Project RB-Z then VQ35

[RB26powered74zcar]

 

Was asked by moderators not to post in two threads as wanted to show people the build and install of VQ30, so will post more details about engine swap in this thread rest of the work details here.

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/113021-vq30det-swap-in-240z/

 

 

Please post VQ30 pics and info here (my mistake   ) if you'd like, as this is your members project thread.

[docaam]

Please post VQ30 pics and info here (my mistake   ) if you'd like, as this is your members project thread.

 

Thanks 

[docaam]

Removed the Adaptronic ECU little bit of wiring to be removed then previous engine and other stuff will be shipped ti California

 

Dropped the new engine in to have some measurements for exhaust manifold and custom mounts

 

 

Sits way back and intake might touch the hood

 

 

Gearshifter braket needs goood 4-5" of cutting to come in place of stock hole as well.

 

 

Crossmember is touching the crank case but will move the engine down another 3-4". Will alter the cross member might make a new one and move the radiator close to engine along with AC condenser and Oil cooler. Intercooler will be in same place as before might be longer pipes but wont be close to hot oil cooler.

 

 

Parts already ordered will be here in a week's time

1. Griffin Double Pass Radaitor 19" X 24"

2. 16" Flex-a-Lite high majic 3300 CFM puller fan with shroud would need some shroud work, going with single big fan then twins as last time.

3. JWT clutch and flywheel combo

4. Moshimoto Intercooler

5. Moshimoto Coolant reserviour tank

 

Also converting to power steering as feeling wise stock wasnt that good and  crossmember is in works so would be easier to do now. so got these

1. Used 2000 Subaru forester steering rack

2. New outer tie rod ends for 1998 subaru legacy/impreza

3. 84 toyota celica inner tie rod ends

4. Whiteline  steering rach & Pinion mount bushes

5. Energy suspension stock steering rack bushes 

6. Moshimoto Power steering bottle

 

There is a DIY to install subaru forester steering rack using celica inner and legacy outer tie rod ends, lets see how it goes.

[Chris Duncan]

 

Also converting to power steering as feeling wise stock wasnt that good and  crossmember is in works so would be easier to do now. so got these

1. Used 2000 Subaru forester steering rack

2. New outer tie rod ends for 1998 subaru legacy/impreza

3. 84 toyota celica inner tie rod ends

4. Whiteline  steering rach & Pinion mount bushes

5. Energy suspension stock steering rack bushes 

6. Moshimoto Power steering bottle

 

There is a DIY to install subaru forester steering rack using celica inner and legacy outer tie rod ends, lets see how it goes.

 

 awesome swap

 

so where is this DIY steering rack article?

 

What kind of ratio does this rack have and have you looked at any other options?

[docaam]

 awesome swap

 

so where is this DIY steering rack article?

 

What kind of ratio does this rack have and have you looked at any other options?

 

I read a PDF file somewhere here with the conversion, not sure about ratio but I remember something like 3.5 compared 2.5 or 2.7 stock one. there are few threads here tons of information there

[Chris Duncan]

I read a PDF file somewhere here with the conversion, not sure about ratio but I remember something like 3.5 compared 2.5 or 2.7 stock one. there are few threads here tons of information there

 

 

So why would you want a slower ratio? Thinking 2.5 or 2.7 is already too slow.

[Pharaohabq]

That rack setup should work out well.  Are you going to use the Stock VQ30 PS pump?  I'd imagine that's the way to go, the harder part will be plumbing the Hight pressure lines. Usually they use thick wall metal tubing. I'm sure any hydralic company can make you some custom HP hoses.  It may be possible to reuse some S130 PS lines, or maybe your VQ30 lines, but be really careful bending them as any kinks can ruin the hard lines.  I'm planning on this same swap after I get my VQ35 running and in place, using the VQ pump.

[docaam]

 

So why would you want a slower ratio? Thinking 2.5 or 2.7 is already too slow.

 

 

Just because to have power steering

 

 

That rack setup should work out well.  Are you going to use the Stock VQ30 PS pump?  I'd imagine that's the way to go, the harder part will be plumbing the Hight pressure lines. Usually they use thick wall metal tubing. I'm sure any hydralic company can make you some custom HP hoses.  It may be possible to reuse some S130 PS lines, or maybe your VQ30 lines, but be really careful bending them as any kinks can ruin the hard lines.  I'm planning on this same swap after I get my VQ35 running and in place, using the VQ pump.

 

 

I know a shop who did my fuel lines, they do sell good high pressure lines, as mainly they do for diesel trucks, rack will be here by Thursday its in shipping then will see how to get it done. Will be using the stock pump for sure.

Edited June 9, 2013 by docaam

[docaam]

Working on the engine mounts, cross member had to be dissected quiet a lot, will reinforce it with steel sheets where the line is, which will be done once new forester steering rack reaches here on Thursday. Might need to relocate the oil filter as well.

