Tony D

there is a group rate insurance for club activities, drives, etc.... ZCCA has an insurance that is offered through a contracted vendor that gives you a decent break on insuracne if you choose to put on an event like a track day, national convention, car show, etc.... Being in CA, insurance is almost a given for any sort of activity. When ou get with Bonnie at the ZCCA for chartering the club (once you hit ten members) you will get more details. I know, for instance, that the Self Directed Driving Tour offered on Friday during the National Convention in Long Beach was given the standard liability rider for a flat rate of $125 above and beyond the convention policy. That's cheap insurance should someone get stupid, then try suing any of the club officers (yeah, those who voulnteered---you are the guys liable!) So for the cost of the insurance, it makes good sence to get insurance, rather than someone loosing their house or ride because some idiot decided to live up to his latent stupidity potential. We just went through this chartering the Emprie Z group that meets over in Ontario, and the club in Temecula. Contact those club Presidents and officers for information on what they went through. Most guys are pretty straight on how they got stuff accomplished. The ZCCA has a "how to start a club" booklet, too. Being the National Convention is in Long Beach this year, that is a good time to talk to club officers from around the country (and the WORLD) to see how they do things, and what pittfalls are out there. Being I am an "elected" officer in the Empire Z (Sgt at Arms), and a quasi-assistant officer at Group Z (events coordinator as of July...) I can offer limited information, but some of the other guys in the clubs orginization can tell you lots more.

RE: #4 Yes, with a Perlux Flame-Thrower HEI module, I also found out that the PCV hose from the valve cover to the inlet hose is conductive when I cranked the engine only to see a 4" spark jump to the black hose, and send off a puff of white smoke each time. The stock HEI was sparking about as far, but not with a blue-white spark that made a CA-RAAAK! noise each time it fired. Additional MSS things to remember: The realy board has hot things on it---do NOT try to remove the board from the box without removing power (don't even ask!) You can repair blown solder traces from the relays with wire soldered onto the board. (goes hand in hand with remove battery lead like Moby said!) A Z31 Turbo Coil makes 4" sparks, in conjunction with the above setup, and it fires ONCE when you power on the box. Pray no excess fuel exisits in the cylinder that spark goes to, as it WILL fire and move the car forward if it's in gear... Do not use jackstands on dirt. (I won't even go there...I knew better, and paid the price!) An Osilliscope is an unnatural draw for a 12 year old--who will not stay away from it no matter how many times you tell him. Hide the scope if you expect to use it later in the week. Batteries all over the table is a bad sign... People who make their living selling "Real" fuel management systems will see you as a threat, and will become cold when you mention the name of the system---gawd forbid you actually build something that WORKS for you without paying $2000 to them for the privilege of being ignored. Soldering upside down is best left to professionals with leather throat protectors. The soldering iron is HOT, do not pick it up off the floor by anything other than the handle, even if you did think you unplugged it two hours ago... Most definately do not jerk the cord and swing it up into your other hand. Do not go for test drives without the rivets, or at least several of the little nuts holding in your tail lights. Do not go for long test drives right away, this gives you the opportunity to realize you have left the driveway without lube in the tranny, and thought it's perfectly quiet and shifting nicely now, unless you are verrrry ginger wit hthe throttle, it may NOT be by the time you return home! (DOH!) It happens to everyone, don't sweat it.

well, hopefully the meetings will not be on the second thursday of the month (Group Z), the first thursday of the month (Empire Z-Inland Empire Club), second tuesday of the month (ZCC of Inland Valley - Temecula), or the last wednesday of the month (Group Z board Meetings)---If so, count me in! Especially since Moreno Valley is just across the 215 from where I live (south of Van Buren by the Gless Farms Orange Groves)... This inagural chapter should be far enough away from the other existing clubs to get a ZCCA Charter, too so you can get the group rate insurance.

well, now, you guys have me curious. I also have a fat-bumpered 260Z 2+2, and was suprised to find it had the R200 in it to begin with... Now with the possibility of it having a 3.36, looks like I will be opening the rear up sooner than I thought. No wonder it works the boost so hard---like my ld 240 before I swapped from 3.36 to 3.7.... I'm curious, maybe this weekend I will check it out---I need to do a fluids flush anyway.

sandblast your friction surface on the flywheel and on the P-Plate if they have wear and the thing will start gripping,and you can restart the "breakin" procedure. The organic portion glazes and once slippery, it compounds itself. Be glad you didn't od your clutch like I did mine: Took it in for a dyno pull, and ended up smoking it (yeah, 250ft-lbs capacity, riiiight!) When I went to pull it out, found the flywheel with a clutch permanently attached! Couldn't pull it off---had to chisel it free. The center of the friction material had violently ripped out of the flywheels ide of the clutch, and attached itself to the flywheel. Spent some time chiseling it all off. Installed my CFDF later that day and haven't looked back. But I am under 300hp, and for that service it has served me well in a heavy 73 240ZT with 265's on the back! On my setup, it appears the tires are the "slipping point" because I just can't seem to make over 10K between "cordings"...

