RebekahsZ

Yes, I agree. Will keep an eye on it as your suggest. Sometimes the simple solution is the right one, but sometimes it backfires. Interestingly, while my pedal feels much more confident and firm, I still have clutch disengagement trouble. Going inside the bellhousing - I've tried to avoid it, but it is inescapable.

My stock clutch releases great at normal city driving speeds. But, at the track, shifting at high power/rpm, the darn thing won't disengage to allow shifts fo 3rd or 4th gear. I've been thru the hydrualic system and it is working fine. I am, however, tired of how fast the clutch hydraulic fluid gets filled with clutch dust. My first two drag nights the car shifted great, except that the last run of the second night I was trying to slip clutch at the line to keep my axles from breaking. A guy from the stands came over to praise my car's performance and to tell me that my clutch was really smelly, even up in the stands...must have cooked it. So, I want to replace my entire clutch/pressure plate system (and flywheel if needed). Key Point: I want to use a system that includes a non-GM throw out bearing. From my research that leaves me McLeod and Quartermaster. Please give me your recommendations/experiences with these two clutch systems. I want to get something in expedited shipping tomorrow. Got a big drag weekend planned in 8 days.

Back from fabricator. Clutch feels SO much better!

Drove car to work yesterday (6 miles round trip) and to fabricator last night; came back tonight (20 miles round trip). Fluid in master cylinder already turning black again. Firewall/master cylinder/inner fender brace completed; pedal feels 100% better, clutch is DEFINITELY disengaging in driveway. This was a great modification. However, on ride back from fabricator's shop poor clutch disengagement at high power is unimproved; drives great when loafing around. I have attached pictures of the darkened fluid in the master cylinder to contrast its color against the fluid I heated in a skillet: the problem isn't heat, it is clutch dust (the metalic aspect of the contaminant is really obvious tonight). Time to get inside the bellhousing (which one reply told me way back last week). I would go to an LS7 kit, but I want to get away from the GM throwout bearing. Best I can tell, my options for an alternate throwout bearing are: Tilton, Quartermaster, and McLeod. Tilton is out this time because they don't have a kit; I would have to be really smart about putting together all the other components of the system. That leaves Quartemaster and McLeod. Posting new thread to get suggestions from the forum. Want to get parts on order ASAP and will pay expedite shipping charges.

ETs, 60' and mph?

Thanks. Familiar with the drill mod. I have already got an over-size aftermarket braided stainless AN3 clutch hydraulic line... Did the drill mod fix your trouble on your Corvette? I've done every modification to the hydraulic system that is described in LS1tech for this problem without improvement. Time to look inside bellhousing, but I'd like to have the parts on hand before I open things up.

I'm having a problem that, according to LS1tech, is pretty common: great shifting at "normal" rpms, but inability to shift into 3rd and 4th gear when shifting at 6000rpm when rowing thru the gears for max acceleration. I'm lifting off throttle and using the clutch pedal, so I'm not doing (or expecting) anything insane. I've serviced the hydraulics and added venting to the bellhousing and cleaned the inside of the bellhousing well to include the sleeve of the throwout bearing. I've bled like crazy and have a pretty nice pedal. Now that I have a vent hole in the bellhousing, I can see the flywheel, clutch disc and pressure plate. This is kind of hard to describe and a video may be needed: When observing clutch operation from under the car, with my daughter depressing the clutch, I noticed something interesting about my clutch disc. Now, I've never held a clutch disc in my hand, so I'm looking for advice here... When the pressure plate releases the clutch disc, space appears between the two organic clutch material and the metal disc in between them. When the pressure plate comes back down, the space between the components of the clutch disc disappears. With the car in gear on jackstands and the clutch depressed, the rear wheels do not spin. However, when I'm under the car watching the pressure plate, I can't observe any space between the pressure plate and the clutch disc because of the spreading of the clutch disc. Is this normal? Also, does anybody know the thickness of a stock new clutch disc, and the thickness of a clutch disc when it is time for replacment? Is it possible that my symptoms are simply indicative of a worn out clutch disc? What are the symptoms of a clutch disc that needs replacing? My second night at the strip, folks in the stands told me that my clutch was really smelly, but I attributed that to my efforts to slip a little clutch at the line to protect my axles. I have not smelled it any other time. I do not believe the clutch is slipping, except when I'm slipping it on purpose. Otherwise, clutch has 18k miles on it. Please help if you have knowledge or experience to contribute.

