Front Big Brake Kit (Stage 4)from Silver Mine Motors

[blu78Zcar]

I bought the Front Big Brake Kit (Stage 4)from Silver Mine Motors, i put the kit on my 1978 Datsun 280Z. It came with (2) 4 piston calipers (43mm pistons) (2) Vented, slotted, and drilled CNC rotors with zinc plaiting to prevent rusting (2)DOT approved custom fabricated steel braided brake lines (2)Custom fabricated T6061 aluminum spacers (2) Ceramic brake pads. The kit was complete no need to buy anything else to install. Can usse just sockets and a few wrenchs to install. It took me about three to install. Very easy install. I also installed the larger master cylinder 15/16 for more fluid flow. The first test run gave me a huge smile. The brakes where a night and day difference. The old solid disc brakes could not ever give you this braking performance. The new disc's were vented drilled and slotted. The brakes had so much pedal and it was like i was stopping the earth from rotating. I am very pleased with this kit, it also had bigger pistons than the arizona z car brake kit and the price was easier on the wallet. The calipers were bigger than Willwoods also. I would do this this brake kit to any z car. The people at Silver Mine Motors put together a great brake kit.

Pics are below of the brakes.

 

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/ryderfuzz/DSCF3550.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/ryderfuzz/DSCF3552.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/ryderfuzz/DSCF3554.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/ryderfuzz/DSCF3555.jpg

[Arif]

Did you have the stock brakes before the upgrade? I've got the old toyota 4x4 upgrade with vented rotors and wonder if those would make a noticeable difference.

[cockerstar]

Arif,

 

The Silver Mine stage 4 kit is the vented 4x4 upgrade

[Savage42]

Just to clarify that "selling points" of this setup, you can't compare this package with a Wilwood setup. First, the piston size has very little to do with anything and "bigger is better" is not always the case. You have to factor in brake bias, master cylinder sizing, etc. Secondly, an aluminum caliper is far superior to a cast iron caliper in overall performance, not only in cooling faster, but unsprung weight. Lastly, getting a rotor full of holes and slots is NOT the best option. It reduces surface area. In most cases, a vented rotor with just some slots is the ideal setup and you typically get stress cracks at the holes when drilled, which is not a good thing. Most of the aftermarket brake guys are open to the fact that they only put a bunch of holes in the rotors because people pay to have them "look cool" and is not an enhancement. I'm not saying that this upgrade isn't worth doing, but don't go off the marketing hype on a web page.

 

Now, most people won't drive their cars to the limit on a road course or any other time, so most of this info may be irrelevant unless looking for the ultimate in maximum performance levels.

 

Disclaimer: opinions, thoughts and experience based on the size of your pocketbook may vary.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Savage42

[Arif]

I thought those calipers were off a different car. So then what is the difference between the stage 3 and 4?

 

Just based off observation from my last Coffee and Rides there were several Ferraris and other exotics with drilled rotors including the new 458 which had stock brakes. So the question is if it's a bad idea to run drilled rotors then why are the exotics still running them? FYI- I've read but can't confirm that drilled rotors with tapered holes prevent the stress cracks you mentioned.

[Savage42]

You have to realize that 99% of cars like Ferrari, Lambo, etc. will never be pushed to their limits, especially when it comes to braking! Also, the 458 Italia has carbon-ceramic rotors, so the stress crack issue may not be an issue, but they also cost nearly 10 times as much. Interestingly enough, the Ferrari 430 Challenge (race) car runs rotors with just slots and no holes. I'd bet that only the small holes they run on carbon brakes will work, as I don't see slots carved into that material as a good idea.

 

The purpose of slots or holes is to allow gases that build up between the pad & rotor to escape. That being said, a solid rotor with slots does that job and won't stress crack. Of course, they don't look as cool, but when researching what kind of brakes to put on my V8 Z, I talked to the guys at StopTech, Wilwood, etc and got the same opinion. Since my car will see track activity, they recommended the GT slotted rotors with directional vanes. (as seen below) Almost every race car that I've seen with holes has stress cracks radiating from them and is a situation for a possible failure under extreme conditions.

[darom]

If I were to go with these calipers, what year/car model do I need to give to the parts sales man to get replacement pads? Or if I were to rebuild these calipers (stage 3 or 4), which kit do I need to get? Can anyone identify the car make these parts come from?

 

Thanks!

[cockerstar]

Arif,

 

"Stage 3" is the Toyota 4x4 calipers with the solid rotor, and "Stage 4" is the Toyota 4x4 calipers with vented rotors.

The calipers themselves are off of different years of the Toyota trucks. A quick search in the FAQ will bring up the differences and p/n specifics.

 

 

Darom,

 

Take a look at the brake options thread in the FAQ section for your answers. It's all spelled out there.