I wished I had an e-photo of this, but I did like the above post suggested many many years ago on my 73. EXCEPT, no welding required: Instead of welding a bracket, after drilling out the ballsocket on the top of the throttle pedal, cut a line in the end the width of the throttle cable (I think I clamped it in the vise, and used a sawzall to make a kerfed slot to the hole in the end of the pedal ) so the cable can slip in. Then heat the end of the pedal and bend it 90 degrees, so it lines up with the hole for the original pushrod. The STOCK 200SX throttle cable assembly snaps into this modification like a factory part! I used two sheetmetal screws to secure the factory boot from the 200SX onto my firewall. You have to adjust the quadrant on the T/B to get teh throttle pedal where you want it, and then reset the throttle pedal stop on the floor so you don't break anything delicate in the setup by mashing the cable down too tightly when you exuberantly floor it! I have run this setup on my Mikuinis since 87. It makes switching between setups easy... No welding, and if you have a vise and a big hammer, you don't need to heat it red hot, either!

"small tires" Nope.... Universally, the technique to reach speeds is to run a taller tire to keep more efficient gear ratios in teh transmission and rearend. An overdrive sucks horsepower and strains the transmission far more than necessary that larger tires running a 1:1 final ratio. I have seen large SemiTruck rims tucked into the back of the fenderwells on MP (Modified Pickup) running diesels. even with the mods posited for the S30 body, someone here is missing the math on the requirement for horsepower. The ammount needed to go from 170 to 190 is more by a POWER of the number, not simply a multiple! BTW, Andy's car does not have mirrors, does not have wipers, but does (due to class rules) have drip rails. There is not much more we can do aerodynamically and have it still resemble a Z. I mean, we are not going to go Stringfellow on it and stretch the front end 14 feet in front of the cowl! (Yes, there is a Z like that!). Best case scenario (and the wide-body is no the way to go) is that an S30 MAY get dow to PERHAPS a .32 Cd, with a general frontal area of around 22 or 23 CuFt... I am sure there is an engineer here who can do the math on that. I know there was a post a ZC.C done by ZBoy that posted speeds and horsepower requirements that mirrored our actual experiences at Bonneville. http://www.zcar.com/forums/read.php?f=4&i=145523&t=145092#reply_145523 http://www.zcar.com/forums/read.php?f=4&i=145339&t=145092 I would say MAYBE 200, and that would be a BIG goal, but unless you are running some NHRA-Class bullet in that baby, making over 1000hp, you are sadly underestimating what it takes to break into the Red Jacket Club. ESPECIALLY in an S30! If you can do it, my hat's off to you, but lay in a big supply of $$$, because your ENGINE is going to cost that much IMHO!

