Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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I hope if you change to another ECU that you don't become a big opponent of MS. I wouldn't imagine that chagning to an 82/83 dizzy would help like you say. The problem must be in another area. Wish I could help more, but I'm stuck in Colorado.
It would be illogical for me to become any sort of "opponent" since the record obviously shows success for everyone else.... but me!
Far be it for me to throw stones at the MS forum, but when I went there, the help I got was FAR less than I ever got from this site! If it was not for Moby and Hybrid Z, I would have NEVER gotten past the original "WinXP" issue, or some of the other niggling issues at startup. The people on the Groups site were more interested in providing me a "guaranteed solution for all your problems that will only cost you $50" but nothing technically helpful to understand what was going on---and we all know now, that the circuit proffered to "solve all my problems" would have done NOTHING in my instance, other than to prove it was "not in the box". For $50 I doubt I would have received a refund after the installation was done! When I posted items about the possible XP incompatibility or laptop problems, it was soundly ignored. I think that is/was the most frustrating part of it all.
I know we are at a deadend here, and I really don't even want to bother with the new MSEFI forum, since they were of no help during the first go-round. To paraphrase a 70's song: "Where do we go from here, now that all of our answers are dried up? And how do I get it going, knowing nobody there gives a damn?"
I jumped wholeheartedly into the program, and like I said, have personally helped guys who were burning up boxes, couldn't get 'em running, or simply didn't yet have the skillset to finish the installation. And while I have SEEN it work, I can not replicate this on my own vehicle. (AAAAAAAAARGH!)
I am sick and tired of using an O-Scope. It is just not making any sense, and like you said, Moby, the shaping circuit of the 81 CAS should rectify the signal to the same waveform as the later unit (and I have personally verified this on the O-Scope) so ya know, it's like "WTF, what now?"
There is a place for a challenge, but this has turned into something near nightmareish porportions, and is shouldn't be this hard! I know it isn't on any of the other units I have assisted with... Hell maybe I'll reburn the code and see if that fixes it, but having to even DO that is something I should not have to do! It worked once before. But I don't think the guys on the MSEFI forum should be using phrases like "The original MSS Code is Rock Solid" becasue to me, "Rock Solid" should not require a reburn on the ECU every 20 to 30 hours of idling time.
BAH!
As for Bernards comment, I already have the inlet ducting from an 85 Z31 N/A, complete with the inlet silencer box, and the K&N Diamond Filter for a Z31T up front (makes for a very quiet intake tract, muahahaha!) so the componentry is already in place for the MAF... I just don't want to deal with modifying a stock harness and running all that crap through the firewall again. Though it would get me my hoodlatch hole back again (routed the MS MAP Vacuum line through there initially.... D'OH!)
For the trouble, I would put Lance's system on there, since I have access to a complete system off the Bonneville Car---that's the one JeffP is lusting after! Muahahaha!
Again, BAH!
oh, and yeah, I forgot to say THANKS to Moby and all here who have helped thusfar. Those who got it running on this specific installation were FAR more helpful that anyone at the generic board ever was!
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Nah, I saw that in "The Love Bug" movies, as I recall then it was dubbed "Jackrabbit Springs"
LOL
Makes you want to watch the movie to go "Oh yeeeeaaaah it IS!"
LOL
(My kid says "Hey dad, those hills look like the ones over by the (Moreno Malley) Mall!"
Uh, yeah, son, that was where Riverside Raceway used to be, right where the mall is now!
"There was a RACE TACK there? Why did they ruin it for a MALL?"
We all ask that same question!)
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Ill play parrot here, and squawk the same numbers:
Roundtop SU's on the 260, around 22 in city driving, and anywhere from 19 to 28mpg on the freeway (depending on average speed, 19mpg was averaging almost 110mph from Oglalla to Grand Rapids on I80!)
on my 240, with L28, similar, 20 city, and around 25 freeway.
On a 240Z with a late five speed, and the 3.36, it was close to 30+mpg when driving steady state, and almost always above 23mpg in town.
My bud with Dual DGV's never seemed to go nearly as far as I did without filling up, so his mileage was considerably less as he was "The King of E" and would go till the thing was almost on fumes, and I always was well above "E" when se stopped for fuel...
