Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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The restriction of oil flow to the bearing is seal related, true, but there are very complex forces working inside highspeed turbomachinery that manny people are unaware of... too much oil can cause a measured decrease in spool up time, excessive frothing in the pan (causing intermittent cavitation of the MAIN pump in some cases!), seal leakage, oil consumption, high oil temperatures blah blah blah...
By restricting flow, you get better heat transfer from the oil that IS going in there, and returning far less volume of frothing oil to the sump. Those are the two biggest issues after seals leaking.
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Dude, there is NO FIdle relay on a Z-Car!
What I did was hook the Fuel Pump relay to power a Three Wire O2 sensor, and the Aux Air Regulator for fast idle operation just like the stock Dastun did (F. Idle. Fast Idle---get it?) This way, the items are only powered when the car is running, like it should be. I even alter stock cars to run like that.
The F.Idle relay output is later used from the MS as the spark output on MSnS---on the diagram you posted, the yellow lead coming from the DB37 should go to the HEI module terminal "G" (marked "FIDLE" on the second schematic in the relay board, which is a direct pass-through).
The tach lead pickup would be determined by what version board you show---you are showing a V3 MS unit, but the schematic is for a V2 MS unit---and I am not sure the tach pickup circuit is the same on both boards.
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he he he, for instance, I can link you to a photo if a Toyota Truck that runs a 4-71 Detroit, turbocharged, mid engined, and goes over 150mph. He did no modifications to that Detroit, still 17:1 compression, but LOTS of boost, LOTS of cold icewater in his air-to-water intercooler, and HIGH gears.
He does 0-152 in about 1.3 miles....on dirt. That's respectable! If he didn't stretch the frame 14 feet for stability on a minitruck, he could easily house his mill under a standard cap, and really screw with people's minds! LOL
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If you keep the stock Nissan Oil line' date=' no restrictor required, if you upgrade to a braided steel line like I did, then a restrictor is required. I did as Tony mentioned...welded in the hole and then drilled it for the restrictor.
Regards - Yasin[/quote']
Who wants to keep the stock Nissan Line, though? LOL
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A late note I have is that from the originally proposed sketches, Idea 1 is the closest to the Nissan Factory Underbelly Pan that was used on the Z432R's.
The underbelly pan was used in conjunction with the G-Noses' lower apron (which went back to the lower radiator support, where the underbelly pan started) and went back to the rear of the transmission. It was complete with drainage / servicing holes for fluids. It was made of FRP, and is shown in the Fairlady Z parts catalog from 1972 if anyone is interested in what it looked like.
That underbelly pan was what Nissan used when wind tunnel testing the G-Nose during development of the S130 body. With a slight Rake, The G-Nose and headlight covers, and that bellypan the Cd of the S30 was reduced from .465 to .38X...
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Have to agree, the block threads are NOT NPT, they are BSP (1/8-27 BSP I believe)
For the restrictor, you can also use braze in the base fitting, and simply drill it out.
For the inverted flare portion, as Yasin did, drilling and then adapting to something you CAN use is the easiest option. Welding is nice, but a threaded solution would also be possible.
I forgot where I saw it, but there was a BSP "T" Fitting available, that would allow you to do essentially the same thing Yasin did, and still screw the stock sender in the end of it---I think it was for sale at Pegasus Racing in New Berlin WI... Was a Male-Female-Female "T" configuration in BSP. They deal a lot with English Ford stuff there, so they have some strange BSP fittings available.
The feed to the turbo would simply be a BSP to AN-4 (with restrictor added) which should be available almost annywhere---a Parker Store would be a good place to look.
A Brass or Aluminum BSP to AN fitting makes it really easy to tap the bottom of the fitting, and screw in an older Rochester Carburettor Jet to use as a restrictor, and makes it easy to change later if you want more/less oil. The Rochester jets were a standard machine screw thread---1/4-20 I believe, and their sizing in simple: a 50 jet is .050"!