Pop-n-Wood pretty much covered it. The rad cap is a relief and reentry point to compensate for normal expansion and contraction. It should not go under a vacuum, it should allow air back into the system, or those littel capillary tubes in your radiator's core will suck down and collapse. They are very good at containing pressure, but NOT designed to operate under vacuum. I have some experience with collapsing them when I lived back east and had 90 degree+ diurnal variations and tried to outsmart the OEM in the radiator department....but I digress. My observations on Water Wetter: When I went to the ABQ convention one year with the 260, I consumed a gallon of coolant from "pukeover" after hot shutdown (no recovery tank). The next year on my trip to Canada's convention (roughly twice the mileage) I took two gallons of 50/50 mix w/ waterwetter in the car and refill. In 12,000 miles of hard driving I didn't use a DROP of coolant. ABSOLUTELY NO pukeover after hot shutdown. What I noticed with the system before (same cap, same radiator, same coolant mix as the previous trip except for the addition of WW) was that after shutdown I could hear steam popping inside the head towards the rear of the cylinder head. The car would ALWAYS puke a little coolant out after shutdown hot. After addition of the Water Wetter, this did not occur---ever! The only time my rad cap has lifted was after fifteen minutes of idling after an accident where I didn't realize the fan was in the radiator and was not turning! DOH! But thanks to WW, no head warping, and drove another 6K miles back home on that trip---well, Aluma Seal helped on that one, too... My conclusion was that the addition of water wetter was that it decreased the spot-boiling that occurred after shutdown during the heat soak period. Durinig operation, something it did was make the thing run cooler---I could see it on the gauge, and verified with my I/R thermo gun that it was running between 19 to 28 degrees cooler. I was running 110mph, in 103* heat, with the A/C on giving me a 75* interior temperature, and NEVER exceeded 195* with a three-core radiator and a 160* thermostat. (But early cars have overheating problems... yeh, riiiight!) Anyway, the pressure cap (radiator cap) only adds supplementary pressure to insure proper operation of the water pump. If you are blowing hoses, it's because of bad hoses---or the elimination of the bypass line and revving it during times of decreased flow while the thermostat is slightly closed. The water pump cranks 40 to 60psi in the water jackets, allowing a much higher boiling point, and cooling the engine more efficinetly. By running a lower pressure cap, you decrease the operating pressure in the block by a similar ammount, and greatly increase the possibility of cavitation and steam impingment within the engine. Steam formation inside the block during operation can/will errode metal! I have seen industrial engine liners that have pockmarked holes due to steam cavitation---and this is in an open system (no pressure on coolant to keep leaks down). I added a 5# relief valve to the "surge tank" for that particular engine, and the cavitation damage went away. Personally I have 16# caps on everything. I also modify all my 240's with the 280 Puke Tank for the radiator (this all occurred before I put water wetter in). With the puke tank installed, you can fill all the way to the top of the filler neck, and then there is NEVER any air in the system. Without the puke tank coolant recovery line, you WILL be running an air space due to expansion and contraction of the coolant. I just noticed the 260 (which still doesn't have a puke tank) has a full radiator but doesn't puke at all. This lends more credence to the contention that boiling at hotspots inside the engine after shutdown causes the overflow. With the Water Wetter and 50/50 I hear no "popping" after hot shutdown, and never see overflow. On the subject of the stregnth of the mixture...anything over 10% glycol will cause a decrease in heat transfer. But the tradeoff is FREEZE protection more than boilover. Many industrial glycol systems that require efficient transfer will dictate only pure water with inhibitors in it, and only the bare minimum of glycol to keep it all from freezing if that is required! Water with Water WEtter is a very efficient coolant, but without the corrosion inhibitors, water pump lubricants, etc.... it becomes a very high-maintenance way to cool your car! I did run water and Drewguard for a while, but the purple dye was a real beyotch if you got it on anything , so I went back to prestone.... which BTW is the Wal-Mart Tech 2000 coolant---half the price and the SAME thing. Compare lot numbers and sequencing on the containers some time! Aaaah, efficient batch tracking working for the informed consumer! Oh, and BTW, I have inspected JeffP's engine internal coolant passages. He has run STRAIGHT Glycol since new in his car. Everyone told him "NO, you can't do that, it hurts cooling performance!" But he doesn't have overheating problems, and I am AMAZED that after this much mileage, that there is ABSOLUTELY no corrosion WHATSOEVER in his coolant jackets, and his HEAD looks like new inside! No white powder, nuthin! Something to be said for "no water in the system" too, I suppose. Interesting the new generation of Propylene Glycol Coolants tout "no corrosion" as a benefit, and curiously they run with NO WATER in the system! Hope this shed some light on it. I've rambled on so long, I forgot the question...

"without going overboard on the money issue" Well, then you have limited yourself, and the budget given will not get you close. Cubic horsepower is what you will need, and with the aerodynamics of an S30, even with a G-Nose and full belly pan, you will need a lot more than 700 hp to go 240mph. I crew on the LSR Z-Car John C mentioned, and if you think you can go 240mph, I welcome you to come run at Bonneville. Current C-BMS records hover in the 222mph area, with around 1100hp in a current generation Skyline R34 which arguably has a few more aerodynamic advantages than the Brick we all love. I will make the same gentleman's bet with you: you do it in a STREETABLE vehicle, and I will pay you $1. I hope you the best, but it's an unreasonable goal. I will posit, you will not achieve it. Oh, and as an aside, the car, with 3.36 gears ran 13.00 the first time we rant it at Carlsbad. Started the day at 13.80, and got it to 13.08 byt he end of the day varying the launch technique. That was with the four-barrel manifold on it. I would think the car woudl do much better if it was not in street radials and running a clutch-flywheel assembly with a total weight of about 10#.... Yeahy, if the car was run with some wrinklewalls and a heavy flywheel, it think we would suprise many people driving their trucks thinking they would spank a Bonneville Record holder....even without using the 5.36 gearset to maximise 1/4 mile acceleration... Hell, my goals are more realistic: 205mph.... You can say the rules you can ignore the rules, but my experience says you can not ignore the rules and laws of physics...

