HS30-H

Please go ahead and compare. I am interested to hear what you have to say.

Owen, The original post on this thread by member 'nismoztune' has now disappeared. I presume that was actioned by hybridz Admin (?) rather than 'nismoztune' himself. Correction / editing would have sufficed, but whatever - at least it now won't form the root of an internet myth, or mislead those who use the SEARCH function in future. However, the first instance of 'nismoztune' mis-attributing the origin of the body parts on the works car still owned by NISMO in Japan is still in place, here: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=117987 Its at post #24. I think it is quite plain that he thinks the works car is fitted with the Arita Speed 'Akira Z' body parts. Nobody has ( yet ) pointed out the difference to him. This is not just an "historical" point ( important to me but - as I'm often reminded - of little import to certain others here ) but - more importantly - misleading information about the Arita Speed parts, which are still available to purchase and fit. They are DIFFERENT. That is the main point. So Owen, here's your chance to go over to that thread and make the correction without sounding "historian-like". How about it? Alan T.

I'm not sure that you understood my point. 'nismoztune' is leading people to believe that the 'Akira Z' body kit manufactured by Arita Speed is the same as the one that the NISMO-owned works race car uses. They are quite different. The width and profile of the rear Overfenders in particular are quite different ( the works car is at least 6cm wider overall at the rear than the Arita Speed kit ). Can you imagine how somebody would feel if they ordered a kit from Arita Speed expecting it to be exactly the same as that on the NISMO car? I don't see what is wrong with pointing out the difference? Alan T.

nismoztune, That's the second time I've seen you do that on this forum. Let's get this straight. The "Akira Z Full Work Spoiler" ( sic ) manufactured and sold by ARITA SPEED in Japan is NOT the same as the bodykit on the car that you are using as your avatar, and have pictured above. It might look the same to you, but it is not the same thing at all. If you are going to use historic works cars to illustrate points, you will need to make sure that you get your facts straight ( please! ), so as you don't lead others astray. Cheers, Alan T.

No, it is not a Bob Sharp engine. All the work was performed in Japan. It just has one of the old Bob Sharp valve covers. And the way I read it, the mention of the P90 and F54 in the owner's blog was actually referring to his previous engine - which he described as almost standard spec. ( untuned ). The engine pictured above is his new engine - not the same thing at all. I've seen and photographed this car in Japan a couple of times ( the owner is a member of the 'S30 Owners Club' ) and it looks really nicely engineered and well thought-out. Alan T.

Added by the current or former owner I think, Yasin. Simple case of personalisation / customising. Magazines / books / 'mooks' find it hard to source completely factory-stock cars to use in their articles. The first thing they do is contact owners clubs for the marque / models they want to cover, and of course these clubs are populated by enthusiasts who - in the majority of cases - don't have completely factory-stock cars. The publishers can use original press & publicity shots from the period - but that gets old, and everybody has seen them hundreds of times anyway. Can lead to confusion / head scratching. My bald patch gets bigger every day. Alan T.

Yes, I have some photos - but I'm not such a good photographer as you are......... Maybe take a look at my Gallery section over at http://www.classiczcars.com?

The only genuine factory-built Fairlady 240ZG in Europe, I believe. But it owns me, if you know what I mean.

Calling it a "240zg" ( even in lower case ) might be misleading though.........

Yasin, Don't let that book confuse you ( the photos are all from the 'Fairlady Z File' book, published by Studio TAC Creative - yes? ). The LHD car shown on the page you scanned is an Export market car that was privately re-imported to Japan. It is not a Japanese market car. Alan T.

I see no similarity to a Z432 whatsoever. Z432 models left the factory with no front spoiler. You must be thinking of a different model.

Tony, The images from the "Yellow Book" ( the Nissan Sports Service preparation manual for the 432-R & 240Z models ) do not actually refer to the Overfenders that were fitted to the production model 'HS30-H' Fairlady 240ZG. They refer to the 432-R Sports Option overfenders, which were a different shape to the production Fairlady 240ZG overfenders ( they had a fuller curve profile - effectively covering more tyre - and different attachment points ). These 432-R Sports Option overfenders were used on the Works PZR race cars from around the middle of the 1970 season, which used the 8J front and 10K rear Kobe Seiko 8-spoke magnesium wheels ( and which looked like Watanabe hachi-spos ). Perhaps the fitting instructions for the ZG-type overfenders from one of the factory service manuals would be more a more accurate guide? They don't give any dimensions, as the genuine factory ZG overfenders only really fitted properly one way ( lining up with the body shape, and holes drilled in the pre-formed positions on the moulding ): Alan T.