Good Luck!
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I'd skip reading magazines like SCC if I were you. The compression you are talking about does NOT utilize an intercooler, and they are injecting up to five gallons a minte on several stages of turbocharging compression until the last one where they do no inject any coolant in order to get enough heat to ignite the fuel when injected!
The stock LD28 was available in Europe with a turbocharger, I'd look to getting a Euro Turbo Manifold (the turbo is the standard T3 with a .43 A/R turbine housing) this, along with the Euro Fuel pump assembly to allow for the increased boost will give you a diesel with the HP of a gas engine, but torque like you will not believe.
For instance, the 2.7L Tubodiesel available in the 2000 Frontier Ute had 170 HP and 285 Torque, with a EuroCityCycle fuel economy rating of 35mpg (thereabouts, it was expressed in KM/L) My 3.3L Gas engine here in the USA only had 170HP, and not NEARLY that much torque.
The newer 3.0L Turbodiesel with direct injection is even better!
But I digress. The way to give low end (off boost) torque is with HIGH compression, to get high end horsepower, you get BOOST---intercooled for proper efficiencies. Intercooling is the key, if you intercool a Diesel, then you can leave the high compression as then the temperature will be brought up to autoignition temperature. If you LOWER the compression, then you HAVE to boost high to get heat into the air charge so the lower compression will bump the charge to autoignition temperature.
Remember you can't preignite a diesel, because the fuel isn't in the chamber unitl it's SUPPOSED to be. Problem is with non-intercooled diesels, is that they will not have the smae power as one with an intercooler simply because of less dense air.
You're a bit backwards on what you need to do to reach your goals---might want to read a bit more technically oriented magazines that go into why things are working the way they do, instead of a periodical that caters to a skim job on the technical end of it... Anyway, the Diesel is a different animal! A normal LD28 will return 40mpg in a Z, and with a turbo, the preformance can be startling---easily equalling that of a stock gas engine, if not surpassing it!
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Wow, that is different! Then there are THREE versions of the Turbo Distributor, one for JDM, one for USA, and one for Eurospec!
I guess this makes sense, the JDM and US Emissions laws are similar, so their engine controls would be similar. But the German and Euro Market L28Turbos (rated at 200HP) indeed have a simple pneumatically retarded distributor as I listed above.
Learn something new every day I suppose, but now I am wondering where I got an obviously Euro Turbo Dissy in my collection, when I have it marked as "84 Skyline L20ET"? Damn, the intrigue continues.
Thanks for those photos! The output from both should be similar---Nissan is very standardized within years as to what signals they wanted to incorporate. I O-Scoped the US model 81 CAS, and compared the Waveform to an 82/83 CAS unit, and they were identical traces---I would suspect if you find the right two wires, the hall effect shaping circuit in there will give a similar output to the ECU as any of the other Turbo CAS units. What you will be looking for the Megasquirt will be the signal from the individual pickup on the "bottom" of the Dizzy in the photos above. This will give you the six firing signals you need for the trigger. You will probably have to use the HEI module same as on the other units, but hookup is identical. You can test the hookup using a DVOM and watching the pulses coming out while turning it by hand fairly quickly. The two wires that give you the pulse when you wiggle one point of the reluctor past the single pickup will be the one you want. I might also say that the wiring color and wire position of the single picku will be the SAME as the 82/83 unit because it's the same on the 81, and they both use the same plug to interface with the stock ECCS system.
The upper portion of the dizzy is unused---it is the leading trailing setup that is incorporate in the 81 CAS to interpolate 1 degree increments, and on the 82/83 unit as the megaslotted outer ring to give the one digree resolution.
Good Luck, take a look at Mobys Stickies over at Megasquirt Forum here and between the two it shoudl go together smoothly.
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What defines High Rev Diesel? Isn't the stock limit on the LD somewhere in the high 4000's? 4600 comes to mind.