I tried simultaneous 1, alternating two, simultaneous two, and really didn't notice much difference between all three settings other than the pulsewidth changed a bit. With 2 Alternating and 1 simultaneous it seemed to run the best, so I went with 1 simultaneous to keep injector clicking noise down (odd reason, eh?) For the life of me I can't remember the pulsewidth it shows, but it's around the 730 position on the megatune dial---maybe 2.3ms? My req fuel was around 11.8 initially I believe. I am using the stock turbo injectors, fpr, etc. I have over five hours of smooth idle time now. I actually moved the car fifty feet forward and back last night to check my clutch install! Woo Hoo! Still have the interference problems, but it's not affecting me at idle that much. My idle vacuum is around 22"Hg at 800rpm, and snap-throttle spike is upwards of 29"! Warmed up, of course. My compression (though not checked) seems good as the pulses out the exhaust are even and strong. You may want to check your compression and make sure your cylinders are all up to snuff before going to much further. I had an idle air leak around my idle bypass screw, plugged it and vacuum went from 20 to 22" and idle dropped from 950 to 800 even. Little leaks all over make a difference. I had my 1/4" sensing line off altogether and it ran...rich as heck, but it ran! Remember that lower vacuum means it will go rich. I agree with the TPS Cal comment, it made a lot of a difference on my engine (got it to run!). The Oh-Silly-Scope is on my dining room table now (Beckman 1509---thanks JeffP!) now to figure out how to set it all up and go after the spikes! Good Luck Moby.

depends on the manifold. If you are on a Cannon, yes, they are the same. I did as the other poster did: I went cable. Install a quadrant, modify the throttle pedal by bending slightly, and removing the ball so it accepts a 200SX throttle cable assy, and swapping intakes and such is easy....

I added the full exhaust to mine right now, so I can troubleshoot with out fear of a backfire throwing a ball of flame out the downpipe! I also harvested another stock coil setup and may try that before hooking up the scope to start checking the interferences. I will double-check the .inc files, I'd not thought of that, but the in-car gauge is reading fairly cool too, so maybe it's just running cold. I can't remember if I installed a 160 degree thermostat or not... May have to pull that and check it again. Normally I stamp the thermostat temp on the housing for later reference, and this one has no stamings leading me to believe it's still the junkyard thermo in there---which should be 190 or thereabouts. Then again, with the wrong .inc files it may be off, but as my recollection, even without the bias resistor changes, the differential between bosch and GM sensors was not that great. Come to think of it, the inlet air temp shows 103 to 131 depending on what I'm doing, so I'd be inclined to think it was correct.... More checks I guess. On the other hand, at least I'm home for the next two weeks at least, so I can play in the evenings and try to get some more accomplished. If nothing else, install the new junkyard interior so it at least looks decent.... Thanks for the update Bryan! I'm off to install the slave cylinder and master so I can move it now. Screw it! If it runs, I'm gonna at least TRY to drive it so I regain some semblance of self-esteem by saying "it moves" at least!

WD40 is a simply MISERABLE and USLESS penetrant. It is terrific for it's originally designed usage (Water Displacement) but for this kind of work, you may as well hit it with a rock! LOL Try finding some PB Blaster locally, if you cant find Sili-KROIL. It's manfactured by Kano Industries, and comes in an orange can. I only use WD for sparkplug wires, cleaning stuff after steam cleaning, and spraydown of blocks after caustic cleaning and water rinse... I use KROIL for everything I used WD for before being similarly enlightened. You don't know how well penetrating oil really works until you find some! You will never used WD again for penetrant after using Kroil or PB Blaster. You might search Google for Kroil or Kano Industries. PB Blaster is sold in PepBoys and Autozone now I believe. It was hard to find before, but recently has been marketed a bit more effectively. Hurrah for the Justice Brothers for finally marketing it better (same people who brought us JB Weld I believe...)

