Kevin Shasteen

Great, another car for me to be jealous of Very nicely done. Your really beat him off the line; did he miss shift? I wouldnt think he miss shifted as his E.T. was typical of that model Vette. Is your engine a supercharged/trubocharged inliner or is it of the SBC V8 pedigree? I'm thinking if you do have the V8 and you did beat him off the launch; which you did, how is it he almost caught you at the end? Did you run out of transmission or have too much gearing? Great run & congratulations on your win. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

Good question, and welcome to the board. BTW, I like your turbo vent grafted into your hood. What to do all depends on your personal ability and how resourceful you are. Are you mechanically inclined and do you have the time to scour the salvage yards on a weekly basis. If you are patient and know what you are looking for you can probably do the SBC swap in under 3K: but this is really being the junk yard dog as you have to get there before anyone else does and you have to have your money ready if/when you see a part you are looking for. The 3k doesnt include upgrades to your brakes, suspension, steering nor differential; which with the added power will eventually need for safety factors. If you havent purchased the JTR manual yet then do so. I would advise you to purchase the manual prior to making any commitments on your car. If you dont have the manual yet then I will let you in on a secret (its not really a secret); if you use alluminum cyl.heads, alluminum intake manifold, an alluminum water pump and install your engine in the JTR set back manner you will have only gained about 120lbs to 150lbs. And the good news is this gained weight is actually behind the struts as opposed to the Inline 6 which is a big, beefy and bulky inliner which overhangs beyond the strut mounts. The problem w/incorporating all this alluminum onto your V8 is the cost is now no longer 3k and now has rising to the 5k figure as once the cast iron heads are removed you're gonna want to buy forged pistons and one upgrade leads to another, ect. If you just want to put a V8 in your Z and are not really interested in all that alluminum; your 3k V8 power will more than out weigh any additional weight your swap adds in the conversion process. Besides, you can always add the alluminum stuff at a later date as your budget allows. Get the manual; read it a few dozen times so you know what is needed prior to beginning your swap. You'll be glad you did. BTW: there's nothing wrong with the SBF except its not as well documented and there doesnt appear to be a kit currently in existance. Whereas the SBC is well documented and you can purchase the hard to find parts in kit form from JTR among other aftermarket sources; if you were so inlclined. Good luck and have fun; btw-did I mention you need to purchase the JTR manual? Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

With that MPH, Weight and E.T. combo you're producing @ 245 RWHP to 305 RWHP (not including any wheel spin along the way) and depending on which formula you use. The question needing answering now is, "What were your RPM's at the end of the 1/4mile & were they a little low, little high or J-U-S-T R-I-G-H-T?" Congrats on getting in the low 13's NOW GIMME MORE, GIMME MORE, GOTTO GO FASTER so GIMME MORE NOW!! Kevin, (Yea,Still a 16-17sec.1/4er mile Inliner)

Wow, a Stock/Factory V8z? Just think of the possibilities; kind of makes you stop & go Hmm Imagine the factory V8z; Just think about all the mfg's that lost their American market due to the Z, MGB-Fiat-ect, and then multiply that by the V8z factor. I think there would've been more of an effect on our own mfg's as well as the Euro's exotic mfg's...oh well; Hindsight is 20/20...Woulda, Shoulda, Cooda but didnt-so the hobbiest did! Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

I know I've seen "Rod's" w/powder'd wheels; however, as to how to get there [liquid paint remover -vs- sandblasting] both have their up's & downs. I've read where a liquid paint remover is not the choice of the two as the paint remover gets stuck in hidden areas & is impossible to remove. Once you've repainted the hidden liquid paint remover may/can diminish your newly powdered wheels. I'ld definately get as many options from any/all experts as you can prior to doing it. Sandblasting seems to be the way to go-yet; you have to make sure & get rid of any/all media prior to repainting (well duh-I know you know this) but in some applications (such as the wheel) its not always that easy..., definately best left to the experts w/larger ovens to bake the powder on. I have an Eastwood Powdercoat System & have thought about the wheels also, yet I dont have an oven large enough to do wheels. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