It will send a Z to about 112mph with stock gearing, so with a little gearing play that top speed could be improved upon, but given a diesel is a torque engine anyway, the boost will make getting to 112 pretty fast!
IMO, the rev limit on the LD28 needn't be raised, it can all be accomplished through gearing, just like on large trucks.
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I've got the manual for the TECII if that would help ya. I am in the process of booking dyno time to remap our 2L L20A for Bonneville from the L28 map that is in there now. Do you have the WINTEC program for readjustment?
"State of the art, 1999" LOL
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Guys guys guys! We are all trying to be helpful, but us boys in the US of A are just confusing the poor gent of Oz.
The L20ET as well as Eurospec L28ET's did NOT have a special optical trigger or crank trigger unit like we got here with the ECCS system!
The dude from Kiwiland is hitting on it, and basically the Non-US turbo cars had a standard style ZX distributor with the control module on the side, and a SIMPLE pneumatic retard/advance cannister on them. For guys with a simple Megasquirt setup, having one of those Euro Dizzies would be the hot, simple ticket for a quick install without having to screw with the timing maps.
Anyway, Kiwilad has it correct, the turbo dizzy will actually retard a SIGNIFICANT degree when you pressurize the "advance pot" on the side of it. If you apply a vacuum, it will move one way to give you 7 degrees advance, and if you let that vacuum off, it will return to the "middle" of it's range, when you apply 7psi to the thing, it will move the OTHER direction about the same amount, for 7 degrees of retard.
Aside from that, the weights and advance points are slightly different, but I have no information on that. A N/A dizzy will not move appreciably when you blow pressure into the pot, unless something is broken!
Hope that clears it up for ya! Good Luck, Cheers!
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The intake he is referring to is a transplant form a Nissan Sedan, not used in the Z-Series from the factory, but will fit no problem. It was used in Cedric and Gloria Saloons and Coupes. Correct, it had a plenum with runners that came "underneath" and curved around the outside of the plenum before opening to the plenum proper. Basically the inlet to the runner is on the fender side of the plenum, and not hte motor side!
I transplanted one of these into a 1978 Fairlady Z, and was amazed by the down-low torque. Then again, it had the "two barrel" throttle body also, using a smaller primary body for about 3/4 of the throttle pedal throw, then a larger secondary body that opened over the last 1/4 of the pedal travel.
You cruised up to around 3500 rpm on that little hole, nad had nice high vavuum numbers for economy, and got a suprising kick when stomping it compared to the first 3/4 throttle!
It's a common intake overseas. I have photos on the laptop, but not on-line. There were two different "TWO BBL" Bodies, also, one for the L20A, and another for the larger L28, make sure you have the right one for the L28 if you want decent breathing!
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I ran a JDM turbine housing, and could get full boost at 1500rpm, and the unit would surge badly at 21psi. But not at 20.
The overspeed is one item, but that is only a matter of balance. The balance really isn't what kills them, the half thrust bearing it what kills them!
The load you place on the compressor wheel (simply put, designed for 5 psi, now running 4X that) quadruples the bearing loads on a thrust bearing that is marginal in the first place.
As the bearing WEARS (and it DOES WEAR) the axial movement of the impeller increases. On lift-throttle event where the rotor assembly makes a full available axial movement and SLIGHTLY kisses the housing, and that is the beginning of the end.
What was in exquisite balance previously is now out of balance, nad starts the beating bearing road to failure.
Industrial turbines have "startup rubs" all the time, and run forever because their bearings are overdesigned. But in an automotive turbocharger design practice is a little less.... So you have a half-thrust bearing instead of a 360 degree thrust bearing.
And no matter where it goes first, turbine or compressor, once it kisses due to wear you are on the road to ruin.
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I used a 60mm T/B from a 91 Sentra SR20. All you ned to do with that is remove the quadrant, and the outer spring, and bolt your stock linkage arm on.
It comes with the POT style TPS. I don't know what the fascination withthe other unit is, other than it accomodates the stock early TPS for people screwing around with the Stock ECU.
