem on stuff larger than 1000 cc/min. Injector opening time and all that rot starts to close in with those big honkers. They just get dribbly and sloppy...
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I had no luck with support to go from the expensive $300 WBO2 sensor on the TEC2, I can empathize completely with people wanting to convert to a $30 WBO2 sensor and run it on their TEC. I would say to send an e-mail to JeffP, he's made up all sorts of DC-DC power converters for driving things in his car, I'm sure a voltage inverter shouldn't be all that hard for him. I'm forgetting the component that does it, but there is one I seem to recall that simply biases input voltages in reverse. For a +1V input it gives a -1 V output. Using that differential you start the conversion. It's been along time since looking at those circuits. It's stuff i want to forget, mechanical is more my bag! LOL
I'll watch this for the possibility of salvaging the TEC we yoinked out of our Bonneville car (and changed to the ECU882 Unit) for use in something else.
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Yes, Steve Christensen formerly of nissan Motorsport informed me that the 300ZX coil is the hottest thing they made, and that it had voltage potential far in excess of most "expensive aftermarket pieces of junk"!
Mine INDEED shot blue-white sparks close to four inches when driven by an Aftermarket Perlux "Flamethrower" GM HEI module. Tell the BEST part about it, though: the spark was jumping to the PCV HOSE! Who knew it was "conductive"? Every spark that landed sent up a little poof of white smoke from the hose! Cooooooooooooooooool! LOL
The two connections are basically the blue wire and the brown wire. One is ground, the other is power and trigger. I forget which is which, but I can go out and look at my car in the morning and revisit this tomorrow. Basically the two screw terminals on the barrel coil just get transferred to the two spade terminals on the 300 Coil. No Great Shakes. Mine had all that crap on it when I got it, but I cut it all off and only used the connector that went to the coil itself. Offhand I want to say the "T" configuration of the connectors the "top bar" connector was "power" or "Positive on the Barrel Coil, and the "Upright" was "ground" or "Negative" on the Barrel Coil Connectors.
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Absolutely, relocate the PCV valve under the manifold slightly forward. The N/A manifolds PCV's hit the turbo when installed, so you gotta move it. I used an 79 or 80 Non-EGR P82 (I think) manifold on my turbo. The Euro Turbos have NONE of the stuff we ECCS guys have. Just make a 1/4" or 3/8" barb on your J-Pipe, and connect it to the N/A idle speed control screw housing, and plumb it up to the Cold-Start Air Regulator like on an N/A and it will run just fine. No need for the Magnet Valve controlled AAR valve to control idle speed. Jsut set it like an N/A and it runs just fine. The Euro Turbos had this EXACT setup, only using a Turbo manifold with stock Nissan Blockoff Plates for the AAR, and the EGR as well. All those acronyms can be tossed...
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hey hey hey hey!
CORVAIRS were the ones with oil and exhaust smoke in the cab from the heaters. VW's had nice separate heat exchangers that could only get oil on them from poor valvecover gaskets that leak leak leak because the lazy mechanics never changed them at the 3000 mile interval like VW said....
Having two early 60's Microbusses, and two Corvairs (60 and 66), the first thing I thought was "This guy is an old Air-Cooled Fanatic and craves that "nice manifold heat" you get from the VAir and 'Dub!" LOL
Really though, you shouldn't have oil dripping on your headers. If you do, then heating your interior is not an issue. Fire in the engine compartment is more of a concern!
Making a blower and ducting wouldn't be hard, but why?
Running a small water-based heater core from something like a Geo Metro will be easily managed and put out FAR more reliable heat (once the engine is warmed up) that you will efficiently recover off the headers.
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That is a very neat little piece, but earlier in the 80's the same company made one that bolted directly to the turbo (before they were using O-2 Feedback on the Computers) and did away with the cumbersome cast downpipe. I believe it was a 65mm downpipe (slightly larger than 2.5") that split to twin 50mm pipes and the exact same "universal" exhaust flange.
I ran that thing for close to 15 years before finally going with a different single-tube exhaust.
Greddy / Trust makes such nice stuff for the JDM... they don't even let us know it exists here!
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Check out JeffP's recent experiences. He is using a GM style (lucas?) injector, I don't think it's pintile style, and he seems to be having some issues with pulsewidth resolution. Get with him on what current status is, he did dyno runs this past monday, and this is where it manifested itself...
He's in "troubleshooting mode" right now!
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When we had several records under our belt at El Mirage, the choice was to go to 55 Webers for the power jump we needed (from 45mm DCOE's). For the price of the 55 Weber Setup (the things run 45mm booster venturis), we ended up buying ITB's, and going with EFI that served us really well.
Unless the class dictates carburetion, ITB's are the way to go in high flow applications IMO.
At the time, 55mm Webers and the Attendant Manifold were Price-Comparable with the TWM TB's and their manifold (with the TWM setup being cheaper, actually...)
45mm ITBs are streetable. 50+mm PHH's or DCOE's are not...
But if your class restricts you to Carburetion, then they are "dashizz"...
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I have to say the MS conversion is probably the best way to go. You can get all the wiring in place, as well as all the sensors, totally independent from the stock system. With the dual element TPS from the KA with an Automatic, you have both a switch for the ECCS to run, and another TPS showing position all within one body, so you can run the ECCS, with the MS running in parallell as a datalogger. You can then datalog your runs, get all the stuff working, have your "custom" harness run, and in an afternoon, swap over the final items like Fuel pump and EFI relay initiation wires, and connect the injectors to the MS from your pre-laid harness, and then go about tuning it.
You then have something you can run in EITHER mode just by switching a few wires back and forth, the only real hard part is finding one of the dual element TPS units.
This gets you familiar with the Megasquirt tuning, lets you get hours on the unit and confidence in that it works. Then when it comes time to go turbo, you simply remap and in a couple of hours you are running under boost. This was the way a lot of people started out when they had no baseline maps available. With the Moby Maps you should be fine as a starting point. You can actually get the MS running and do a total engine swap --- it would be no different swapping over the sensors and wiring as it is for the stock system.
it is ALWAYS easier and makes MUCH more sense to start any kind of conversion with KNOWN GOOD SYSTEMS IN PLACE. This allows you to get the critica fuel and spark control running and KNOWN GOOD before changing the turbo/head/engine. Then if anynthing goes worng, you KNOW it ran before, so you only have to look over what you CHANGED, instead of EVERY possibility under the sun.
If you are a masochist, you buy this in a box, that in a box, the other thing in a box...then you assemble it from this box and that box, and then try to make it run.
I do that a lot. I am a masochist, I do not recomend this for college students who need their rides to make it to abnormal psych class so they understand me better! LOL
S30 Aerodynamics not really that bad?
in Miscellaneous Tech
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"yeah right. We would just look at each other and smile."
I'm just trying to prep those involved in the testing for their ONLY real satisfaction when it's all said and done. Like you mom'sZ said, when you know the score (and BJ's testing will certianly give people a place to point to as empirical evidence...) just simling polietly and nodding your head in agreement is about all you will end up doing when all is said and done.
Like I said some time ago, if there are all these "basically stock" 140+mph S30's, I wonder why nobody ever made it out to Bonneville in the intervening years from 1975 till 1999 to break that standing record....
/Leans back and Smiles/