Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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So Follow Me on This One, Guys:
If the SX Gearbox is 2 to 2.5" longer than the original Z box.
And the differential Relocation of the Pre-71 cars is about the same...
Shouldn't you be able to use one of the early pre 71 driveshafts in the back of the SX tranny to mate with a differential in the "late location" without having it modified?
Reason for asking? I did three or four differential relocations for people and have those old driveshafts laying around for the day they want to "return the car to original and I can charge a premium for the parts because everyone else threw them away" (Or that's what I tell the wife!)
If this is the case, heck, I got the trannies, and I might have the driveshafts to boot! WOO HOO!
Looks like SX / KA tranny shiftlever relocation is about where the early trannies were shiftlever wise, too!
Anyone, Bueller?
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Oh, and it ain't no Cartech kit!
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Ahhhhhhhh SSS "Blue Car" it's so nice to see a second generation captivated by the Anime interation of what was live video in the Mid 80's...
That is the Anime Version of the SSS (Speed Shop Sinohara) "Blue Z". 600HP, twin turbo, blowthrough carburetted Mikuinis....
I have the original Video (live, not Anime) somewhere but magnetic degredation makes for a bad viewing. The specs are in a box that comes on the screen during the "Making Of" section of the video, very impressive car, and sounds better on the live version. Blue Flames out the 5" tailpipe from freeflow and slightly rich mixtures on lift throttle, not as a result of Ricer Add-Ons. The video is pretty stirring if you ever have a chance to see it. The Anime is good, but having made the trip to the mainland and seeing the car at Fuji Dragway burns it in my mind!
To answer the question, (spelling may not be right) but the car is Speed Shop Sinohara, or Shinohara.
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EEH, it's nothing. Take a look at JeffP's cylinders from when we took the head off last year! And that was still "nothing" it's going back together right now, cylinders not touched.
I might take a look to see if the PISTON LAND is damaged causing the marking---but the cylinder wall is fine! My bet is broken land, or ring bit causing the irregular wear pattern.
JeffP's was on the opposite side, on the piston thrust face, far wider, and a result of piston clearances at....uh....245+ Degrees Farenheit! If it didn't seize then Jeff, it aint going to! LOL
My concern would be with the piston itself as that should not have a wear pattern there!
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or the maxima 4 speed auto rebuilt using Starion internals? From what I have read, they are the same transmission, its just that the starion trans was built using much stronger parts.
No need for a rebuild and using the Maxima Case, you simply use the Maxima Bellhousing and torquecoverter/flexplate on the Starion Turbo Tranny (I forget if you need the input shaft, it falls right out anyway, so it's no big deal swapping it!) They are both the same JATCO transmission save for the Turbo Specific Enhancements.
The Starion was a 2.6L Turbo Tranny, and like the Turbo Three Speed used in the ZXT's from 81-83, has some extra clutch plates, different valving and shift action, higher line pressures, etc.... Works, but is the same PITA as installing the four speed autobox. Obviously you aren't using the power in overdrive, but having that nice .67 gear for highway cruise is niiiice if you have the torque to pull it off!
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Systems that retard timing and richen fuel mixtures to the point of constant backfire will spool the turbo. In this case, you are burning tons of fuel in the exhaust just before the turbo in essence making a jet engine out of it. When this is going on though, the engine is not making power, just building boost. That is the beauty of the system because it builds boost on decel, when you would normally lose boost pressure, then switches back to normal fuel and timing curves when power is required again.
Dang, who else said that? LOL!
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JM, I won't buy the MSA Shifter for the reasons stated above. Steve Christensen mentioned using the truck shifter "as an interim step" between stock and what he produced. I probably should have mentioned that, but I didn't talk to him to refresh myself on his story till later last evening.
Yes, the truck ieda will shorten the throw, and you can see an improvement, but compare apples to apples: cut the shifter for the handle at the same height from the pivot point as the stock handle to determine actual "shift legnth decreased".
If you work it out or even draw it out on paper, you can see for every say .1" of pivot to end legnth you remove south of the pivot, you shorten the linear distance of shifter throw "X" amount. This does come at a increased effort tradeoff, but we are talking ounces here, in reality---it takes a ounce pull scale to check this stuff. This is given long end legnth being the same.