For a MS conversion, the Stanza body is EVERYWHERE and does not require rethreading, nor shortening. Look at my Cardomain Page, and you will see that throttle body. Plug n play, baby!
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There is source code available and directions for several on-board MAP sensors that can be used in the MS that allow maps for higher boost levels.
Rick Yaoccuci uses one in his Bonneville Streamliner---I think he is running 30+ or 45 psi on his Busa Motor to make over 619HP at 10,500rpm....
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But the insert is larger diameter, and has more metal surrounding it. Does that not increase the strength of the fastener anchor?
Oftentimes the thread pitch and diameter of the outer portion of the helicoil is different than the inner pitch and diameter, leading to that statement.
KeenSerts arguably are stronger, but those aren't Helicoils.
Also, Helicoils are normally used in non-ferrous metals, so because of the outer diameter and pitch, it would be harder for Godzilla The Torquemonster to pull the helicoiled threads out as the former raw alloy threads....
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Pendantic is my middle name.
Fact being "getting it balanced" after your field fix will cost just as much as a cartridge assembly completely done. Custom turbo balancing isn't readily available, but mass-produced cartridges are readily available CHEAPLY, considering a core value.
Sometimes below $200!
For that price, it doesn't make sense to do the replacement and hunt up the balancing.
But then again, anything I say won't sway the movement of the sun either way...
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I'll let you know when we get ours on the dyno.
In Japan, many back in the day would use the service liners for the L24, overbore the L24, and install the crank and other internals into the block---that way they got the advantage of the larger displacement, but didn't have to pay the taxes required for something over 2000cc's.
Other than running in a displacement limited class, or doing a Fairlady Z restoration, the engine is about useless.
Better is to take the crank and put it in the L28 block. That gives you 2.5L, which was the formula for the GTU cars campaigned by some back in the late 70's and early 80's...
Both the 240Z and the 510 could compete in GTU at the time if I recall....
I know if you use an E88, you gotta relieve the bore SERIOUSLY with the stock diameter pistons in it!
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All I'm going to add to this thread regarding L28's in the 9's is "Old News".
For a "Link" I will refer you to the Carboy "L-Motor Issue" containing the "L-Motor Shootout" at Fuji Raceway from 1989.
11's and 12's were all over.
There were L's in S130's doing 9's and 10's...
It's old news in Japan. Real old news.
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My link isn't working but I am questioning if the cap BLOWS OFF, or if you simply HEAR the sound.
Most common is that you hear a sound like escaping pressure. In fact, what you have is vacuum in the tank. If you have hoses that are marginal, it is possible that the car, on long high speed drives, starts bucking and surging, and running lean because of a vacuum buildup in the tank from the fuel being sucked out. On short trips, you have no problems. But on those longe trips it may completely stop the car. I have seen the filler neck COLLAPSED from this phenomenon.
On earlier cars, people usually plug the crankcase accumulation line from the vapor cannister. This is the only way for makeup air to get into the tank.
On the later 260 and 280Z, removal of the carbon cannister and plugging the line is the culprit.
Opening up the line is all that is needed to resstore proper fuel feeding.
Pressure in the tank, that is a different story. And can be caused tby the same things....
Good Luck. WIsh this damn computer was working so I could get to the symptoms. I have seen this problem three times this summer (and that's saying something since I have only spent 19 Z-Related Days since May!)
BTW, the cap is designed to be SEALED. The venting is controlled completely through the line to the crankcase, or through the vacuum valve on the top of the carbon cannister.
The fuel pump does NOT add pressure to the system, it only imparts FLOW. The restriction by components in the system downstraam build pressure, as soon as the fuel is allowed to flow unimpeded, the thing will revert to flow, and not cause pressure.