Aux, Truely sorry to hear about that: I DETEST INCONSIDERATE PEOPLE, especially when it comes to door dings. Not to be Anal Retentive...But I'm gonna be anal retentive. When I was very young my dad, & yes he could be anal retentive at times, tought me to always write the tag's down on a piece of paper prior to walking into any store. This way, if/when your return you find a door ding-you can report it to the police & maybe get some justice. In this day/age where most people are in too big of a hurry to care about your car...I too always park as far away from the main stream as I can. I dont mind walking if it means a door ding free scenario upon my return. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

Came across this site: http://www.Zhome.com/rnt/3.1HanveyProject.htm This guy kind of walks you thru the build & explains the pit falls he crossed in his endeavor of building his 3.1 stroker. He also gives sources along the way for addt'l info & to whom he obtained guidance from till the product was completed (yea-right/we all know they're never completed). Anyway; anyone interested in the build should give it a read. Thought it might be interesting to a few. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

Michael, What can I say? Reading your post I found myself chuckling (because I-er-uh "WE" have all been there) and at other times truely "Feeling Your Pain" We have all been there & some of us are going thru what you're going thru at this very minute. I only suggest to people to read & educate themselves because I always prefer to learn from someone else's mistakes...this brings up my next point. You may not like this: BUT IN YOUR SEARCH FOR 'HP' YOU WILL MAKE MISTAKES. It doesnt mean your any less of a shade tree knuckle bustin rod building grease monkey than the rest of us...it just means you're human. Experience doesnt come from ala(sp?) or divine intervention..it comes from hands on attempts at chasing, grasping at a particular goal...and sometimes-you actually achieve and exceed your goal. But we all make mistakes---its the mistakes that an individual makes that allows that person "To Be Knowledgeable" on any given issue. Make a decision; just be sure its an educated decision...but make that decison nontheless & then dont second guess yourself-go w/it & HAVE FUN! If you try to think about too much you're gonn drive yourself crazy. What I've done lately...in preparedness for my next project (maybe never) which is hopefully gonna be my Z; I've read as much as I can on what makes an engine tick & then I've catorgorized certain levels of performace, like so: 1) Mild Street Car 2) Moderate Street/Mild Strip Car 3) Heavy Street/Moderate Strip Car 4) Non-Streetable/Heavy Strip Car All performance articles, I read, I will make a mental note of where that engine build up/car's performance lands & by realizing that, I can further classify the parts they used in building that engine or car that performed the way it did. If I were you I would concentrate on: 1) Displacement: What would you like your final Displacement on your Big Block to be? If you know the displacement but are'nt sure of the bore or stroke req. to get there then play w/these formulas: a) Stroke = Displacement/(.7854 x Bore^2 x # of cyl's) Bore = Displacement^.5/(.7854 x Stroke x # of cyl's 2) Compression: Have you chosen a Static Compression (remember this is a street car-that may be raced or vic-versa): use this mulit-formula for playing around w/static compression: [you need to know the displacement per cylinder & then convert that displacement for once cylinder to cc's, this will also allow you to home in on what cylinder head you may/may not need: a) Displ.Per Cyl= Total Displacement/#of cyl's cc's Disp.of one cyl = [a] x 16.387 c) Comb.Chamber Req'd = cc's Disp.of one cyl/Requred Static Comp-1 *NOTE: the answer to this will tell us what our final Combustion Chamber cc's will need to be to run on whatever Static Compression you're requiring ...,Now lets put the above to action: Lets say you intend on using the 454 in its factory displacment & want 9.5:1 Static Compression-using the above three steps we'll work it like this: a) 454/8 =56.75 This rep's disp.for one cyl. 56.75 x 16.387 = 929.96cc's This rep's once cyl.displ in cc's c) 929.96cc's/9.5-1 or 929.96cc/8.5 = 109.40cc's So what we just learned is: if you want to run a 454 w/9.5 Static Comp. you're gonna need a Comb.Chamber of 109.40cc's (remember-this number also reflects your piston's crevis cc's, dish/dome cc's which will add/take away from the cyl.head's actual comb.chamber cc's. So when you're looking into pistons & cylinder heads: be sure & work the dish/dome cc's w/the cc's of the cylinder head whose sum should match your equation: for our example we would want the sum to match 109.40cc's...simply work the math. The next step in determing what cyl.head are required will be the airflow characteristics in relationship to the cam you're choosing. Read the airflow numbers of the cyl.head at .100" increments up to .600" valve lift: then choose a cam whose lift reflects the max airflow you want at that lift. (keep this in mind & make note of it on paper)....remember-we're only building a paper engine at this point...no money required. Now-the hard part: you gotta either learn how to determine Dynamic Compression-or you're gonna just have to take someone's word for it. You need to find a cam & determine at what point of piston travel in the cyl. the Intake Valve Closes. At this point-you will use the Compression Formula to determine your dynamic comp. The only difference is you wont be using the entire displacement of one cylinder, instead, you'll be using the remaining volume of that cylinder after the Intake Valve has closed: such as..., Final Comb.Chamb.Req'd = Cyl.Vol.Remaining after IVC + Cyl.Head's Comb.Chamber/Cyl.Vol.Remaining after IVC ...this will tell you if your engine will be able to run on pump gas or req. racing gas. This last point is why I liked Ed Staffel's book; particularly PAGE 110 (the engine graph for a .030 454) and PAGE 112 which are its instructions on determining Dynamic Comp, Pump Gas or Race Gas. Remember tho-when using the graph...only the stroke, con.rod & Piston Comp.Height matter as the bore doesnt come into play till later. The graph will only tell you piston location not volume of the cyl. You'll determine volume of the cylinder once you've chosen a displacement for your engine...read the suggestions in his book & read his chapter on cyl.heads. IMO, he did an excellant job of discussing Big Block Cyl.Heads. After all that; you basically need to choose a cam whose LDA, Duration will match your requirements of 1) Mild Street 2) Moderate Street/Mild Strip 3) Heavy Street/Moderate Strip or 4) Dedicated Strip Car....the intake manifold & carb choices will be relatively easy as the guess work has basically been take out of the equation for you & I. Determine these issues first & foremost & the actual building of the steering, suspension & driveline can come later. The most important thing to remember: Always have fun-make an educated decision & dont second guess yourself....becaus we all make mistakes. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