Now, if you take the long end of the lever and start shortening it, you will see the arc it travel through is ALSO reduced, but the comparitive effort (again ounces here!) to gain the same reduction in shift legnth will result in a larger effort than the decrease on the short end.
Steve designed his short throw shifter to be the same assembled height (if not a bit taller!) for wheel to shifter convienience, without the additional effort required when cutting down the long end of the lever. While your throws may be the same, (again ounces here!!!) the effort to throw the lever will likely be measurably higher than the SMC unit.
But Agreed, Steve did say the truck shifter "is a good in between step, but people are too lazy to cut down the lever much less install new bushings!" And at that point the conversation digressed into the maladies of manning the phones and explaining this kind of stuff to non technical people when he worked at Nissan Motorsports (LOL).
As Technical Ninja has noted, he is approaching the "magic 25mm" elongation of the lower section. Half an inch was not enough (sound familiar?) My numbers are vague because though Steve mentioned them in conversation once a long time ago, I don't remember them, I was thinking 2", maybe it was one inch.... Anyway, it looks like the number below the pivot is subject to a maximum of 25mm elongation (what would the total distance be from pivot to cup end then?) and then upper lever shortening seems limited to stock and maybe 10mm shorter.
What may be a better way for the discussion to progress since Technical Ninja posted real numbers if for us to compile the differing legnths of the rods used on short and long pivot ends, and list them here. We know the stock shifter rods in the transmission require a "linear movement of Xmm" to go from N to any given gear up or down, and from that it is a very simple geometric diagram to figure out actual "Human Interface Linear ACtion" required on the long end of the stick.
Also, as an aside, Technical Ninja is very astute, Steve did mention that in order to get the right "feel" a heavier knob was used!
So whatsay we standardize our conversation here, and start dealing with pivot to end legnths, and from there it's all a matter of simple math (and it also gives people something to measure with calipers when out in the junkyard!)
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"You are right I am quite happy with 12psi at 3100rpms but if I could tune it so it was at 2700 that would be even greater."
Don't confuse Boost Threshold with Turbo Lag. What it appears to be here is that you want full boost at a lower rpm, which means lower threshold.
You can artificially tweak some of those parameters like Bernard suggests by running advance one way or the other. I know I could get 17psi at 1000rpms on a stock turbo with a 5ATDC timing setpoint and flooring the pedal for full fuel. Turned the turbo into a gasturbine. Also will melt down your wheels, blow holes in your housings, make them glow orange cherry red at idle while doing so, melt the braze joint on the oil feed line... etc etc etc...
Nothing is free, for keeping the car on boost instantly, drive the vehicle in the proper gear for the speed you are at, otherwise size the turbo for the threshold rpm value you want full boost to occur. Anything else is a patch for an improperly applied turbo, changes can be done, but the temps at the turbine will increase and life may be shortened. Flatshifter WRC Anti-Lag Turbos don't last very long compared to stuff not subjected to that abuse!
I agree with the last few posts: most timing will optimize power. Optimize power, not necessarily trim threshold using timing.
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What would the possibility be of simply turning off the notches on the stock 81 CAS trigger wheel, and renotching it to the current required configuration? This would give you a wheel that is indexed via a dowel pin from the factory, and transferrable to another pulley should the dampening ring fail (which it WILL DO given enough torque inputs on a turbo motor).
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"I attended the PRI trade show yesterday."
Dude, you suck! LOL
Reading the guide to the show sine it arrived before the last trip the NJ! Are you partaking of the "Ladies Steakhouse" advertised in the guide edition? I can see you there, in Orlando, ordering steaks on the, uh...."Barbie"!
I like the Brackets idea, that was the direction I was going for the 510 and the Camden C80 I have laying around (about the size of the stock A/C pump...)
Anything Lysholm is my friend!
I digress.
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You show me a photo, I can look on any number of older removed CA Spec manifolds in the junkpile and tell you what I have laying around, if you are interested in used parts.
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I've run an NA distributor on a number of turbo applications (carbed, stock turbo ECU, Megasquirt),
How in the world did you get an N/A distributor to interface properly with the Stock Turbo ECU?