To build pressure, you must increase the VOLUME of a given fluid within a space---this is decidedly not the case with fuel in a running car, it DECREASES in volume!
now heating of the fuel will cause an increase in pressure, but the aforementioned valves will vent this pressure (some 3 to 11mm of pressure water column I believe) to either the crankcase or carbon cannister when the car is sitting idle and not running, or to the engine for combustion through the air cleaner or other port if it's running.
Hpe this helps, you can e-mail me directly if youwant. This keyboard is being a beyotch right now! LOL
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Has anybody try to do a ITB setup on these engines and/or is it worth it?
For Real Dude?
There Bryan Blake MADE a set of ITB's, then fired them with a MS...
I could post another photo of ITB's... Mine.....
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5.5 hours is about correct for the kit. Don't feel bad. I went to the NASA high reliability soldering class, and my first MS kit took 5 hours flat start to finish, and it fired up and ran on the first try---I was driving it around the block within 15 minutes thereafter.
Then all hell broke loose. See Archives....LOL
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I'll agree with JM, our L24 with Triple Mikuini 40PHH's routinely got 28mpg, which was FAR better than it EVER got with the SU's!
The Mikuini was designed for OEM duty: DAILY Drivability. Most High Performance cars in the JDM had them straight from the factory. The myths and legends about multiple carburettors ard dispelled pretty quickly once you drive, say, a 1973 Toyota 2-TG Powered Corolla. Toyota drivability and reliability on a twin PHH carbed DOHC four. Same for the Fairlady 432.The linkage was rigid, and you spent more time attending to the cam chain tensioner than you did on the carbs!
The Mikuinis are very simple compared to what you have to go through with Webers or Dellortos. I know, I own all three! If you are getting bad gas mileage, I'm with the gent above who says it's fuel pressure. Many a time I have bought carbs that "didn't work" or that had "bad sets of floats" and in the box was an EFI pump.
You use that pump on these carbs without a regulator?
"Yup!"
Uh....O.K.... Uh, I'll give ya $150 for the set, being they got 'bad floats'! LOL
Anything over 3.5psi and you can sink the floats. I have never had to screw with my float bowl level---though a bad air cleaner causing a differential between the float bowl and the inlet horn will cause really rich running also.
Good Luck, they are a good carb, and will drive really reliably once you figure out what happened to make them go rich!
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Every Freakin' DAY!
But I think you are referring to Automotive Turbocharger Compressor Wheels, and not Turbocompressor Wheels...
Automotive stuff really isn't user servicable, a new center section is CHEAP compared to if the thing is imbalanced and rubs and trashed your inlet housing!
I should post some crash photos. I got big stuff that went "boom"...
has anyone done a turbo z with carbs?
in Nissan L6 Forum
Posted
The Crown Package utilized a single DRAWTHROUGH SU and a Corvair E-Flow Turbo (un wastegated) on a stock exhaust manifold with a tubular steel adapter.
Turbo Tom sold a Holley Draw Through setup using a Rajay and an external Wastegate. This could move a ZX through the 1/4 in 11's, and easily in the 13's at low boost levels.
Ultimate on the carb turbos though were the HKS and Cartech blowthrough Triple Mikuini setups. Both made gobs of power (over 450HP+ when set up with the correct carbs and turbos in the HKS's case) Both mimicked the Maserati BiTurbo in function, sans modulator rings.
Long Story Short: DON'T DO IT! Go EFI, and if you must use triple throttle bodies, then do it with EFI. Drivability nad boost transition during light throttle is FAR superior (nay, seamless!) with one EFI.... Don't get me started!
Triple Mikuini Blow Through Turbo 1987-2003 Now Megasquirted!
1966 Corvair Corsa Turbo 1989-Present, working on Megasquirt Blowthrough T/B conversion!
1962 VW Microbus Single Holley Drawthrough (Turbo City Kit) 1981-82, Dual Blowthrough Dellortos with proper Modulator Rings 1982-87---sold for finances and replaced with dual N/A engine. Soon to be Megasquirted Centermount Blowthrough Turbo Again!