No, I haven't reinstalled a STB since doing the V8 swap. Good idea.

3/4 of the drivers weight goes to the rear wheel loading[/u]. For you guys looking for that perfect 50/50 you might want to forget about moving the battery - mine is in the stock position in the engine bay. In the meantime I'm going to have to hook up with the local Porsche club and learn how they drive 911's. Does this mean that by getting fatter over the 20 years I've owned this car, it has become better just from all the donuts I eat? Perhaps that is why the fat as_ who owned the car before me broke all the drivers seat mounts out! He was just trying to improve his understeer tendencies!

That's the basic idea, except with my master cyl, the hydraulic line comes out of the snout of the master cyl. I have my parts together and the new master cylinder installed. If I get done with work early enough, I'll have car at fabricator tomorrow. Final product to be posted late this week. I had hope that with a smaller master cyl the firewall wouldn't sag so much, but it still does. I think bracing up the firewall will give me a fair amount of more useable pedal.

No driving yet, just moving around the driveway. Boy, the pedal throw is SO LONG after getting used to the short stroke that the 1" master cylinder allowed. Gonna drive it to work tomorrow.

Thanks guys-I hadn't imagined any sagging with the crossmember removed. I was trying to imagine getting those darn polyurethane motor mounts apart and I just sort of lost my mind. Thanks for the ribbing, SUNNY. At 45, everything is kind of sagging around here, obviously the gray matter is too. A 36" extension....where can I get one of those? (I'm serious). I hope it is Harbor Freight, cause that would cost a fortune at Sears.

That is really well done. Nice work!

Hey guys, I may be doing a clutch job sooner than expected and I'm hoping to avoid having to pull the whole motor and trans (radiator, wiring, hoses, etc). Another member told me that I just have to remove the gearbox from the bellhousing first. I can't see any way to get to the top gearbox bolt-any ideas? Anybody think I'd majorly (is that a word?) weaken things if next time I have the engine/trans out of the car that I just leave that bolt out to make it easier in the years ahead? I need this car to be easy to service if I'm gonna race it like I want to.

OK. The hammer, dremmel and cutoff saw continue to be my most valuable tools since I did this motor swap. Got busy and made an inspection/service/vetilation window in the bellhousing. Started with filthy fluid, starting this test with clean fluid after yesterday's work. Based on the advice of a T56 drag racer on LS1tech I decided to let the bellhousing breath a little. I removed the dust covers behind the starter and oil filter and cut (2) 2X3 holes in the bellhousing. Will it effect strength?-time will tell, nothing ventured nothing gained. The front hole lets me see the flywheel, pressure plate and clutch disc; the rear hole lets me see the throwout bearing and the hydraulic lines. First of all, no leaks. The pastic dust covers near the flywall side were filthy. I put just a pinch of the clutch dust in a bit of clean hydraulic fluid an perfectly reproduced the gunk I keep getting in my master cylinder reservoir. Look at the picture that shows one of those covers and the pieces of aluminum I cut out-the aluminum at the bottom of the bell was totally clean (you could eat off it). Found that weird. However, the throwout bearing sleeve (visible only when my daughter pressed the clutch pedal) was packed with clutch dust. There is a little recess at the base of the sleeve that may act as a funnel for the collection of the dust. If I wind up replacing my throwout bearing, I will modify it to remove the recess and let the dust blow elsewhere. Used compressed air and brake cleaner solvent to clean things as much as possible - my garage is a mess and I looked like a tar baby when I was finished. Swapped my 1" Tilton series 75 master for a 7/8" 74 series in order to gain the extra mounting bosses to attach a firewall brace to. That is next week's project. Took a lot of bleeding, using a combination of gravity, mighty vac and old-school bleeding to get a great feeling pedal. I did need to extend the adjustment rod out a long way. But it feels great. With the old series 75 1" master, the pedal stroke was very firm and at the bottom of the travel, the pedal was really easy to press. With the new master, the resistance is constant from top to bottom, just like my S10 pickup. Started car on jackstands and clutch fully engages with no rear wheel rotation. Next issue is about 3/8" of firewall flex, thought the smaller master bore might decrease that, but it didn't. I may eventually have to address the fact that the clevis hole in the clutch pedal has ovalized due to wear. Gonna due a little rear suspension work and try to test drive before the day is done. Then we'll see if I can keep clean fluid and stop having shift refusals.