Was it this thread, perhaps?: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=105516

The data comes direct from the records filed by Nissan Jidosha K.K ( Nissan Motors ) with the 'Nihon Jidosha Kogyo Kai' ( roughly; Japan Auto Manufacturers Association ) - which cover the VIN number / body serial number sequences for Japanese domestic models per year of manufacture. As far as I am aware, they are not available at any internet-based site that I can give you a 'link' to. You'll have to take my word for it. If you want to, you can tell the seller that the 'S31' models ( C-S31 and C-GS31 ) were not launched until the 1976 production year. I identified the car in question as a 1978 production year car because the records show that the last 2-seater ( 'C-S31' ) model with the 'S31' VIN prefix made in 1977 production year was given the body serial number 011327. The first for 1978 was - of course - 011328. Final 1978 production body number was 012098. Note that 2-seater body number sequences and 2+2 body number sequences were different. No good comparing one to the other. You gave him some bad data yourself: Note that this is not a 'Datsun', and it is not a '280Z'. It is a 'Nissan Fairlady Z-L', and the engine currently fitted is not what it left the factory with ( it would have been an L20E ). Alan T.

S31-011637 = 1978 production year. It left the factory as an L20E engined 'C-S31' model Fairlady Z-L. 'EVA' brand rear spoiler was relatively popular late Seventies~mid Eighties aftermarket part in Japan. 'G-Nose' is most likely an aftermarket replica too.

It is most certainly NOT an original factory-built Fairlady 240ZG ( 'HS30-H' ) model. Trust me.

No, he meant S31 for sure. S31 is technically included in the S30-series as far as Nissan were concerned. It was an updated S30-series Z, nothing to do with the S130-series. Sparky, Going into the full differences between a PZR bodyshell and any one of the other 'ordinary' bodyshells would fill a small book. They really were quite radically different - even if they looked outwardly the same to the casual observer. To add to the mystery and confusion, not all PZR 'shells were exactly the same.......... But to sum up, rear quarters, rear panel, roof, doors, front wings ( fenders ) and other small panels were made from lighter gauge steel. Bonnet ( hood ) and front valance ( specially shaped to aid attachment of the full engine and transmission undertray ) were made from FRP. Spare wheel well was deleted and a flat panel with strengthening ribs was installed to make space for the 100 litre fuel tank. Sills ( rockers ), some floor panel pressings, all the pressings around the diff, rear suspension and the front chassis rails ( and the air tubes ) were pressed in thicker gauge sheet metal than normal bodies. Lots of the components of the cars were lightened or simplified, and they were fitted with acrylic instead of glass except for the 'screen, which was clear untinted glass. Alan T.

1969 Tokyo Auto Show price list: *Fairlady Z = 930,000 Yen *Fairlady Z-L = 1,080,000 Yen *Fairlady Z432 = 1,850,000 Yen *Fairlady Z432-R = "Price On Application" ( but actually cheaper than the 432, as an incentive to racers ). L24-engined cars did not become available to the Japanese home market until October 1971. The models listed above were still available, but the following were added to the range lineup: *Fairlady 240Z = 1,150,000 Yen *Fairlady 240Z-L = 1,350,000 Yen *Fairlady 240ZG = 1,500,000 Yen One of those any colour you like, as long as its black type situations, I think. The PZR unibody was really quite special, and didn't proceed down the body assembly line like all the other models - so that tells some of the story logistically at least. The low-volume production meant that they were not 'made to order' - so you had to take the plain vanilla colour, which was 918 and already thought of as 'sporty'. Some PZRs did get made in other colours, but they weren't sold to the general public. Strike three. You're out........ Since the first PZRs were made around June and July of 1969 ( several months before they ever raced ) and were 918 Orange, this can't be true. I think you are probably getting the story of another model confused with this one? By the way, the first 'Works' ( Nissan factory race team ) PZR was not 918 orange, interestingly enough.

The satin black painted FRP ( Fibreglass Reinforced Plastic ) bonnet ( hood ) was only fitted to the 'PS30-SB' 432R. The 'PS30' 432 had a steel bonnet, painted in the same colour as the rest of the car. The mesh grilles were different between the two cars too. The 432 had a mesh grille that was the same as the contemporary Fairlady Z and Fairlady Z-L models - same part number for all three models - so there is no such thing as a specifically "432 mesh grill" despite what people who are selling them today might like to tell you. The 432R on the other hand had a 432R-specific mesh grille with a different gauge of mesh and a different part number. Details, details. God is in the details, as they say.

Well, that might be your perspective based on your local market models - which is fair enough and quite understandable. However there were S30-series Z models that offered certain advantages in comparison to others - but they were not sold in the USA. In fact, if some of these models and the parts they used had never been produced, the in period racing efforts of quite a few teams would have been hamstrung for lack of appropriate parts and the legality in homologation to use them. We should not shut our eyes to that fact. I understand the HybridZ ethos, and I don't have any problem with it at all. I think it makes complete sense. But radical modification of a car to the extent we are talking about here ( in 2006 ) is really not comparable to what was going on in period and within the rules of the race classes of that period. We have to agree that comparing one with the other is fairly pointless in many respects. Once we start modifying properly, we can pretty much make almost anything perform radically better than it did when it left the factory. I think you are comparing the S30-series Z ( first released for sale to the general public in the last weeks of 1969 ) to cars that were - essentially - originally designed anything up to twenty years before that. You are not really comparing like-for-like. The Z had the benefit of being designed and productionised at a golden time; a nice light unibody and some relatively good and up-to-date suspension design, but without the constrictions of safety legislation that came a few years later or the perceived need for 'Luxury' appointments. Design Concession ( with cost-cutting being hugely influential on the design ) left us with a great base to work with. To compare that with cart-sprung, ladder-chassised products from Europe - produced in countries effectively still recovering from wartime devastation even into the 1960s - is fairly pointless I think. That's my feeling anyway.

