HS30-H

REALLY? I could have sworn that 'Orestes of Argos' was the eBay ID that Eiji sometimes uses ( even if he perhaps doesn't want it to be widely known...... ). Friends of mine have bought from 'Orestes of Argos' and told me that it was actually Eiji...... Well, if it is Eiji ( and I still think it is ) then maybe I should not be blowing his anonymity. If it is not Eiji, then I still think these light covers are the good Japanese repros that sometimes hit the market, and that the seller's rep should speak for itself. Having had a lot of original covers pass through my hands over the years ( I reckon at least 20 sets if not more - both used and NOS ) my experience is that the very earliest factory items were steel channel section, made from two pieces butt-welded together then chromed. After a couple of years they started making them from stainless steel ( still two pieces butt-welded together ) which was then polished to a high shine. The replicas I have seen are chromed, not stainless.

I'm don't think he needs any selling advice from the likes of me. Having sold some items on eBay myself, I completely sympathise with him. Some of the questions you get asked make you wonder whether the people asking them are even on the same planet. I reckon he's probably just keeping it short and sweet with you. Don't take offence when it is more likely that none is intended. Bear in mind that he is Japanese, and that Japanese men generally have a reputation for being somewhat sparing with words. Just ask their wives.......... The question is - are you a 'potential buyer'? If you are, make your bid and let your money do the talking. If you are the winning bidder, he will do right by you - I'd stake what little reputation I have on it. The seller is honest and responsible and the item he is selling is good. The only question to be answered is - how much do you want to pay? The mounting hardware worries can be answered with some Rivnuts and some stainless countersunk screws, which should cost just a couple of Dollars. Alan T.

He is not "dense", I can tell you. I've met the seller ( a very nice, polite and honest person ) and can tell you that he has a very good reputation. He runs a company called 'Datsun Spirit' ( look it up ) and his eBay feedback of 100% positive on over 600 transactions is a pretty good indicator of other people having the same experience as me. What do you need to know about the original factory hardware for this type of cover? The auction states that no hardware is supplied with them, and this thread has pictures of what is missing. The original hardware is hardly high tech stuff, and you could do a lot better yourself if you really wanted to. These replicas are excellent quality, and will probably not be around forever. Get them while you can if you really want them. Lots of people have talked about making accurate replicas ( I've even supplied samples to two individuals who wanted to try ) but I don't personally know anybody who has been able to get the shape and style right and still keep them a reasonable price.......... Are you seriously considering making a bid? If you are, don't bother asking any more questions about missing hardware. Fabricate your own - it will be better. Alan T.

Not guaranteed to be exactly the same ( there are many versions of versions of versions ) but this should give you a rough idea:

That's a bolt-on external coolant passage. It links up the passages running through the head.

Jeff, They look very similar to the extra-wide version of the ZG-style rear overfenders developed and made by a small company called 'Marugen Shokai', based in Hokkaido, Japan. I have no idea where 280ZForce's rear overfenders were originally made, but they look very similar to the Marugen Shokai versions....... This is a company with a very high reputation in Japan, renowned for producing some of the most accurate replicas of the original factory ZG parts on the market today. They make an extra-wide version of the rear ZG factory-style overfender, and you can see it on one of the pages of their website, here: http://home.att.ne.jp/sky/FairladyZ/Body/Bodymain.htm

"Sorta cheated"? 4s 4 m4tt3r of f4ct, I us3d to own 4n 4lf4 Sud.

.........to a racing school, where your time and money will arguably be better spent than in fantasising about 21st century "race" aerodynamics on a forty year old car that will only bump it up into a category that it doesn't stand a chance in. ( Disclaimer: The above is not an "attack" on anything or anyone, living or dead. May contain traces of nuts. Objects in the mirror are probably part of your face. Your statutory rights are not affected. )

That's an ( empty ) ALFA Sud engine bay. Missing its flat four engine and FWD transmission........

Don't assume that what the engineers and stylists wanted or preferred was what ended up on the showroom floor. There were many battles of wills that the accountants and sales people won against the designers and engineers. Both front and rear spoilers were designed and ready for the S30-series Z at launch in late October 1969, but they were not available in some markets. In the case of the USA/Canada market models, the accountants ( and one very senior marketing man in particular ) decided that the market did not require them.

Be cautious here. Not all of the mounting points for such an aftermarket airdam are shared between the standard 'short' nose and the G-nose styles. If you see such aftermarket airdams ( as in that picture of the white car ) in Japan, they are usually specific to the G-nose style front end. The mounting points are different, as are the shapes of most of the 'short' nose and G-nose style airdams. Some already pictured in my previous posts ( look back at the start of the thread ), but the final Nissan works team version from '74/'75 can be seen on the LY-engined works car that still belongs to Nissan/NISMO. Taking it as read that each evolution was theoretically more effective than the previous version, this would effectively be Nissan's works team's opinion on what was the most effective solution at that point in time:

.................