Ahhh, the ribbing that occurred then...
I have seen an L24 with 3.90 gears and a four speed turn in 28mpg on a trip from Phoenix to LA at 65mph steady, so multiple carburetion is not bad for fuel mileage...
it's all in the tuning I suppose...
I would mention that with my old blowthrough 44PHH's and a turbo system on it, I got 17mpg in combined driving, while at the track I could get as low as 5mpg!
So driving style does come into play.
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Beware of thinking the MT is the thing corrupting your stuff!
My old laptop was the problem! When it went in to the shop for repair, I got a new motherboard, touchpad, keyboard, motherboard, COM bus.....
It was randomly rewriting my stuff...
Been there done that. Can't figure it out, and getting tired of trying!
I could load the files again and see if that helps.... But who knows why it got corrupted. I am to the point where I don't want to have to drive around with a dedicated laptop to reload my software on the chance the system will corrupt itself again...
I am starting to lean towards the "It should be more stable" camp. This is ridiculous!
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UPDATED AT CURRENT BOTTOM OF THREAD
Close to wrapping it up and giving in to something that I will get support with...
Changed the CAS today, and that's not the problem, does the same thing as it was with the old one.
Now I realize that the thing is giving a random injector pulse every three seconds after the engine dies...
It's been December 2002 since I started playing with this sh*t, and I've about had it. I want to drive the car (more importantly, my WFIE wants to drive it), and helping other people get numberous cars going doesn't help my enthusiasim for the damn thing. I am pretty tolerant of snags, and working through them, but this is getting ridiculous.
If I wanted to make a flying magnet trigger setup to make a standalone system work, I could have done that with a Tec 2...
And at least I know it wouldn't give me these problems.
I really am worried about the randomness of the failures, and really don't think that converting to the 82/83 CAS system will make that fear go away. I need something to drive cross country, and this system is not giving me that confidence factor any longer. It makes me feel like E-Baying all three of them (the fried one, and the unmolested one still on the shelf)... and using the proceeds to get a real standalone system. I really regret not taking up that one guy on the TEC2 system three months ago. At least I've personally made one of those go before...
I really am sick of this B.S., and venting obviously, but DAMN WTF is going to make this thing work???
I realized today all 11 posts I have initiated have been due to MS problems I have been having. Sickening, really sickening.
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"As for turning up the boost, I doubt he did that so quick as well."
Ahhhh, you are a trusting soul to make that comment! When I lived in Japan, the FIRST thing I watched countless idiots do was take that HKS EVC in "Scramble Mode" and twist the knob full up, and then "see what it feels like"... Usually to the detriment of something in the engine!
I might suggest a "Half Cost" replacement, he provides half the money to repair whatever is wrong. That would seem fair...
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congrats, welcome to the fold, I know how great it feels to get it running after a long fight....heck I think we all do
Imagine how I will feel if this CAS I'm installing today solves my problems.
I was in on MS Group Buy #1 for the V2.2 Board. You do the math!
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Pop Yoshimura Motorcycle Mufflers were the preferred muffler for that service while I was living in Japan, they make a nice tone.
I have also seen VW Tailpipes used.
I would stick with glasspacks, as you want a clean dump, and not anything with restriction. The PopY pipes were the right diameter, and usually had a nice headpipe to whack apart and hook up via an expandable flew joint....
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Optical CAS 82-83
81 is, as you know, tirggered differently...
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I have never bored a block before having the pistons to in hand.
I don't see how anyone could do anything but a rough bore until having the pistons anyway. The final hone is done ot fit each cylinder individually.
At least that is the only way I have ever done it.
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may well be, but as long as the MS is powered, the 5vref should be powered.
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It's and easy enough task to do one of the following:
1) Tap the them with a chaser to NPT (the threads are REALLY CLOSE) I did this on almost all of my manifold holes that did not have a Nissan fitting going back into them---it's simply easier to tap them than chase down overpriced hardware that may fit...
2) Close them up using "Lumiweld" and a MAPP Gas torch. It's like an aluminum brazing compound---it works wery well when cleaning up bumps divots, etc in manifolds.
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Oh, I am not sure on ALL the preassembled units, but this one did have hardsoldered relays on the relay board, and it was the same board I have. I didn't take the guys unit apart at the MSA show, all I have is photos of my board that I used to show him that they are indeed removable!