Ditto what Sleeper Z said: I have had my CFDF setup since 91 with 250ft-lbs+ of torque, with no problem at all. Break in is critical, and as long as the power stays below 300hp, you should be o.k. with a Centerforce.

KROIL! I took mine out with Kroil, letting it sit undisturbed overnight. That let it break free. You may want to remove the downpipe casting, and clamp it in a vise so hooking on a pipe wrench to extract it would be a bit easier... If that fails, heat the casting area around it red-hot with a torch, and quench the sensor in water, or KROIL, and try again. They can be a real bear sometimes. If you booger the threads, you can use an 18mm Sparkplug Thread Chaser to clean up the mess. Good Luck Man...

"Burt Ward" was Robin. He lives off Sixth Street in Norco CA, and runs a Great-Dane Rescue Shelter. Please, I don't even want to admit why I know this... But Burt is a goodhearted guy. Even an old celebrity doesn't get a break from "Code Enforcemet " morons in Riverside County! I worked as an extra in one of the Steven Segal movies, he was a bit arrogant, and my instructor and I got kicked off the set after making some wise-alek remarks about him getting choked out by Gene Labelle. He's very sensitive about that little incident. Gene Labelle, was a great guy---always a joker, and would give you one heck of a nougie (even grown guys!) He played in many films as a ringside referee. They called him "Judo Gene Labelle" an old Pro Wrestler (and olympic judo dude to boot) that made good with bit parts in movies as well as making a bit off "instructional videos" relating to the martial arts. Thought I would spout on this one when I found it...

Don't feel too bad, for almost a year straight, I got e-mails like that filling up my excite box (the one linked to my ZCar.com username). I publically said I was "leaving the forum" and the mails stopped. Similar addresses: "admin.@z.car.com@yahoo.com", etc etc etc... Obviously a bogus return address it was a group of three or four guys using freeservers (hotmail, yahoo, excite, etc) with free boxes, and obviously a LOT of time on their hands as they would fill up a 3mb mailbox sometimes twice daily with innane messages at least as foul as what you have enclosed here. Sometimes they would address a question to me, and when I foolishly replied thinking I was assisting someone, I would get similar replies "Oh, you think you are so f----smart! You are nothing but a punka-- b---- with no life...blah blah blah...." You get the idea. Blocking the sender only made it worse. There always will be morons on the internet. They shrivel up and slink away when confronted in person. I hope I never find out for 100% sure who it was who had the campaign against me. I would probably become irrational in their presence. Violently so... Shrug it off, they are not worth your time. If they continue, keep copies, and report them to local police---death threats are taken seriouslythese days. Especially over the internet, and when done by obviously troubled teenagers...

OK, so let me get the facts on this straight (from the little clip). This group of guys was looting. Stealing wood. As a result of their getting caught in the act of looting, they get scolded for bringing a kid along with them instead of putting him into school, and their car gets crushed. Later, while being interviewed, one complains "I'm a Taxi Driver, and the car was my livelyhood." That's it, right? Well, I guess Mr. Taxi-Driver should spend more time taking fares around instead of using his vehicle to transport and aid looters. This is indeed a "kinder and gentler" service that I was in---I guess this punctuates the difference between "War" and "Police Action". During a time of war and occupation, with civilian population being governed by martial law, the standing order for looters was (twenty years ago at least...) SHOOT ON SIGHT! Now it's a scolding and lesson they likely won't forget. The only problem I have with the clip is that there was no reason to shoot the vehicle, and were they in my charge, the ammo would have either been expended into the LOOTERS, or the car simply crushed. It's a waste of ammo, and my tax dollars. Given the duty they are tasked with, I think the looters got off easy, and the chaps in the armored vehicle did what they thought best at the time. Second guessing a situation like that is severely counterproductive, and the general tone of the posts calling these guys names shows a gross disregard for the facts quietly stated in the clip. I wonder if theri orders really WERE shoot all looters on recognition, and they instead did this. That would seem a more humane action than shooting them. Or perhaps because there was a child with them, they knew they would NOT be shot, and therefore thought they could loot with impunity. This is not the USA, it is a warzone under martial law. Our rules of neighborhood conduct for our local constables do not apply there.