"BRE orange"? That's a new one on me. Since 432s were rolling out of the factory in Japan before Pete Brock had ever clapped eyes on an S30-series Z, I'd have to say that's pretty unlikely really. 1969 factory colour choice for the PS30 Fairlady Z432 was: #901 ( GP Silver ), #905 ( GP Red ), #919 ( Yellow ), #920 ( Safari Gold ), #904 ( GP White ), #907 ( Green ), #918 ( Orange ) - the same seven colourways that the contemporary Fairlady Z and Fairlady Z-L models were rolling out of the factory in. yoogener, The 432 was only really externally distinguishable from the other models by the small visible details, like the wheels, twin-pipe muffler and emblems. If you were building a 'lookalike' then it would all hinge on the small details really. Are you possibly thinking of the 432R? That letter 'R' denotes something a lot more special and complicated under the skin, a few more external differences, and only ONE factory colour choice for cars sold to the general public ( #918 ).

Well, what can I say whilst still trying to be polite? It sounds as though the drivers / mechanics don't know what they are doing (?). Maybe it would be an interesting experiment to send you out in one of their cars, and find out if its a driver issue, a setup issue, a basic mechanical design issue, or indeed all three. I for one would like to hear the results and your feedback. They really shouldn't be as slow as you describe. No, as I wrote before - the XJ13 never raced. It never took part in a single race, let alone Le Mans. However Jaguar did win at Le Mans ( five times alone in a single decade ) as well as at every other major European track you can think of. They did "turn", and they turned as well as the tyre technology of the day would let them turn; just like all the other top level racing cars of the day. They are still fast ( comparatively speaking ) today in historic racing, and I reckon a properly prepped and well-driven 'C' or 'D' type, or a nice 'Low Drag' E type would scare the sh*t out of you. I'll see what I can find. It might be a one-off photo of that particular car though ( John French, Queensland Australia, 1970 ). Well said about the oldies by the way. I think a lot of people forget about the context when they start talking about what is fast and what isn't. Frankly I would damn well expect a modern car to be faster than some of the oldies given the time gap and technological progress involved between now and then. Anybody who slates them as "slow" needs to be asked what they were doing at the time those cars were current. Maybe they could have been standing behind Phil Remington, telling him what he was doing wrong..........

I didn't realise that you needed "emissions crap" on your race cars over there (?). Horrible electrical systems and leather straps? You could be talking about the S30-series Z if I screw my eyes up and look at the screen a little sideways. S30-series Z diff nose strap in rubberised canvas, anyone? At least the Alfa straps were made by Prada......... You won't dent my affection for Alfa by pointing out their weaknesses. The real Alfisti know all about the weaknesses, but still love them because of their brio and everything else that goes with it. They still had soul back then. Here's an action photo that I like. No sniffy comments from the back of the class about too much roll stiffness if you please

bjhines, Thanks for giving me a smile after reading your post. You sound a little like one of the single-marque "purists" I have occasionally met at track days and sprint meetings here in England. Some of them drive 240/260Zs, and think that they are the best thing since sliced bread.... Having watched works Autodelta Alfas race since I was knee-high to a Campagnolo wheel ( and having owned a couple of 105-series cars myself ), I have to wonder whether the weak link in the chain as far as your local Alfa racers are concerned is the quality of the preparation and driving?.......... Alfas won PLENTY of races in period, so there has to be something wrong if your friends are making them "unreliable" and are losing "a lot of parts and fluids on track..." That's a BIG statement, and I'd really like to see you qualify it. Surely you must be pigeonholing the Z, and comparing it roughly like-for-like against something in roughly the same weight, engine capacity and price ranges ( ? ). If so, then what makes and models? Let's discuss. Again, I'm scratching my head and wondering just what your local guys are doing wrong?! Maybe your talents are being wasted, and you are actually the fastest driver in your whole state? McLaren might need to consider chucking out Lewis Hamilton for 2007 and sticking you in their car alongside Alonso. Go BJ! Hmmmm. I only saw one Jaguar in this thread so far ( the XJ13, first seen in post #64? ) and that one was a one-off that never actually raced. I guess you could be talking about the Jags that won the Le Mans 24hrs race five times outright in the 1950s? In which case it was a good job that all the other cars in the race obviously couldn't "turn" either............ Either that or they broke?