That is when he told me "mine doesn't look like that" and we decided the top coming off the relay was a "point of no return" as far as his MSS modification was concerned! LOL
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SR20 CAS is driven off the cam, and has a four pin connector...
Not that I have been thinking of anything for the 510...
Muahahaha!
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3 to 400 HP from a 4 liter engine can easily be done N/A... A nice individual throttle body wouldn't be that hard to rig up, much like sheetmetal tunnel rams fabbed for NHRA cars...
Of course, using two L20ET turbos (hmmmm, 4 liters, turbos sized for 2 liters, twin turbo.... cheap OEM parts availability...) would also be interesting, and with 10 to 12 psi of boost it would not be a big deal, because you could use a lot of WRX cast-offs, just in duplicate...
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The Maxima Tranny used identical transmission ratios in the Stick version, as did the petrol versions. I have a 275K mile Maxima Tranny in my wife's 260Z right now, and it had the same .7X O.D as the 82/83 N/A ZX cars did. The LD engine had a redline of 4600rpm (so I'm told) and most people have the "comfort level" of shifting in a passenger car around 3000rpms, so Nissan geared them identically. I was disappointed that the tranny and rear gears were not something spectacular---I was hoping I could use them on the Bonneville Car!
The only place the gearing is different is that the Auto Tranny First Sun Cluster DOES have lower gears to move the car along. The gearing in that first hub IS different than the petrol versions of the Maxima. Theoretically when swapping to a petrol setup, it would let you come out the hole a bit harder, yet still retain the .67 OD of the 4 speed autobox for cruise.
On a petrol powered car, that could mean a realiztic 4.3 or 4.6 gearset for off the line (if you can hook) and decent cruise economy for highway usage.
Some things I noticed that were neat on the Std LD I dissected: Teh flywheel seems to be a dragracer's delight. Much heavier, and using the 240 style collar and pressure plate would allow it's use in petrol cars. Makes for speedshifting glory...
I liked the D-Pumps Gilmer drive.... Looked at it for some time thinking of neat little crank driven accessories I could use that for, but......
And of course, there's the intake manifold... What hasn't been said about those huge runners! I was made aware that a turbo version of this engine was available in Europe, anyone happen to have any photos of that setup?
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Randy, I may have to stop through Modesto on the next trip up north! LOL
Ianz has one from a good, running vehicle in his garage right now, and has offered it to me, so if that does it, then I may lay in a supply of "spares" because the 81 units seem few and far between.
It also makes sense to "do the swap before you have problems", so anybody thinking of "rejuvinating" your 81 ZXT using MSS, realize GIGO! If the sensor is already bad, you will need to fix THAT before converting to MSS.
The Magnet Trigger is sounding pretty good to me. My wiring is such that I could easily make a modification and run some triggers off either the cam snout, harmonic balancer, or the flywheel. That mod intrigues me, it lets me say "I built the trigger myself" also! Which would be neat in and of itself....
We are all truly diseased! LOL
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sounds like my old Corvair. Nothing till the top of first (maybe a pound), then then in second I would get 5, third gear gave me 10, and when on it hard in fourth I would spool to between 17 and 21psi depending on the weather.
The Corvair didn't have a wastegate...
That should point you to what is going on.... I will lay money you need some more tension on the actuator arm to hold it closed! Sounds like you are constantly blowing past the wastegate, and the spool is directly related to the load you have on the engine!
Let us know what you find, because it sure sounds like you don't have enough tension on the flapper to hold the exhaust pressure, and it's bypassing on a variable basis.
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The 82/83 ZXT's have an integrated electrically driven vacuum pump and reservoir complete with a vacuum actuated switch to pump down it's little vacuum reservoir to allow the HVAC controls to continue to function (as well as the Idle Air Regulator) at all times. If you ever noticed some Fords, the HVAC controls will change state when climbing hills due to the vacuum loss.
The stock Dstsun system will turn on the electric pump to keep the reservoir at a set vacuum level for proper opreation of vacuum operated accssories no matter what---the reservoir is also ducted to the intake manifold with a check valve inline, so under normal conditions, the engine supplies vacuum, but under the conditions talked about above, the electric pump steps in at a predetermined value to keep everything functioning flawlessly.