If you can get "worm needles" or large gauge hypodermic needles and syringes (not the insulin stuff) use that to inject it into the little recesses nice and neatly, as well as injecting it into the backside of the intact boots on the back of the connectors. While wiring the megasquirt, I cannibalized an wiring harness where I had THOUGHT I had scrupulously cleaned the connections. And they were clean from what you could see looking at them. But on the backside of the connection where the wires are CRIMPED to the pins in thefactory harness---they were positively GREEN! So when I built up the MS herness, the backs of the new injector boots got a dose of the dielectric grease, too! It works really well on high-amperage connections like headlights! Especially when submerging the nose of the vehicle

But the REAL question: Did mounting your HEI module like mine cause noise in the system where you had none before? My relay box gets warm, but not above 140 while running. I would be happy toget rid of the jumping tach so I COULD tune... My idle time now is overthree hours, and goes fine, just has the tach, and now it's not keeping the constants. I am thinking about bribing JeffP to come over and scope it, and make a final solution. Possibly a clamping diode across the coil, or something. I still don't understand the interference happening while the car is not running. Until then, I am concentrating on refitting the interior bits and gettign the headlights installed, stuff like that. I have given up until I can hook a scope to it. Maybe that will point a finger! BTW, what does your CHT sensor read after warmup? Mine hovers around 160 degrees, and never seems to get much hotter sitting at idle...

Little bit of advice: Get yourself a tube of dielectric grease, and RIGHT after you clean the connections, apply it so air can NOT get to them afterwards. You will be very pleasantly suprised how much longer the "clean job" lasts. I cleaned mine three years ago on the Fairlady 2+2 (super green connections, so bad I bought new connectors---to replace them "when I had trouble in a few months"---but still haven't had to install them! Over 20K miles ago!) Hope this keeps you running a bit longer between cleaning intervals. I have this stuff at work for industrial severe condition connections, so I figured "WTF" doing headlight connections some years ago, and afterwards started doing it on EVERY electrical connection and my bugs have decreased exponentially! I have actually submersed the nose of a car (by accident I assure you!) and didn't short anything. I was as amazed as my wife was, I can say that!

what you want to do is run it from the thermostat housing, and back to the inlet fitting on the water pump (where the stock water bypass hose goes). Basically, if I recall the circuitry, it goes from the thermostat housing, to the throttle body, to the fast idle bypass line, (then to the turbo) and then across the front of the block to the water line that bypasses to the inlet of the water pump. It's already got the fitting, and is in the same fitting as the heater hose return. This ensures water flow, even after shutdown through thermal siphon---which is when you need it most. You can remove as many of the components as you like (the TB heater is usually removed) but the circuitry is already there, just gotta know how to hook it in, and all the piping is there. For mine, I went to Autozone, and asked if they would let me look through their moulded hose rack, and found some very nice moulded 3/8 heater hoses to go on top of the manifold from the parts I still had installed, and utilized factory fittings---so it looks factory. I used stubs from a Z31 turbo coolant lines to hook up to my stocker turbo W/C center section. This is also where I copied the turbo coolant lines' circuitry from, BTW! Digicam took a dump before I did this mod, so I don't even have a photo I could e-mail you!

Anyone fit a Toronado Driveline to a Civic yet? I helped with a similar conversion to a 69 Beetle once. Yes, I am truly diseased. Driving "kamakazi crapwagons" in the Detriot area in the early 80's was not the most popular thing to do, and I know what it's like to be in the "ricer" catagory---I guess today they would call me "O.G. Ricer!". I agree fully with the original post. Bravo.

Oh EXCELLENT point Nic! I keep harping on another site about being close to peak torque. My mileage quoted was in an L28 powered car with an early five speed and a 3.90 TOWING A TRAILER at about 3500rpm steadily. (You figure out that speed LOL) Anyway, the lowest I got with that setup was 22mpg---but that wasn't with O2 feedback, it was on an early EFI system. The 260 got much better fuel economy, but of course it wasn't towing 800# and didn't have three people in it!

stop n go kills mileage. the biggest gains are when you drive steady for long distances. I get 17 around town regularly, and when I took the Z cross-country was amazed that I could hit 26mpg if I drove sanely. Matter-of-fact, the LOWEST mileage I got on the whole trip during highway driving was 19mpg while I averaged 102mph over 1100 miles from Oglalla NE to Grand Rapids MI. So when my in-town mileag combined is 17, that gives you some indication of what you are up against compared to highway cruising!