Question: You mention a race "category" above - but can I ask what kind of category, under what sanctioning body, you envision such a car could run in, and be competitive ( especially as you mention "limited engine work" in the same sentence )? Such radical unhomologated body modifications will usually bump an S30-series Z up into a category or class where it is going to be less competitive. It would be akin to putting a Middleweight boxer into the Super Heavyweight division. Alan T.

Higher resolution versions, from the original sources: AUTOCAR Magazine test 1: http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.aspx?AR=231443&CT=V AUTOCAR Magazine test 2: http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.aspx?AR=231444&CT=V CAR Magazine test 1: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Video/Search-Results/Video/Features/Nissan-GT-R-vs-Porsche-911-Turbo---part-one/ CAR Magazine test 2: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Video/Search-Results/Video/Features/Nissan-GT-R-blasts-around-Rockingham/

There's some pretty fundamental misunderstanding going on here. I'll try to keep this short and to the point, but here are a few facts that I hope will help keep this discussion of the 'G-nose' in focus: First of all, the 'HS30-H' Fairlady 240ZG model - as sold to the public in Japan - was not an exercise in selling a prettied-up ( or uglied-up, depending on your viewpoint ) version of the S30-series Z just for the hell of it, or a statement in state-of-the-art aerodynamics. It was an 'HOMOLOGATION SPECIAL', built and sold specifically to legalise the use of special body parts in the JAF/FIA Group 4 race category. Unless Nissan made and sold over 500 of these so-equipped cars during a stipulated period, they would not be allowed to use the parts as a base on which to build their Gr.4 and Gr.5 race cars. So nobody said that the Fairlady 240ZG model - or by association the special G-nose parts sold separately - was any kind of "magic bullet". It did improve the top speed capability of the road car slightly, and it was claimed to aid high speed stability too, but it was never sold as some kind of 'cure-all' for the shortcomings of the standard S30-series Z body. The Fairlady 240ZG only existed because it was necessary for it to exist. Here's what people seem to be forgetting: The factory race G-nose was always intended to be used with an additional front spoiler / air dam, and as long as these were freely available to be bought over the counter by the general public, and would fit the standard road 240ZG, then they were legal for race use. Testing the standard road car style G-Nose ( without a spoiler or air dam ) as though it is a race car part ON ITS OWN is to completely miss the point. As for the standard body of the S30-series Z car; anybody who thinks that the factory and the designers never paid a thought to aerodynamics is not in command of the full facts. Aerodynamics were tested, but any radical changes to the basic design as a road car were thought unnecessary, as the car would perform well enough in the parameters of normal ( legal! ) road use. Is everybody forgetting that these were road cars we are talking about here? The road car was good enough for the times and people it was created for. Again, you are getting data for the road model mixed up with your thoughts about the race cars. Do you not understand that the road ( homologation ) model - the 'HS30-H' Fairlady 240ZG - was only made in order to legalise base body parts for the race program. Citing the road model in your discussion of the aerodynamics of the race cars is to completely miss the point of what the road car was made for. I see people on this thread saying they can do "better" now than Nissan did over 36 years ago. So what? "Go for it". Maybe they can. But don't forget that replicas of the factory works-style G-nose, with the final version deep front air dam / spoiler and all the associated Gr.4 / Gr.5 parts are still readily available and will fit a car without too much pain. They were used to good effect in-period, and are pretty much a known quantity. Feel free to draw, design, build and test whatever you want - but don't write everything from the early Seventies off as though it is some sort of prehistoric junk. I think you'll find that a lot of the time - even given a clean sheet of paper - you'll come up with something that doesn't look a million miles away from what was done 36 years ago. Throwing in those "this isn't classiczcars.com" comments seems so unnecessary. We all know what forum we are on here, and I think that what we are discussing here is relevant and appropriate to what HybridZ is about. Alan T.

Montezuma, Are you sure that you are talking about the same thing here? As far as I am aware, the Japanese-sourced wide works-style Overfender set that you are copying is based on the works / Sports Option 'Type B' ( final gen ) set, and not the Spirit Garage car (?). The bodywork on the Spirit Garage race car is - as far as I was told by owner / builder / driver Itagaki san - unique, and hand-made for the car. There are no aftermarket parts to sell.

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm just trying to get my point across: I maintain that there is something to be learned from looking at those old cars, and I believe there are people here that are interested to see them, and discuss them. I think my point about the ducting on the period race G-nose is applicable to both race and street use today, so there's at least one example of reference to past practice being something other than "counterproductive" I believe. Do you disagree?

If they were "trying" to use parts that the scrutineers didn't know should be legal ( because of period homologation / use ), then they would need evidence to back up their claim. Either it is eligible / legal or its not. I don't see how wilful ignorance is going to help anybody. Sounds to me like you resent their very existence (?). I started this thread as part of the Windtunnel test section, as I believed a little look back at what had been done in the past was both relevant and interesting, and something could be learned from it. You might have noiticed that the 'G-nose' used in the Windtunnel tests was nothing like a factory item, and contained no ducting ( as seen on the factory race cars ) whatsoever. I don't think you have to look too far for "good" ideas, and - as far as history goes - only a fool would ignore such information wilfully. But then looking back at things done in the past is sometimes risky on HybridZ. You might get labelled as a "Purist" by a New Puritan.......