On the ZXT, vacuum is what moved the heater controls, as well as AC dampers. On a 110 degree day, the last thing you want when you pass that vette is for the AC to start pumping "full heat" onto your feet!
For those of us who remember vacuum operated windshield wipers, the first thing that comes to mind after seeing the Datsun Pump Assembly is (that would fit under the dash easily enough, and I'd never have slow wipers again!
PssshTA, PssssshTA, Psssssssssssssss(WHACK!)TA! Some of you guys will never realize how nice electric wipers really are! Even the "slow" 240 wipers! LOL
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when in doubt, reburn straight to MS code, check on stimulator with laptop connected, then reburn back to MSS and try again.
This is the process I started doing to make sure it wasn't in "the box"...
And in most cases, it wasn't. When it WAS in "the box" the thing just quit working altogether---havn't gone back to see why yet...
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I just tried to e-mail you something, but excite freaked, and lost the whole thing...
I have been instructed by IT that I must remove any messaging program off the company Laptop other than Lotus Sametime.
I had YM, but rarely used it. Bummer...
Anyway, the gist of the e-mail was with the preponderance of "Fidle not working" complaints, and the bulk purchasing of prebuilt units that have THREE RELAYS HARD SOLDERED TO THE RELAY BOARD we may want to add a graphic image to the sticky that impresses upon new owners of prefab units that they will either have to specify from their builder to not install the third (Fidle) relay, or they will be doing a modification themselves regardless of the "prefab" nature of their purchase!
I have a series of photos that went along with this as well as a phone dialogue that was pretty funny: "Well, a plastic cover came off, and now there are wires, metal connectors, and some small coil on the board, is that what it should look like?"
If you want them for a post, let me know Moby, I'll send them via Yahoo E-Mail, excite seems to be freaking out a bit too much for me lately!
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was the inside of the pan painted at all?
I think the last on I pulled was bare metal...
In any case, the only paint I have ever used [/i]inside[/i] the engine peoper is Glyptal (red electrical insulating varnish). Google Glyptal, and you should find it.
It is good for sealing up a freshly-hot-tanked engine block.
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I am truly wondering if the 81CAS is marginal, and the signal deteriorates when heated.
Sims, did you see your IN DASH tachometer start going crazy at the same time?
I have not had the in-dash tach fluctuate UNTIL this last go-round, which leads me to think it's the triggering circuit in the CAS giving a bad sensor signal, and throwing everything else off. The in dash tach senses firing of the coil, so that pretty much isolates it outside the MS and what it's doing. All the MS does is pass through the signal it receives...
I also note nobody with the 82/83 CAS is not having these sorts of problems...
So when Moby says take it from a RUNNING DRIVING CAR, the only thing I have to add to it is LISTEN TO THAT ADVICE!!!
I have another 81CAS that has been offered to me, as well as the stuff required to convert to the 82/83 CAS setup. It will have to wait till after MSA to diagnose further, I am hardheaded and want to PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that the 81 CAS is useable (which is pretty much a foregone conclusion) but after the modification to the pulley, I want to prove it again with full advance.
Man, the way this thing pulls and the throttle response is phenomenal!
And as an aside, I talked a guy through an MS problem the past two evenings (bought the stuff assembled) and his relay box had hard-soldered relays on the board! But we got it running the first night, and the next evening he DROVE it to Irwindale for the drags on Moby's maps! So I know the "back end" of the equation WORKS! It's just my "front end" that is making me appear as a "rear end"! LOL
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I will go with Jkube on that one let me try this:
12V+ ----- Resistor Pack-----Inj1+ Inj1(-)-----
12V+ ----- Resistor Pack -----Inj2+ Inj2(-)-----SPLICE -----INJ1(Gnd for Injectors thru MS)
12V+ ----- Resistor Pack-----Inj3+ Inj3(-)-----/
12V+ ----- Resistor Pack -----Inj4+ Inj4(-)-----
12V+ ----- Resistor Pack -----Inj5+ Inj5(-)-----SPLICE -----INJ2(Gnd for Injectors thru MS)
12V+ ----- Resistor Pack -----Inj6+ Inj6(-)-----/
Basically I have one common 12V+ lead to the resistor package, a stock unit from an 81N/A ZX, and then the grouping of the leads for the ground through the MS is what is important.