[260DET]

Those Toyota lump of iron calipers belong on a truck not a sports car, a starter upgrade for somone on a budget and that's about it.

[Arif]

The reason why they threw me off was my 4x4 calipers don't have the ridges on the face like those so I thought they were from a different car. But like cockerstar said they are off of different year Toyotas.

[Mikelly]

I wanted to touch base on something here...

 

My Porsche 911 Turbo has cross drilled rotors... It's considered an exotic, of sorts... OEM you can't buy slotted rotors for this car unless you go to an aftermarket race parts source and have them made. The 2001-2005 cars don't have the option of running the GT2/GT3 parts without converting to those suspension pieces due to rotor hat offset differences...

 

So wha'ts all this mean?

Everyone I know who ones one of these cars HATES the cross drilled rotors because the holes clog with pad material and end up causing pulsing in the pedal and shudder in the steering wheel during hard driving or on track at DEs. Pad selection is limited to less aggressive pads that don't compound the issue.

 

Why SOME manufacturers are using cross drilled rotors is due to their perception of the buyer. Also, many of these "cars and coffee" posers will never put the miles on their show queens to have these issues crop up. However, anyone who wants to drive their car hard and doesn't want to deal with the issues above, or the associated cracks that DO happan ends up going to someone like Coleman Racing, RSS or upgrading to a full Brembo race kit to get away from the dreaded drilled rotors...4.5 years dealing with Porsches now, and this issue still remains a hot topic on those community boards.

 

Now, Carbon Ceramic rotor/pad combos are another issue... I priced them for my Turbo and found that the ROTOR and Pad combo ALONE was the better part of $16K!

 

http://www.suncoastparts.com/product/CERAMICS.html?Category_Code=gt2PCCBs

 

And that whole myth of them lasting longer than others is just that, at least when used on track... They don't fade, and they weigh so much less than traditional two piece rotors. However, everyone I know tracking a car that came equipped with Ceramics swaps them out for steel. Race teams with endless budgets run ceramics... Nobody I'm aware of at the club level or DE level of racing/performance driving runs them... They simply can't afford to...

 

On the street, for cars and coffee, or just being a swinging dik with a fatt wallet, yea, they'll last 300K miles. Take them to the track and watch them degrade rapidly in less than 10 track days, just like any other performance rotor.

 

 

Mike

Edited September 2, 2011 by Mikelly

[Savage42]

Mike,

 

I have a few friends that run the HPDE days here at Sebring, Road Atlanta, etc in their Porsches and say the exact same thing. I heard that guys who run REALLY hard have to change brakes at 5-6 track days! Yikes!!

 

Here is a Porsche that had some of the issues you stated. A rotor failure is a scary thing to even think about.

 

 

 

There were 2 Corvette ZR1s and a Ferrari California running there on the Carbon brakes, which is just crazy! From what I heard, the Ferrari rotors are $6k each, so right in line with what you said. The pair of Nissan GTRs were running cast iron rotors, so they are being smart about it.

 

Here is a picture of a stupid set of drilled rotors on a car running at Sebring!

 

 

 

As to this very issue, I am offering to treat (Thermal Cycle) a set of rotors and pads for you at No Charge! We just started a new division to do automotive performance and racing parts at: www.thermalmetals.com which is licensed partner of www.thermaltechnologyservices.com here in Florida. We now have facilities in Michigan, Canada, Poland, Germany, Australia and so on. The owner of the company & inventor will guarantee (in writing) that you will see a minimum of 2.5 times the life of the rotor. As a result in treating both the rotor and pad, you should expect to see twice the life of the pad, along with a reduction in brake fade, dust, squeal and stopping distances. We treated a set of brakes on a Porsche powered CanAm car that was run in a 24 hour race that would have to swap out standard rotors after 10 hours....with treated rotors, they went the whole 24 hours!

 

We aren't going to do any advertising, just treat some sets for hardcore track day guys and racers, then let the results speak for themselves. Locally, we are doing a couple Porsches, a Panoz GT racer and a few other high end sports cars. We have also seen an improvement in treating the carbon rotors, but demand for that will be minimal. Once we get enough verified results over the next couple months from guys running them, we are looking at selling the slotted, treated rotors for Porsches and other performance vehicles close to the same price that the sell them for now from those other guys. This will be good for everyone who actually runs their sports cars on the track, not so much those guys who never even get the brakes hot on their Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

[1 tuff z]

Pm sent!

[EvilC]

Savage is right. EVERY car I have looked at with drilled rotors have stress cracks on them. Some with less than 2-3 track days. I have them and will have to touch base with Savage on the rotors he went with....but I have about 14 track events on them and they were cut down twice. I think I got my money out of them. I am running a more aggresive pad so the life of the rotors are expected to be some what short.

