Owen C. Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 So I guess ill be pushing the z project back even farther. I've had it sitting around for 13 years already so what's another 13, right? If anyone knows of any welding shops in need of a fab / welder in Arizona please pm me. I have 6 years experience doing custom doors, gates and fencing aswell as some custom artwork. I also have about a year in general fab work for a shop in the valley. I am familiar with mig, spool gun, duel shield mig and was learning tig...if that counts for anything. I can run a sheer, iron worker, roller, press break and hand plasma torch, drill press....ect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I hate to say this but i think the key to making money as a tradesman is being able to go where the work is at.Problem is that you have no home life living in motel rooms-or working overseas.Keep your mind open to trying something different but still involved in welding-maybe frame fabrication for a racing team?Maybe repair on mining equipment?I wish you luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter72 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Hey just sent you a PM. There are welding jobs on Phoenix Craigslist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen C. Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 I've seen the ones on cl and have sent my resume to a couple. Im looking in other states where I have friends and family the only thing is I don't really have the funds to pick up and move down the street let alone out of state. Im open to almost anything hands on as long as the work is constant and it pays the bills and feeds my family. Hell, id sweep floors in a machine shop if it got my foot in the door and could learn the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I hate to say this but i think the key to making money as a tradesman is being able to go where the work is at.Problem is that you have no home life living in motel rooms-or working overseas.Keep your mind open to trying something different but still involved in welding-maybe frame fabrication for a racing team?Maybe repair on mining equipment?I wish you luck. Agree with Randy... There is an alternative for working for other people: Work for yourself. Do you know how much those gates you make sell for? What the materials cost? A Bobcat in the back of a clapped out truck, and the ability to go repair someone's gate or go to their place and make what they want can pay pretty well. No it's not secure, you are not an employee, there is stress involved. But the first big project pays off, and you sit there looking at your bank account going "I could live off this for three months if I work it right!" and you start to realize working for yourself doing something you're good at, and that people need to have done can be handsomely rewarding. You may not get rich, but likely you will make far more than you ever did as an employee and the tax advantages start to add up little by little. You can go to places overseas as a welder, get shot at, and make $80K for 4 months work rotation. But that's not for everybody! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 You can go to places overseas as a welder, get shot at, and make $80K for 4 months work rotation. But that's not for everybody! I wouldn't mind that job if I could get it with just a 3 month tech school course to pick up the cert that says i'm a legit trained welder Being shot at ain't the problem, it's being hit! So long as I can work behind a solid enough piece of landscape, I'm deaf enough not to hear and thus not to mind the Ka-Ziipppp! of bullets slinging past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zip Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Colorado has quite a few welding jobs: http://denver.craigslist.org/search/jjj?query=welding&srchType=A What I found a bit disappointing, however was some of these which required 'skilled labor' were only willing to pay $10/hour. You can get nearly that flipping burgers. That $10/hour equates to $1,600 month and if you factor in a car, insurance, room, food, and gas ... it's not even close to a living wage. When I've paid fabricators to do work for me, I've had no problem giving them $25 to $35 / hour and most people would agree that's very cheap. One person I know, who has a home based welding shop, is 100% booked and he has a flat rate of $35/hour. Running your own business isn't easy. Learn the business first. One idea would be to comb craigslist, get a 1/2 decent, but paying job. take on some extra projects on the side and once you gain a client-base, consider going into business for yourself. you may even consider an arrangement with you boss where you could get some sort of profit sharing if you bring in business. if a shop owner isn't willing to have that sort of arrangement, then they're short sighted and will likely lose their best talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 "What I found a bit disappointing, however was some of these which required 'skilled labor' were only willing to pay $10/hour. You can get nearly that flipping burgers. That $10/hour equates to $1,600 month and if you factor in a car, insurance, room, food, and gas ... it's not even close to a living wage." Hence my suggestion that he work for himself. When you are paying fabrication companies 30$ an hour for work (closer to 50-65 for general structural work here in SoCal) the EMPLOYEES of the company usually get 1/3 of that rate at most. If they are independents, they get that full amount, minus expenses. It doesn't take long as a skilled tradesman to realize you aren't going to make a lot of money working for entry-level outfits forever. To make any appreciable money, you need to strike out on your own. It's always easiest to make a job when you already have one, but if you get into a situation where you're bringing in work to the company...you may as well do it yourself. There are risks to it, but the reward upside is phenomenal. And, to paraphrase Conan the Barbarian: "The greatest satisfaction is to drive your former employers before you, crush them, and hear the wailing lamentations of their women!" Been there, done that! I agree with Conan! And beware what you classify as a 'living wage'---that is what they make room-mates and second jobs for! Been there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Before I opened my shop I did a lot of research into building a mobile automotive fab truck. Most of the "tuner" shops here in SoCal can't weld. They are basically bolt-on bling bling shops. After some effort I did determine that there was a market for someone with a truck equipped to do basic fab work to gross about $145K a year. The margin for that was about 10% the first year and got better as the years went on. Then I called a couple collection agencies to get an idea of the payment profiles of that "tuner" industry here in SoCal. That ended the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen C. Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 I've thought about starting my own shop but the way things are going right now.with the economy it doesn't look promising. I more or less ran the gate shop the last three years I worked there and planned on taking it over 100% when the owner retired. The cost of materials, gas and the loss of the customer base sealed the fate of that plan. Its the same reason I got cut from this last job. I was the newest hire but I was also one of the highest paid. We hadn't had any paying work in a month. I would love to move to Colorado, I love it there. It would be awesome to find a.shop that would help me relocate but I doubt that would happen when there is local talent. I would much rather be my own boss. It runs in the family so I know what it takes, generaly, ill have to look into what kind of grants or other funding I could cone up with to start out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zip Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 sixteen companies in Colorado doing fabrication similar to what you did .. http://colorado.uscity.net/Metal_Fabrication/ 83 welder jobs listed in Colorado ... http://www.indeed.com/q-Welder-l-Colorado-jobs.html I'm sure you'll land on your feet and get something soon. The one (Vestas) looks interesting because it's a European company (I think it might be Finnish) and they're into wind technology. It's down in Pueblo which is near the race track there. https://vestas.taleo.net/careersection/global_external/jobdetail.ftl?job=17840&src=jb&sdtl=Indeed&jvc=url this one is in Boulder. Great place to live, a bit expensive, but as Tony D pointed out, that's what room mates are for. You can get a room for about $500/month in Boulder. Wage is up to $24/hour DOE. http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?ipath=EXIND&siteid=cbindeed&Job_DID=J8A1FW72CPTDPF9G2BF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Yeah, getting people to pay is always a problem. I got into that with a former employer, who wanted me to stop work on a Net-10 paying customer I was billing at $150hr+ Premium Charges to go work on a 'COD Call-In' which paid $65 an hour. I recall that conversation well: "Joe, there are some customers you DON'T want!" I think one of the prime reasons he's still in the business today is the service work my partner and I brought into the job paid on time, consistently, and never argued over the bills. Big margins on big equipment compared to his traditional line of work. Couldn't understand why we would take weeks on the job and didn't 'do more work' (meaning more customer visits)---but never complained when those $100K invoices were paid Net-10 or on-time Net-30 (instead of the usual 60 and 120 day float...) Hell, I had terms and conditions for the larger jobs that the customer provide payment for parts IN ADVANCE (we're talking full payment for our cost, with the profit to be paid on the back end---usually couched to the customer as '50% parts cost up-front'...muahahahaha!) To think he hated me as much as he did is sometimes mind boggling. He never thought this stuff up, we gave him GOLDEN customers who paid what we wanted, when we wanted it, and sometimes IN ADVANCE so his 'small business' didn't suffer the weight of playing in the Big Dog's league. Hell, it paid his wife's Mercedes lease at $840 a month as well as giving her a $245,000 raise the second year we were there... Don't get me started... A portable fab shop in SoCal working in industrial stuff (gates, ornamental iron, light structural) will stay consistently busy, it's just finding or getting the word out to prior customers that you are out there. Moving alone for work rarely works out. The only people I know that do that should be retired. Wife and Husband