You can run this setup in either simultaneous, or alternating. I found better results while idling using alternatings two squirts per cycle...
The way you have it wired (if I understand what is there) will not have correct resistance, and is running injectors in series, which is not the way you should do it from what I understand.
I hope this looks better now that I edited it! LOL
Close...
in MegaSquirt
Posted
Well, going "fuel only" is an option for those of us running distributors. To do that on an 81 wouldn't b ethat bad, since I could simply swap the distributor in, but then I would need a total rewire of my relay box for the MSS mods I incorporated into it.
Anyway, this is what I did today:
1) Went out and bough some 91 Octane gas, and filled the tank to the very very very top so that "out of gas" is not an option.
2) Dropped the splash pan again, and verified the gap spacing on the CAS trigger wheel to pickup is per Nissan Specification.
3) Stuck a dial indicator on the trigger wheel and checked it for runout---thought maybe there was a wobble making the "120" trigger read the "2 Degree" signal intermittently, causing massive glitching.
4) Went back and read lots of stuff in this forum pertaining to others with problems.
5) Went back out, moved the CAS Trigger wheel to the verified bottom stop of the bracket to take out any "excessive" advance. I thought maybe the 120 degree setting was causing a problem, and using trigger angles from 60 to 120 didn't seem to make a difference.... Soooo
6) Physically measured the trigger angle to the pickup, as measured with the TDC mark I made when I did the trigger wheel mod. I got around 100 to 105 degrees. (getting close, remember that when I used 120, the timing mark was what I thought was dead on the 9 degrees it was supposed to be showing.
7) I went in, started it, it ran like sh*t, just like before. Disconnected the Alternator, still ran like sh*t....
8) Reset the trigger angle from 120 to 90, and then checked timing--my trigger paddle was nowhere to be seen, but the TDC mark I had made was hovering around the 30 degree mark... Then went to 100, and checked timing. Then I realized the TDC mark I had made was almost dead lined up with the proper mark on the timing scale. I trimmed it 1 degree to 101, and used the timing light to null out advance, and everything zeroed.
9) Tried revving it, and it wasn't running like sh*t anymore.
The ONLY thing I can figure was that when I revved it, and it transitioned from BOOST to HIGH VAC and that 40 degree advance bin was called into play, the timing on the rotor was jumping phase, causing the thing to run like SH*T, until I shut it off, and restarted it.
I have the distributor in the engine according to the phasing instructions Nissan gives, and the spark is jumping off the center of the rotor tip...
So if I was off say 30 degrees in my CAS timing advanced, and the advance called for 40 during the highvac bin, that would easily jump the 60 degree phasing of the distributor cap and cause problems.
This is the only thing I can think of that would cause this problem.
After running it for about an hour in the yard, I took it out on the road for a pull. No more spark knocking, and a hard pull with little stumbles. Had a cough around 5500 in the top of third gear, but generally pulled O.K.
I successfully ran from a standing stop to 4500 in fourth gear and back to a stop in around 1/2 mile before being satisfied that it was working correctly for the day.
1 fast Z know my neighborhood, so he can gauge the pull, I was about 4500 in fourth gear at about halfway down the block short shifting the car at around 5000 to stay out of the "cough". JeffP said that was pulling pretty hard.
I guess so for having a 3.36 in a 260Z 2+2...
So for now it seems to be running right, and the CAS phasing on the 81 styles must be deemed critical when setting it up. No ballparking it, you will have to measure it to make sure you are dead on the timing or it will run like sh*t! We shall see how it runs tomorrow evening which will be the test on if this thing is running correctly I suppose.
In the meantime, I am going to ditch the external regulated Alternator, and go with the 81 Internally regulated unit I originally had on the engine when I first started running it in 2002/2003. I didn't have "voltage creep" with it, and it seems like this combination in the car is doing it again---though disconnecting it didn't do anything yesterday, maybe it did have an effect today....
Very strange.
But at least I got it to boil the Toyos, and made a run to almost the top of fourth gear that didn't have any coughs, dips, or power losses. So I am semi-enthusiastic again.