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The pivot height doesn't determine the shift throw. The distance from the pivot to the ball (or the cup shaped bushing) at the end of the shifter does. The distance between the pivot and the ball is longer on the truck shifter.
What I do know is that the truck shifter works' date=' and that it is a lot longer between the pivot and the ball than the regular Z shifter. I learned about the truck shifter from a Nissan Master tech, and I've used one since I got my ZX 5 speed ~8 years ago. All of my friends use this same shifter in 510s and Z's as well. So that's probably 12 transmissions over the years (Z, ZX, 4 speed, 5 speed) using this shifter. None has moved the pivot.[/quote']
While the above is almost totally correct, it's a bit short of the truth when discussing a real "Short Throw" shifter.
The MSA unit discussed above is a direct ripoff of the design Steve Christensen of Nissan Motorsports (SCM Shifters, the brand they sold BEFORE they came out with "their own kit") and positions the pivot almost 2" HIGHER than the stock shifter pivot location. The resultant linkage amounts into a throw that is at most 3/4" from N to any gear up or down.
Any "short shift" advantages of a truck rod that utilized the stock shifter geometry---while probably noticable---is miniscule when compared to a real relocation of the pivot geometry.
Additionally, if you are cutting the TOP LEVER above the pivot, unless you keep the same legnth, you are also shortening the linear distance from gear to gear. More than likely any noticable decrease in shift distance is noticable from the application of THIS phenomenon as opposed to a pivot point fulcrum relocation of less than 1/2".
I cut down many a shifter over the years, and the "short" throw of them is always raved about. But until I took one of Steve's kits for a drive, I didn't know what a real short shifter kit was really like. It does not increas shifting effort nearly as much as cutting down the lever length does, as it is relocating the "short end of the teeter-totter" in the equation.
I won't buy the MSA kit because of what happened with Steve and his product. I don't think it's right. But if you can find an original SCM (or whatever the letters were besides MSA) short shifter kit, I heartily recommend you snatch it up, you will be in for a treat!
EDIT: Oh, I also want to add that problems with the plastic cup "Binding" in the shift linkage in the tailshaft is usually caused by debris down inside the hole. Like JM Said, there is depth there---about enough for ANOTHER plastic cup that fell off 20 years ago to get down inside there and bind it up! I had this happen one time, and was amazed by how deep that hole really is---but it still will only accomodate about 1/2 to 3/4" longer pivot rod. Nothing like the SMC rod with almost 2" more in legnth!
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I will be home 1120pm Monday night, have a doctor's appt tuesday AM with some jnkyarding planned for that afternoon (hot finds phoned in to me transcontinentinally!), so if you have transportation to just about anywhere, I can pack up the stim and a fresh 9V and bring my laptops to see if I can connect to your box.
I had a lot of trouble with what I thought was electrical issues, and all along it was my LAPTOP! If it could go wrong, it did on my system! LOL
909.286.2981 is my cel number.
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Thats funny he DID tell me I must have the pressure relief valve. So the ecu does know that the car is in boost? I got all the parts, & just put the cas on the block, and now I'm putting in the turbo wire harness and ecu..--thanks to grayzee I'm reading and printing out alot of your posts on where the plugs go, and what to splice.
The reason for the relief valve is that total flow mapping in the ecu stops at an equivalent of 10psi. If you go into boost below 3500rpm, the vane in the AFM is still in play, but not for long. That is where the relief valve and knock sensor come into play with the timing...on boost below 3500.
So by a flow calculation the ECU "knows" you are in boost, but is only programmed to 10psi...really for air density compensation on a cold day more than anything else.
If you have a MAP based system (Megasquirt) then the delineation between boost or N/A is easy to see, but on the vane type it's kinda nebulous....
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I'm in NJ right now, but live about 20 min north of Temecula. E-Mail me and when I get back next week maybe I can make some time to get with ya nad figure it all out.
I am way behind with house work, but maybe some phone stuff will work---I do have a stim we can plug into it to eliminate the box as a cause, though!