Here's a rear spoiler ( standard Japanese market part, also seen on certain Export market models ) on one of the works 1972 East African Safari Rally 240Zs, as an example:

"....to try and justify....." ? What a strange way of putting it. You make it sound as though building and using a period-correct and period-legal race car is in some way just a strange affectation. When all is said and done, the "best aero solution" is to start off with another car entirely........ Perhaps something designed and built within the last two or three years, instead of something nearing forty years old? "....new designs of old cars." ? That one went straight over my head, I'm afraid.

There was almost nothing 'aero' related on the Works Rally cars, I'm afraid. Just about the only concession to downforce or air treament / utilisation was in the rear spoilers, and only the later cars were fitted with them ( and even that depended on the event ). Fact is, there were other more important issues for them to be addressing on the cars and aero was quite low down on the list of priorities. The amount of time spent at the highest speeds on European mainland events ( gravel, snow, tarmac and mixed stages ) was low, and events with occasional sustained high speed sections ( such as the Safari Rally ) also had sections where aero additions could get in the way or risk retirement through damage. So, there's not much I'm afraid - but that could well be a blessing for you when you are building a rally car. Lots of other things for you to worry about getting right!

Mike, The factory race cars ( and for that matter most of the privateer team cars ) didn't use the ducts that were seen on the second generation ( 1972 ) Fairlady 240ZG road model. The ducts were added to the road cars in response to overheating / fuel percolation issues connected to the cars that were fitted with aircon as standard equipment. The cars were found to be suffering from the overheating / fuel perc issues in heavy summer season traffic ( but not on clear open roads ) and the ducts were added in an effort to effect a cure. They were nothing to do with homologating extra parts for the race cars, even though they look that way inclined. Best if I e-mail you about this direct, as I have some photos and data on specific examples to show you that might help with any possible scrutineering hiccups on your car........ Cheers, Alan T.

Here's a very mild ( 10.5:1 compression ) example. 1971 Nissan 'works' rally car engine strip. Semi-domed piston crown with machined valve cut-outs. Not quite at TDC, but at least gives an impression of the shape.....

Mike, What's the local situation with wheel diameter? They are letting you run 15" - yes? I think the only limiting factor you'll have on your brake rotor diameters will be the insides of your wheel rims.......... ! As far as radical brake setups *pre-'77* goes - the sky's the limit. I can provide you with evidence of inboard rear discs and MK63s in use pre-'73 if you need it..... Hi Martin, how are you? One of the cars was running in Group 4 ( E4621 'Safari' head on injection and local drivers ), and the other one ( with the injected LY and the Japanese drivers ) was running in Group 5 - am I correct? Can I ask, did the document come via Mr v.B, and is that Wakabayashi san's or even Nanba san's handwriting, do you think? Best regards, Alan T.

Do you mean "planning" as in "this is a serious project", or "planning" as in "I have been eating far too much cheese before going to bed"? Incorrect. The Nissan 'L-gata' engine module was designed in-house at Nissan ( project chief was Mr Hiroshi Iida ) during 1964 and early 1965, and was first used in the H130 model 'Cedric Special Six' which was launched in October 1965, featuring the L20 six. So, design of the L-series range of engines was started a full two years before the Japanese government forced the merger of Prince Motor Co. with Nissan...... The only major similarity is the fact that the S20 and Nissan's L6 engine were both six cylinder inline engines. I don't see any other similarities really...... ? That'll be the cheese. Can be strong stuff. NHK is Japan's state-owned television and radio network, not a "news channel". The gentlemen in the YouTube clip ( snipped from the NHK 'Project X Challengers' TV series episode called 'The Last Prince' ) are Mr Yasuo AOJI - Prince racing team manager, and Mr Shinichiro SAKURAI - often known as 'Mr Skyline', and responsible for overseeing design and engineering of Prince and subsequently Nissan's race activities, as well as production models. The car in the clip is - ironically - a replica, built by Sakurai san's company 'S&S Engineering'. Now you've really lost me. What's the point of making a car that looks like something - or at least using it as your inspiration - and then changing the looks so drastically? Seems to me that you might as well start with a clean sheet of paper. The very first Prince R380 was actually based on a Brabham BT8 open-topped sports racing car. Seems to me that you could start out with a BT8 replica or a replica of a Lotus sports racer of the same period' date=' and modify [i']that[/i] rather than starting from scratch. But what class / series would this fantasy machine race in, and why would you stick a whacking great long, tall & heavy Nissan L6 in the middle of it?! Maybe I'm not eating enough cheese, but I can't see it.......... Alan T.