Riscard, Actually, what I was thinking about was to just change from an LS2 bellhousing for an LT1 bellhousing. I would want to keep my gearbox and my engine. Will the LT1 bellhousing attach to the LS1 or 2 engine block? The goal would be to keep all else the same, but step back a generation and move my clutch hydraulics to outside the bellhousing to keep them clean. What do you think?

Stock shock is cheap enough to try. If you don't like it then upgrade. If you don't road race it probably doesn't matter in my opinion. Over the years I have done lots of upgrades on a car that spends most of its time driving the speed limit. Now finding out that the fastest drag cars on this forum are running totally stock suspensions. Go figure!

Thats the new plan. I'll post pictures when done. Waiting for rod-ends from Speedway. Switching from a series Tilton 75 MC to a series 74 MC tonight so that there is something to attach the brace to.

mark-who makes the quartermaster clutch (which company?). When you go out to your car, could you please inspect the fluid in the master reservoir and tell me how it looks? sunny-I been search'in like crazy and will continue. Found some interesting stuff in LS2GTO.com with more complaints, but no answers. I'll look more specifically in the sections you reference. What's your theory for the shift refusal you had the other day? I've seen you bang thru the gears-it ain't the operator!

Guys, thanks for the suggestions, keep them coming because I haven't found a solution yet. I've talked to a couple of the road racers in our forum/club. They all have black clutch hydraulic fluid. But, if the shift frequency is at the daily driver or even the road race tempo, the dirty fluid doesn't seem to affect performance. It seems to only affect performance when shifting at the full throttle "bam,bam,bam" frequency of drag race shifting. I've PM'd JustaFantaZ to see if he's having trouble, but haven't heard back. Waiting for feedback from Racer240z and ColtGT...both of whom I know wound up changing to auto trans. SUNNY - I found that rangeracceleration website; it is one of the two videos in my opening post. Unfortunately, I don't want to flush my hydraulics after every run - I want to hot lap every night I go to the track in order to get some practice in and get better. For now, I plan to flush before every trip and just quit and go home when I start getting shift refusals. Hope I don't break anything with a missed shift...I'm looking for a legit FIX for the problem. I can black the fluid in one trip around town. I am confident that Ranger has the problem identified, but I really want a legit fix, not just a service frequency that is basically to service the hydraulics after every time I drive the car. Haven't been able to find a phone number for Ranger. BTW-what color is your hydraulic fluid? zdlite - I found that one in my research, too, thanks. I didn't tell the whole truth about having a stock system: the master cylinder is a Tilton and I have a Speedwaymotors.com braided line to the slave cylinder; the slave, PP and clutch disc are stock 2006 GTO with 18k miles. I am changing to a 7/8 master tonight and flushing the system again. I will do the little test of inserting a 1/8" drill bit into the line to ensure that it complies with the "drill mod" instructions. Unfortunately, there are lots of posts on LS1tech where the drill mod didn't fix the problem. In fact, I can't find a single follow-up post where somebody claims to have solved the problem, just lots of complainers like me. Per johnc's recommendation, I called Tilton to talk to tech about their throwout bearings. The rep imagined from my description that GM must have left a "wiper seal" off of the configuration/design of the throwout bearing to knock the dust off the sleeve that the throwout bearing rides on. He suggested looking into the Tilton 400 and 800 series thowout bearings to see if they can be used. He says his bearings do incorporate a wiper seal. I went by the local GM dealer. They had no LS1 or LS2 thowout bearings assemblies in stock for me to examine in order to better understand the problem. They cost $262 and the closest one is 3 hours away. Autozone can order the bearing itself, but not the slave cylinder assembly. Called SPEC clutch. The rep on the phone was not aware of a problem with blackening of the hydraulic fluid. He asked around the office while I was on hold and nobody was aware. They sell the GM throwout bearing. Monster clutch uses a GM throwout bearing. They deny knowledge of the problem. Called McLeod's. Their rep was aware of the problem. They have a throwout bearing that is totally different from the stock one and incorporates a wiper seal. Unfortunately, it is compatible only with their clutch setups, so I'd need to make a big investment to buy one of their whole kits. Anybody with experience with their stuff, please chip into the conversation, cause I'm tempted to sink the cash. I'm gonna do the frequent flush plan for now and keep studying for a solution before I take the car completely off the road. In the meantime, I'm gonna be studying McLeods and Tilton's setups. McLeods is gonna be expensive; Tiltons is gonna require me to learn how to mock up a clutch system properly and cobble together individual parts to work (or not work) together (very intimidating for me). I'm also interested in learning if it is possible to adapt an LT1 T56 bellhousing to my GTO LS2 transmission and make it bolt up to the LS2 engine. That would move the slave outside the bellhousing and operate the throwout with a clutch fork. Anybody with LT1 to LS experience, please chip in! All this while holding down a fulltime job!