Funny you should ask....I have spent the last couple days, off and on, scanning thru my Mopar Perf.Books. Your S.O.S. 318 call for help will not go unanswered...as you can see by the few who have already offered assistance. I would suggest that you go check out your local book stores 1) Barnes & Nobles 2) Hastings and scour thru their automotive sections. Look for two specific books particularly: 1) "High Performance Chrysler Engines" which is [the best of Hot Rod Magazine: vol#12] & published by CarTech. This book discusses half/half big blocks & small blocks. In it you'll find phase 1-phase5 build up's of the Small Block Mopar. Its a grey-ish paper book w/a black binder. 2) "How to Build Dodge/Plymouth Performance" by Larry Schreib & Larry Atherton, published by SADesign w/a 1991 copywrite....this book has boo-coo's of info also but yields more to the "Do-it Yourselfer". If you find a good bookstore that keeps their automotive section fully stocked-you dont have to buy the book; simply go in there w/a notebook & pen/pencil & jot down your notes/part #'s: AKA-No Money Out of Your Pocket! Woo-Hoo/my kind of book. Anyway-dont give up on that 318-there's still at least another few hundred thousand miles left in her yet. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

Cant really argue w/Grumpy...appears he really knows his stuff. I just wanted to throw out a few curves to watch out for. In your quest for the 500hp range dont get to caught up in high HP numbers for a street engine...especially from a Big-Block. If, as you say, this isnt really going to be a car/engine for the strip...then torque is what you want; and w/a BBC it shouldnt be to hard to obtain at lower RPM's. If/when anyone go's looking for big HP #'s your gonna be dancing w/the "Limited Properties" of Pump Gas...even w/a BBC. W/all the torque of a BBC (like Grumpy said) you're gonna have more than enough of a problem just getting traction: this is where gearing/tire size will really come in to play. For such a light car your 3.545 rear gearing is gonna be more gearing than you'll be able to handle w/a massively torquey BBC... Eh, bust the factory rear & then go the way Scottie did w/an altered Vette rear w/the gearing of your choice. If you wish to do more research on your own; I'ld suggest buying the book; "How to Build Max Perf.Chevy Rat Motors" by Ed Staffel & published by SADesigns; 1996 Copywrite. Ed's book is very informative & gives the readers much to think about...in ref to modern rat motors as well as the earlier rat's. One last point; in your search for that 500hp BBC...DONT FORGET ABOUT "DYNAMIC COMP.RATIO's!!!" If you're gonna be running on Pump Gas then you'll need to know your limitations & how those limitations are determined. Dont get stuck on "Flat Tappet Cams. In this day & age-especially for your "Low Intesity "But I want 500hp-Now" goals you'ld be much better off going w/a Mechanical or Hydraulic Roller Cam. W/all the technical break thru's of the 90's..you should use that tech to your advantage. If you're gonna go w/AFR's (excellant choice I might add) then why would you not want to also go w/Roller Cam/Lifters to compliment your cyl.head's & intake...something to think about anyway. If nothing else the roller cam/lifters would free up some hp & get you closer to your mark that much easier. Ok, one last point..after my previous last point. Buy yourself a few of those "Auto Math" books & learn how to compute your "g's" and learn how to work the math backwards: I'ld enjoyed & still read two auto math books specifically: 1) "Auto Math Handbook" by John Lawler; published by HPBOoks w/a 1992 Copywrite 2) "Automotive Math Handbook" by Forbes Aird; published by MBI w/a 2000 copwrite. Most people will have an engine they know has this much torque/hp because its been dyno'd; then they do the math from the flywheel, thru the