 

I would love to find nice aggresive pads that don't DUST the wheels to hell!

[zjohnson1]

This is an interesting read about the debate between blank/drilled/slotted rotors for those curious. http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2382409

[Savage42]

Well, take it for what it's worth. It's a 3 year old thread and it looks like the guy who started it was banned from their list. I will be posting more "real world" results as we get more stuff treated and run on the track.

[Savage42]

Savage is right. EVERY car I have looked at with drilled rotors have stress cracks on them. Some with less than 2-3 track days. I have them and will have to touch base with Savage on the rotors he went with....but I have about 14 track events on them and they were cut down twice. I think I got my money out of them. I am running a more aggresive pad so the life of the rotors are expected to be some what short.

 

I would love to find nice aggresive pads that don't DUST the wheels to hell!

 

Well, lets get a set of rotors and pads treated so you can personally see the increase in rotor life and decrease in brake dust. If treated brake components on trash trucks has resulted in shorter braking distances, reduction in squeal & brake dust AND having them last at least 3 times longer when stopping 10,000-12,000 pounds (loaded), it may help a little on our cars.

 

Aggressive no longer means they have to wear out more quickly.

[Savage42]

Hey guys! Just wanted to follow up after a track day test we did at Sebring this last weekend. We treated the rotors and pads on a Porsche GT3 and installed them the day before the event. Sebring is one of the hardest tracks on brakes in the country AND most of you may know that Porsches are known for their amazing brakes, which means they tend to be very hard on them, as well.

 

It was a 90 degree day at the track, low humidity (thank God) and there were 160 cars entered at this Porsche Club event. The owner of this GT3 is a certified instructor and he ran 6 sessions with a couple of them back-to-back, which is 3 hours of abuse at Sebring. He commented on how he never had any fade, actually had more brakes than tire and we even had other drivers come over and ask if he had just put the pads and rotors on, as they looked new.

 

Typically, micro stress fractures will appear at the end of the first track day on Porsche rotors. As you will see, there isn't even a hint of a single one, no brake dust and brakes do indeed look new. With the Porsche guys who run track days all the time, they actually end up tossing the brake rotors once the stress cracks go from hole to hole and/or the cracks hit the outer edge before they actually wear it out. The last pic is of brakes on a 2011 Porsche GT3RS that I rode in that the owner bought on New Years Day this year. Glad to see some actually use their cars for what they were built for. He will be getting treated brake parts this next time around.

 

We are going to treat a set on a new Corvette Z06 this week for a 2 day track event at Sebring in 2 weeks, as well as a LS1 powered ex-Penske Panoz race car. Check it out.

[johnc]

All brake rotors will develop cracking when used on a race track. Brake rotors are a consumable item the same as brake pads when used for racing. Get used to it. This cross drilled vs. non-cross drilled rotor argument is silly.

 

There is also another big reason that people run the SW12 or SW13 iron calipers on their race car - rules. Very few vintage racing organizations allow modern aluminum monoblock calipers. You're stuck with cast iron and some groups are even more anal and require the FIA Group 4 approved Nissan cast iron calipers which are over $1,000 if you can find a pair.

[z-ya]

All brake rotors will develop cracking when used on a race track. Brake rotors are a consumable item the same as brake pads when used for racing. Get used to it. This cross drilled vs. non-cross drilled rotor argument is silly.

 

There is also another big reason that people run the SW12 or SW13 iron calipers on their race car - rules. Very few vintage racing organizations allow modern aluminum monoblock calipers. You're stuck with cast iron and some groups are even more anal and require the FIA Group 4 approved Nissan cast iron calipers which are over $1,000 if you can find a pair.

 

Exactly. We run the SW13 calipers on the vintage racer along with the stock drums because we have to. But to be honest, a 240Z properly setup for the track doesn't need crazy brakes, especially running in groups where huge tires and big flares are not allowed. Make it fast in the turns, and keep it light, and you'll find that getting a whole season out of a set of pads is not that difficult. We have been running the same non drilled/non slotted 300ZX vented rotors for at least three years now, and we have just had to resurface them a few times.

 

Hey guys! Just wanted to follow up after a track day test we did at Sebring this last weekend. We treated the rotors and pads on a Porsche GT3 and installed them the day before the event. Sebring is one of the hardest tracks on brakes in the country AND most of you may know that Porsches are known for their amazing brakes, which means they tend to be very hard on them, as well.

 

What are you trying to say here, that Porsche drivers are especially hard on their brakes? I think a lot of drivers are much harder on their brakes than they need to be. A little more skill in the turns can make a huge difference in the life span of rotors and pads.

 

Pete