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"i am trying to avoid buying an entire parts car b/c that is a lot more money than just buying the motor. "
Beware of the assumptions you make, as this one is FAR off base! I have spent $100 for a COMPLETE ZXT in Lien Sales, and have NEVER paid more than $475 for the whole vehicle. There are plenty of rusted, rolled, crashed ZXT's out there CHEAP to choose from...
Most engines bare without loom sell for more than 2X my average whole car purchase: $200.
Watching internet boards and E-Bay is probably your best bet at this point of the game---but you will pay almost as much for a "claimed running" setup there that you will for a wrecked or rusted ZXT. Buying the car allows you to get it running BEFORE you do the swap---an IMPORTANT consideration.
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Yeah, the L-4 is a very common swap.
And not only L-Series, just about any Nissan $ banger has been swapped into there: SR20, FJ20, L20B...
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Beware of the myth that forged pistons cure all!
They will break just as easily as cast when confronted with the forces of detonation!
Fix your detonation, find it's cause, THEN make the change to forged. Otherwise you may be withdrawing far more funds from your bank than you ever thought you would spend on "bulletproof pistons"!
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I know if you hit the rev limiter, and you have the retard set to 5ATDC, you can get full boost at just off idle.
You can also get the turbo glowing red hot, overheat your engine, and melt the brazed joint on the turbo oil inlet, causing a dramatic oil fire.
Don't ever get PO at the system and hold your throttle flatfooted while simply adding gas under boost at low rpms without watching the turbo.......
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Got to agree with GrayZee on his last post. Many of the factory brainwashed technicians will have no idea about what is going on in a serious high performance application. For instance, while the knock sensor may have some effect on timing, and his anecdotal evidence of rapping a hammer on the block affecting timing (hey, you can SEE IT) he misses th point that the stock knock sensor is SHUT DOWN over 3500rpm where the engine's ECU goes on the open-loop pre-programmed "full power mode". It's out of the loop there, what they have it for is BELOW 3500, so you don't get tip-in throttle knock in light cruise to boost transition like interstate passing uphills or gradual grades when running cheap gas. That is FAR more common thatn knock under boost in the STOCK form, and FAR more likely to KILL the engine in a STOCK setup...
So beware what the stock application guys tell you---lots of times they are a valuable resource, but many times, it's only from observation, and absolutely no training or factory engineering support to back up their observations. (Meaning they can tell you what it DOES, but unfortunately not WHY---and the WHY is far more important to understanding the workarounds.
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not "choke" cables, "starter system" cables...Unless you have teh flat top HIF6 smog carbs---they have a real choke plate.
Using an appropriate 10mm drill rod, you can make the upper linkage and use a standard Mikuini or Weber downlink and heim joints to connect to the stock piece between the carbs. From that fabricated upper bar, you can install a clamp on throttle quadrant, and go throttle cable easily.
Look in the linkages section here for what you need to make it up, you should be able to get drill rod from an industrial supply house locally.
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I have seen throttle cables and the quadrant attached to the upper portion of an SU linkage to use it that way.
Good Luck!
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You DO NOT need the cylinder heat temperature sensor!
Plug that connection into the N/A water temperature sensor in the thermostat housing used for Coolant Temperature for the N/A ECU and it will work juuuuuust fine!
Been there, done that!
If you have access to an 81 CAS unit, you can mount it externally along with the pulley, and use IT on the later wiring harness, and simply install the 81 distributor or lock your N/A unit down for spark distribution duties.
How to tune for less turbo lag?
in Turbo / Supercharger
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Sounds like it's ocme full circle, and back to my definitions of Boost Threshold and Turbo Lag.
If you want the threshold lower, then size the compressor turbine package accordingly, and tune for efficient combustion. Also driving in the right gear for the speed will make threshold almost irrelevant. Don't try to tweak too much with timing or mixture, as ultimately you aren't efficently producing the power you would were you turbosized and fueld correctly.
If you want a "less laggy" turbo when driven correctly (with less than 1/2 second from no to full boost) then realistically you need to look elsewhere for that kind of response, lag will always be less than 1/2 to 1/4 second when sized properly.
Where full boost is made is boost threshold rpm.
Above boost threshold rpm, time to full boost is turbo lag.
Below boost threshold rpm, time to full boost is incorrect driving techinque!