I spelled Draglites incorrectly.

Now we're getting somewhere. Suuny, I'd sure like to fix what I got- I love the gearbox. Im on my third master cylinder- it ain't the problem. Ticks uses the same mc I already have. They just put a rod end in it which won't fit the z pedals. I've tried 3/4, and one inch, going back a notch to 7/8 this weekend. After studying this and spending lots of time surfing the Ls sites I really think ranger acceleration has the correct diagnosis as a bad slave/ throw out design. I agree with the comment above about wipers on the seals and how shocks do the job adequately. all the aftermarket cutch companies sell GM throw outs or copies. Gonna look into johnc rec and see if tiltons throw out is somehow fundamentally different in design. The throw out system is the problem.

I think that is EXACTLY what is happening. Been burning google up looking for somebody with a fix, but I'm still looking. I got to find an association of Ls stick drag racers. Or switch to an auto trans, but where's the fun in that? Starting to research alternative manual trans options for the Ls motor but Im starting from a zero knowledge base. Any experiences welcome.

GT45, it is definitely clutch dust. I just heated up some of my new fluid on my stove and it stays brown, albeit darker brown when heated. The fluid turning black is clutch dust. If I park the car for a few days, the fluid clears up and the dust settles to the bottom of the master reservoir. Mine is turning black after only a short trip daily driving. If I bleed it out, my clutch operates normally. Give it a few blasts down the road to get some dust mixed in and the clutch goes crazy. I'm starting to consider a LT1 T56 swap to get the throwout bearing outside of the bell housing away from the dust. I'm glad you didn't have trouble with it, but I was hoping you had a solution. Sounds like you were a frequent bleeder - thats how I'm gonna handle it in the short term. So far, everybody I've talked to with a LS/T56 has trouble with black brake hydraulic fluid. I have a 100% stock 18K-mile GTO clutch system with a 1" Tilton master cylinder with a Speedway AN line and remote bleeder. Not slipping a bit, so long as I have clutch adjusted properly. SUNNY, I'm building a firewall to inner fender clutch master brace. You may be getting the first taste of what I am dealing with. I've been adjusting the heck out of my linkage. To get it to disengage when it starts hanging up I have to increase my clutch travel all the way up, which makes it really hard to control. Carrying a cut-off 7mm wrech everywhere I go. For that 3-4 gear shift, the pedal is back down low, so it is up, down, up half way, down. Impossible to be consistent-that's why I'm all shook up.