 

 

Took a rollcage style pipe 1.5" will use it as new cross member welded to two plates which will lie on stock chassis rails, as we can weld anything on the chassis so will drill the rails and install steel tube to hold the bolts might put less stress on the rails. Mounts will be using stock for VQ35DE from 350Z, so far spacing seems tight but manageable

 

 

Main issue which was worried about was exhaust manifold with the turbo so that fits without touching the chassis rails but still engine is more on right side then left so some small alternation might be needed. There is same plate with two holes and some provision is left to move engine front and back incase its needed

 

 

For gear shifter might need some cutting as well where the red circle is marked but it will be done in the end.

 

[Pharaohabq]

Wow those Turbos are a squeeze in there.  I wonder if you can swap left/right exhaust manifolds to move the turbos forward a little to clear your brake MC a little more.  It'll be tight either way. 

 

I can you you did have to cut quite a big from the steering crossmember.. If you box it in in front and under the Rack you should be fine.  Did you look at the engine mounts in the link I sent you a while ago?  They're pretty good and a lot more minimal than using anything that looks similar to the stock mounts (350z type)   That setup uses L angle iron to allow the mount to be slid forward and back  so you can get just the right  locations.  I can send the link again if you need.

 

Yeah, That shifter, even with the shifter shortened as far as I could, I still had to cut about 2" back on the shifter hole to make mine fit.  You'll be fine I think. maybe 1", just enhour to get into gear.  You may have to notch the right side to so you can get it into reverse. but that'll all come later.

 

Phar

[docaam]

Wow those Turbos are a squeeze in there.  I wonder if you can swap left/right exhaust manifolds to move the turbos forward a little to clear your brake MC a little more.  It'll be tight either way. 

 

I can you you did have to cut quite a big from the steering crossmember.. If you box it in in front and under the Rack you should be fine.  Did you look at the engine mounts in the link I sent you a while ago?  They're pretty good and a lot more minimal than using anything that looks similar to the stock mounts (350z type)   That setup uses L angle iron to allow the mount to be slid forward and back  so you can get just the right  locations.  I can send the link again if you need.

 

Yeah, That shifter, even with the shifter shortened as far as I could, I still had to cut about 2" back on the shifter hole to make mine fit.  You'll be fine I think. maybe 1", just enhour to get into gear.  You may have to notch the right side to so you can get it into reverse. but that'll all come later.

 

Phar

 

 

I can move the turbo or add another lol as its just 100$, but dont want to route turbo lines, there would be some alteration to down pipe part and I might put some spacer to move the turbo a bit up, but all after mounts are done.

 

You didnt send me any link but just some name, please so do if you can. Only reason using 350Z mounts is for future incase wants some good or solid mounts then they will be bolt on.

[docaam]

Got the parts and work is moving as well

 

Cross member taking final shape

 

 

Took the broken turbo and got it replaced with a similar one, very nice condition.

 

 

Got JWT clutch and flywheel

 

 

Rest of parts

 

Double pass Griffin radiator 19""x 24" found it to be the best for this purpose 

 

Flex A Lite 16" fan with shroud

 

Steering rack bushes for both stock and forester one, will try to work out a combo of both

 

2000 Sti/legacy outer and 84 celica inner tie rod ends

 

Fits nicely, hopefully will make it close to stock steering rack along with plenty of toe adjustment.

 

Legacy original steering boot

 

Mishimoto coolant and power steering reservoir

[Pharaohabq]

Here's the Link to MikeyM's VQ mounts:  It's in the RedZedBuildThread on the V6 forum. http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/106860-red-zed-build-thread/

 

 

I've always planned to share the drawings with anyone who wants them, so here you go. These are the three parts which make up the mounts themselves, to make one mount you need to cut 2 x mount_upright.dxf

mount_back.dxf
mount_base.dxf
mount_upright.dxf

This will give you one of these:



mount_back will then need a bend put in it to follow the contour of mount_upright and then cut the excess off.

These drawings are slightly different from the ones I used; they include last-minute changes I did with the angle grinder. I'd also consider moving mount_base closer to mount_upright in the future, this would allow you to keep the steering shaft where it is if you ran the factory exhaust manifolds.

I also have a diagram with measurements needed to make the new crossmember.



The isolators I used are from a '70s Ford Cortina I think. They're 70mm x 35mm. I've lost the part number but this one is similar.