trans, coupled w/the driveshaft torque, multiplied by the diff.gearing to the drive wheels & then to the rolling radius of the wheel/tire. My point is this-if your learn how to work the math backwards then you can determine what drive wheel torque is needed by the [g's] & the weight of your car, (not withstanding friction-another debate too long for this thread)..., and work it backwards thru the driveline back to the flywheel; Voila! You now have the power requirements needed for your engine to do whatever you're wanting it to do for whatever purpose it is intended. BTW-a factory stock Vette pulls anywhere from .72% to a .75% of a [g] from a standing stop & clicks off a high 13 to a low/mid 14 second ET; very respectable for the street..., learn the math & many of your gearing/tire size problems will aid in your engine power decisions. Good Luck & have fun. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

Oh great(?), another happy ending V8Z story for me to be jealous of! (Just Kidding-Woo Hoo!!! Way to go). My car is still an inliner and at least once every other month or so some kid (early 20's or late teens) will approach me at the gas station while I'm filling up & ask me what kind of car I'm driving (78 2+2)..they always ask if its some kind've British or German car...too funny. Oh well, I'm only an Inliner for now but I'm-a-gonna be a V8 Someday. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

Go to the "EFI/Fuel" forum on this board & look 4 or 5 topics down...you should find a thread about "FBody Fuel Tank" or something like that. Anyway, Jerimio is the one who made the swap. You can read that thread & if you have any questions email him. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

Yea JohnC, I came across that book last night while searching the web. In my search for a common approach to a tire (prior to actully paying for one) I'm not looking for absolutes; only attempting to try & figure a way to know what to look for; after all, one can theorize all day long-but eventually you have to apply your knowledge (Think we call this R&D..or at the track we call it Test & Tune). I also found out that traction/friction or the loss of it is actually "Rocket Science" (oh man-where's my slide ruler); however, once an individual can acknowledge the variables & assign a numerical substanct to that variable...then I'm confidant one can get pretty close, in theory, to the actual requirement. John, from reading last night on the web, the book reviews on "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics" illuded to the PaceJKA's Mystery Formula, does this book give the novice/enthusiast something they can use-or would I actually have to be a Rocket Scientist to understand their explanation. BTW; how much does the book run for; the website I found advertising the book was for Seminars or Schools...so I had no idea what the book was selling for. How in detail does the book get in regards to tire traction/friction forces? Thanks for all inputs from everyone-good info all the way round. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

Thanks Griemann, I will check that out. For anyone else reading...I've been searching the net for answers & feel (feeling is good-politically correct now-a-days) that I can clearify my question. Griemann got me close; I feel my question is this: "What determines the Breakout Force of a tire, and how is it determined when that breakout force turns maximizes the slip ratio? I'm gonna go read Griemanns topic; in the meantime, any other suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Griemann & if my brain hurts too much from reading your suggested topic...I promise not to ask any more questions about traction & friction Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

someone delete this; its repeating me again/or I clicked on the wrong icon.