teams with big fat bulldogs that live in travel trailers and go from plant startup to plant startup as skilled labor, or supervision on rotating contracts. It's an interesting life if you and the missus wants to travel. But with kinder, it's not going to work. And leaving for long periods just to make $$$ is tougher on the kids than most think. Skype does some stuff, but not substitute for some things. Edited October 21, 2011 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Sorry to hear this, Owen. Obviously you need to feed your family, and that's job one... But a couple of suggestions from a guy who hires people for a living: In this economy, the most expensive (and often the most skilled) are the first to go. Makes no sense to anyone except for owners of failing businesses at the time. Shoot for a slightly lower income, which is 110% counterintuitive. Have dialogue with the employer about this very topic... How healthy are they? Do you need to continue quietly searching while you take this gig? Don't be affraid to ask the hard questions. Many times employee candidates don't. Regardless whatever you get as a job to hold you over, start researching what it would cost to start your own business... I've said this before and will say it again... You'll never be in control of your future working for someone else. You'll always be a player in theirs, nothing more. Get a good accountant and a good lawyer. Do not skimp on insurances to make your business and keep your business legal. Get licensed and make sure you are registrered with the state. We've been in business for 6 years, took $12K and turned it into a multimillion dollar corporation and haven't missed payroll once. There are headaches, and challenges, tough times and hard decisions. But the reward is the ability to get up every day and look at yourself in the mirror and know that you are the boss and you control your future. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen C. Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Thanks.everyone for the advice and the job listings. I've polished my resume and made a portfolio of work I've done and sent them out to a few places. I've found a job in the meantime to put some food on the table. I also sold off a few toys and things so I have bills covered for a few weeks. The only project I.have left is my 240 but ill live out of its rat infested shell before I sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I have to say MikeK brings up a big thing nobody talks about: Talking with the Employer beforehand. Nobody sees a layoff coming...these days it's in some cases (with new laws) more cushioned if you work for a big company. I worked at a large corporation with started out 6 months ahead of time saying there would be layoffs. I offered then as the highest paid hourly employee to take a lower paying position in operations (instead of maintenance) to allow our company to function better as this was the only opportunity to 'cull the deadwood' of one gent that was 40+ and a drag on us all. Ultimately, I was sacked the same day as 1500 other people but I didn't get that severance package. Old age and incompetence got me, as I tried to clean up a mess someone else made and it got out of hand. Over the next several years, the company was sold 6X...the guy they retained ended up costing them a $100K environmental compliance fine as well as costs for continuous emissions monitoring, and eventually they fired him on another sale where the guy was out on a rehab bender (again) and they tested him upon return. The thing Mike mentions was applicable in my case: every quarter they obsessed on my salary and how it was coming out of THAT plant instead of being spread across four regional plants as originally planned. My willingness to take on less responsibility didn't work in their plans. So they saved $X per quarter sacking me. The month after I left, our outside contractor costs went through the roof. In the end, though they saved $X quarterly on my salary and benefits, they cost themselves $2.8X Quarterly in outside vendor and contractor costs. Yep, that made financial sense. My prior 'small business' guy cut people like cordwood. They were expendable. I shook my head at the panic due to lack of simple business acumen (or more appropriately, the avaricious ***** of a wife he had with her appetite for consumption and free spending...Though his penchant for litigating undoubtedly cost some of those 'cash pot' funds...) Really, it sounds daunting, and whatever you choose to do, cultivate your own job. Make one for yourself. Nobody I know of who has made the jump to self-employment has regretted it. With my situation changing now at this point in my life, I may even make a transition to contract work from employee. I had my taste for the little time I could...and I LIKED it. If you get people working for you doing the same thing, there is an immense satisfaction at helping out other people that are like minded as well...though the responsibility to keep them busy/employed can weigh on you. But maybe we're putting the cart before the horse. Get a job first, I guess...then we can worry about your underlings and their families as you take your yearly month long excursion to Aruba for vacation....during the rainy cold months when you are traditionally slow... Good Luck and keep a positive outlook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 All good points, but it should be kept in mind that not all people are natural businessmen with untapped talent just waiting to be unleashed. We can't all be a nation of shopkeepers or free-lance contractors. We can't all follow Horatio Alger rags-to-riches stories of the plucky fellow who turned lemons into lemonade, or whatever, becoming a titan of industry after getting turned out by a myopic boss eager to cut costs. But neither can we depend on the good graces of a wise small-business owner as employer. For some people, a corporate job isn't merely a paycheck; it's a community. If ejected from the community (laid off), the most natural impulse becomes finding a new community. So here's an alternative suggestion: look for a job in the public sector. The happiest welders/machinists that I have known, worked in university machine shops, building lab equipment for engineering departmental researchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) Obviously I couldn't disagree more, and yes Michael I know your comments were aimed at me...Horatio Alger rags-to-riches, really? WOW... Good going sport. You've worked one place your whole adult life. Not sure that qualifies you to give such advice. I've been a government employee. Nothing like not being rewarded for your hard efforts because budget doesn't allow, or because they don't have the "space" for another GS promotion... Yea the benefits are "OK" but even they're getting water'ed down in the government sector. It's not all it's cracked up to be, but those who don't know they've been institutionalized generally make the same arguements for "big" government. What I do know is this... Owen will never know he sucks at being a business man, or not, unless he tries... Mike Edited October 31, 2011 by Mikelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Mike, you know that I respect your views and achievements. My post is a counterpoint to the tenacious but sometime Pollyanna-ish exhortation of “go for it!â€, that so permeates the American spirit. There is a time and a place for such spirit, but when a man loses his job, we should commiserate – not extol the virtues of entrepreneurial enterprise. It’s true that one shall never taste failure or success until one works up the courage for the undertaking. I’ll never know if I suck at being a professional cricket player, a male prostitute, a Sufi mystic, or an Elvis impersonator, until I try. But does that mean that I should try? I worked in industry briefly, before my government stint. It was a defense contractor. You want waste, wanton ineptitude, misallocation of resources, parsimonious remuneration of employees, myopic failure to think ahead – try industry. These days, I interact quite regularly with the “big 3†defense contractors, along with small businesses that leach from the SBIR program (government welfare for “entrepreneursâ€). They don’t have quarterly Threatcon elevations for “training†like we do, but in terms of ostrich head-in-sand solipsism – no difference! A ghastly ruse plaguing our economy now is the belief that the private-sector is efficient, while the public-sectors is wasteful. They are all wasteful. It’s just that one is more honest about it than the other – and guess which is which? If Owen wishes to try business-ownership, I sincerely wish him the best – as I have always wished Mikelly the best. And I wholeheartedly applaud success wherever I find it. But bear this in mind: it is a rare thing for an employee to be fired for incompetence, but an even rarer thing for a start-up business to succeed. Does one feel lucky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) Michael, Thanks. I've always worn my heart on my sleave and maybe I take some things to seriously... You know, I had so many people tell me I COULDN'T OR SHOULDN'T try to do it, that I always try to provide encouragement to others. Hell I have had people on this very site question facts and figures I've thrown out about what we pay for benefits or what we provide for our employees. Bottom line is it's not easy to be your own boss and I hope Owen educates himself before moving forward towards a decision. 6 years later and we're still going strong. Gross revenue over that timeframe is well over $12M in gross receipts. Most of that going to pay for our employee salaries and benefits. My payroll is over $100K per month. Owen, It's been a great ride for me, and you know what, this could be you 6-7 years from now! Mike Edited November 1, 2011 by Mikelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogriz91 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I'm in the Arabian Gulf for another month and there are alot of contractors here doing everything imaginable, IT, driving buses, cleaning air conditioners etc. An electrician came in to repair my fridge and fix my outlet, said he was making three times what he could make at home (Jax FL) over 120 day period. They're paying guys to drive a bus for a year $53K. I'm not a recruiter for these guys, but the name of the company that has the maintenance contracts here is Sallyport, there are others, Northrup Grumman etc. It may be an option, it's hotter than hell here for four months but the money isn't bad, the living conditions aren't bad and the food isn't bad either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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