[docaam]

Here's the Link to MikeyM's VQ mounts:  It's in the RedZedBuildThread on the V6 forum. http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/106860-red-zed-build-thread/

 

Thanks man, I think I saw those but mine was kind of done when I passed by yesterday one picture attached will post later more, and the part which you have shown Im using stock one along with 350Z mounts, the problem here is if there are any visible of welds in chassis or mounts they don't renew the yearly registration so using stock engine mount was mainly because of this hassle and cant weld the cross member for same reason. I will try to follow the gear mounting as per MikeyM's mount seems legit

[Pharaohabq]

MikeyM's mounts aside. I see in your pictures what you've been doing.  You've cut out a lot of your Crossmember, Maybe more than really needed, but no matter, with some good bracing and boxing in, that crossmember  should  work out well.  Here's a picture of mine from my HR thread: 

 

 

You can see there  the little cut I did for my oil filter.  I may end up putting an adapter and relocating the filter along with adding an oil cooler. Currently though I have about 2cm of clearance around the filter with that cut.  You can see I've boxed in and added a good amount of material to the cross member.  Unfortunately you can't move that crossmember without messing with the steering/suspension geometry.

 

Now that AC pump really looks like it'll be in the way. I'm note sure how you're going to get around that.  I'm going to try making a plate that will move the AC Pump up along that side though on the VQ35, the Water line from the radiator is about 10cm above the pump. Another idea is to try to swap the AC and PS pumps, moving the AC pump out  farther to the left and the PS pump up and hopefully the steering will clear after adding Ujoints.  Making the brackets will be a pain, but I gotta have AC too, Though it gets hot here in New Mexico, I know its a lot hotter in Dubai.  When I get to this part, I'll be certain to show you what I do. Though I think you're ahead of me since I still am working on getting my Z painted.

 

Phar

[Pharaohabq]

I'm not sure I understand. You said you're not allowed to have visible Welds in your mounts?  Does that mean you can weld it, but that the welds like you've done in your engine mounts have to be cleaned up and sanded smooth?  That seems pretty strict, but I guess they're trying to keep things safe and prevent people from just throwing things together.

 

I was going to use the Stock rubber isolators myself, but  they are so tall, I didn't want to add to the trouble of getting around the AC pump for the steering shaft.  I'm using something similar to Mikey's mounts, but instead of the stock mount, like you've got, I'm using the stock engine bracket, Ford Bronco rubber isolators and the under mount almost the same as Mikey's/McKinney's mount. Of course I've built mine myself as well.

[docaam]

I'm not sure I understand. You said you're not allowed to have visible Welds in your mounts?  Does that mean you can weld it, but that the welds like you've done in your engine mounts have to be cleaned up and sanded smooth?  That seems pretty strict, but I guess they're trying to keep things safe and prevent people from just throwing things together.

 

I was going to use the Stock rubber isolators myself, but  they are so tall, I didn't want to add to the trouble of getting around the AC pump for the steering shaft.  I'm using something similar to Mikey's mounts, but instead of the stock mount, like you've got, I'm using the stock engine bracket, Ford Bronco rubber isolators and the under mount almost the same as Mikey's/McKinney's mount. Of course I've built mine myself as well.

 

Yeah man welds in mounts needed to be smooth I mean really smooth, and NO WELDS on the body at all like some people install bars to support the body or weld the mounts on chassis its not allowed here at all. I did something to the rack and AC thing seems in a better situation now check the post below.

 

Sorry couldn't post updates but there has been some progress but installing this engine sure is difficult 

 

We (myself and my mechanic) managed to get a custom cross member done for the engine now its in final shape and been tested already, with stock 350Z mounts.

 

 

With mounts on 

 

Installed the covers to see some space and test the mounts

 

Drilled holes as will keep screws to hold the mount to avoid any registration issues

 

AC compressor blocking stock steering rack

 

Turbo might touch/melt the steering coupler but it will be removed with new rack

 

Height without upper intake manifold seems ok

 

New Steering cross member, clamps to hold the suby steering is not not finalized will use stock rubber bushes. Its basically will move the rack almost half an inch forward but gives good space for crankcase

 

So with suby steering at least keeping AC compressor with a VQ engine seems to be solved there is around 3/4th of an inch gap and can be moved futher with adding another joint.

 

Height might be an issue need some shaving of intake manifold

 

Once steering rod is done will remove both cross members get those properly welded then grinding some epoxy primer and get it powder coated moving to exhaust manifold and fitting other parts.

[Pharaohabq]

As I was saying, we've got some real concerns about the Rack placement and Steering Geometry.  There's nothing that says your metalwork has to be symetrical, so if as I mentioned in the other thread, if you rotated the Subi rack back so it points under the AC compressor you may be able to mod the rack mount and frame rail to route the shaft back though I don't know about how the turbo would fit.   45 degrees is about the max for a U joint so keep that in mind when you're trying to route the steering.

[Lazeum]

I agree with comment above.

What would happen if U-joint angle being too big is torque variation on steering. If you plot steering torque vs. steering wheel rotation, you'll end up with a sine wave. Steering feeling will be wrong (at the condition that you can steer)

Edited July 2, 2013 by Lazeum

[PLATA]

WOW, a real nice graphic narrative on a built Z >>>>    

Edited July 2, 2013 by PLATA