I hate it when it does this...its mocking me...someone delete this thing.

Well, I appreciate your responses; I still believe the rocket scientists out there have some form of formula for determing traction required in relation to power applied, specifically-regarding the Sectional Width of the Tire...and to further that formula w/in relation to an auto at the dragstrip...I may be in denial; but I'm sure its out there. Looks like I've got my work cut out for me. Hopefully others can chime in....I believe, I believe-I really believe (am I crazy or what) that a physics formula does exists. Its just a matter of finding it or running into the right person. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

Doh, Greiman beat me to the punch-he answered before I could reply to SleeperZ.

Ok, I believe we're heading in the correct direction here. I do know that tires, especially performance tires, have a coefficient of 'g' rating applied.., how is that 'g' rating determined, is it based on SleeperZ's comment: .., If so, then what I'm understanding is: The frictional force (torque overcoming inertia?) is equal to the weight (weight of the car?) divided by the square inch of the tire (square inch of the tire's foot print where it contacts the surface of the ground?) multiplied by the frictional coefficient of that tire? In frictional coefficient of the tire are you refer'g to the 'g' rating of that particular tire? Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

Thanks for your response. However, My question wasnt intended to be directed towards low profile tires & their aspect ratios. My question was meant more towards the section width of the tire in general...towards acceleration in general. If we would assume (look out-here comes my assumption) that the few formula I've come across only refer to the rolling radius (rolling raidius includes the aspect ratio) but doesnt even make reference to the section width in regards to traction & acceleration on a drag strip; then, if section width isnt mentioned-therefore isnt important, why arent we all putting bicycle tires on the rears of our cars...obviously the width of a tire does make a difference on acceleration; but what is the formula for determining what that section width should be for a given particular set up? My inquiring mind wants to know(?). Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

I've been reading for sometime now about g-forces in respect to a car's ability to accelerate from a standing start. I've come upon a few formula (or is that formula[e]) & they talk about the flow of torque from the flywheel, thru the trans, to the driveline, thru the differential & to the ground via wheel thrust...I understand all that; I've worked those formula (or formulae?) till I grasped the idea. My question is this, none of those articles explain or suggest what effects the "Width" of the wheel/tire has on traction, or the lack therof. They all talk about wheel thrust and only require 1/2 the distance of the wheel/tire but still say nothing about the width of that wheel/tire. So, I guess I'm asking, "At what point is traction gained or lost in relation to the width of the tire/wheel & how is that determined?" Any response is appreciated: you can keep it as simple as you like or get as complicated as you like...I would just like some direction as to how width plays a part in traction & how it is determined. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

Definately informative. One article I found that I liked...sorry, yes it is an article-not a website; I have to admit I'm not as web saavy as Grumpy. Anyway, the article was in the book, Auto Math Handbook, by John Lawler published by HPBooks. In ch#10 he explains how those #'s are generated....I found it as equally informative and includes driveshaft torque, which you'll only know if your engine has been dyno'd, as it's the engine hp/torque at any given rpm one will use to determine the driveshaft torque. 1) RPM after Shift = (Ratio Shift Into/Ratio Shifting out of) x Rpm Before the Shift 2) Driveshaft Toque = Flywheel Toque x Trans.Ratio Oh Yea, very cool stuff. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

That poor car..., everywhere it goes it gets made fun of by the other cars; & isnt allowed to play in any car games; truely sad. Kevin, (Yea,Still a non-gaudy Inliner)

Dragging gas station pump filler hose away w/you? ..., is that the Hotrodder's version of the Geek trick when he walks out of a restaurant's bathroom w/toilet paper stuck to the bottom of his shoes? This is one area I'll try to learn from others & attempt for the rest of my life not to personally repeat. Remember, just the fact that you are confortable admitting it means you're on the road to recovery...admitting your fault is the first step to recovery! Thanks Jeromio for the fuel tank mod; I'll put that in my little black V8 book under "Things to Do" if/when I can make my swap; I also agree about the spare tire being useless...especially if one has made the larger wheels/tires modification. Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)

I'm jealous...Hey, I'll give you a $1 for it & (and this is a big "AND") I'll even be your best friend! Seriously, congrats on your purchase & let the games begin! Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner)