L28 to L28Turbo

[HowlerMonkey]

For this setup, your basic need is an engine management system that you can select your spark timing.

 

I'm running 8 pounds of boost on a f54/p90 setup on a unmodified factory M30 ecu that has crazy aggressive timing in stock form and it's close to being too much timing.

 

Even a stock type ecu will work fine if it's either purposed for turbo use or the timing map has been optimized for boost.

 

 

If you are able to pull timing, you should be able to get away with 10psi on 93 octane.

Edited March 31, 2012 by HowlerMonkey

[Randall]

what is the easiest way to go as far as setting up timing with megasquirt and stock 280zx distributor?

Edited May 2, 2012 by Randall

[BrandonR.]

Hi just a quick note.

You asked if you could add an oil drain for the turbo with the oil pan on the car.

Please dont lol. Your engine will be dead before it gets oil to the topend. ~

To add an oil drain for the turbo you would need to drill a hole and weld an adapter to your oil pan creating metal shavings and slag to go in to the pan.

Remove the pan and then do the oil drain for the turbo, and then clean it better than you have ever cleaned anything.

 

Id hate to see you put all that money and hard work into her and hear that you spun all your crank bearings seconds after starting. So clean clean clean.

Also might want to look in to a 2mm head gasket to lower CR a little(not mandatory) And run some oil through the turbo when you get it to clean out anything that could have gotten in while it was off the donor car /before installing it on your car.

 

 

Good luck with the swap make sure to post updates & pics while doing the MS install

[ctc]

Hi just a quick note.

You asked if you could add an oil drain for the turbo with the oil pan on the car.

Please dont lol. Your engine will be dead before it gets oil to the topend. ~

To add an oil drain for the turbo you would need to drill a hole and weld an adapter to your oil pan creating metal shavings and slag to go in to the pan.

Remove the pan and then do the oil drain for the turbo, and then clean it better than you have ever cleaned anything.

 

Id hate to see you put all that money and hard work into her and hear that you spun all your crank bearings seconds after starting. So clean clean clean.

Also might want to look in to a 2mm head gasket to lower CR a little(not mandatory) And run some oil through the turbo when you get it to clean out anything that could have gotten in while it was off the donor car /before installing it on your car.

 

 

Good luck with the swap make sure to post updates & pics while doing the MS install

 

HowlerMonkey on this site, added a turbo oil drain with the pan in the car. He did a write-up on it as well. It can be done, but you need to be VERY careful. And yes, make sure you don't get any shavings into the pan.

[BrandonR.]

Im sure its been done plenty of times maby even hundreds but by the time u get done trying to keep the drill bit from getting shavings inside you could have taking it off, cleaned the inside and made welding a fitting on 5xs easier.

 

Imo as soon as that drill bit enters the oil pan even if it doesn`t have much filings its been contaminated, u may be able to catch everything with a magnetic drain bolt. But how much actually made it in and past the drain plug hopfully the filter will catch it. Then ur stuck thinking about the "what ifs"

Is the time it takes to remove a few bolts and a pan worth the risk of having a small piece of metal fall inside & go through your freshly rebuilt engine

Do what ever way you want to with that oil pan im just trying to help keep you from having to re rebuild your engine. Shouldnt sacrafice correct for quick. One thing i learned do it right the first time and there shouldnt be a second time also not as expensive that way for us with shallow pockets

[Six_Shooter]

That's why you don't use a drill bit to make the hole.

 

You're also grossly exagerrating about how quickly the engine might be damaged from a few small particles in the oil. You're also forgetting about the screen on the oil pump pick-up and the oil filter.

[BrandonR.]

If you READ what i said it says hope the OIL FILTER picks it up along with mention of a magnet to help catch any other metal.

The screen on the oil pick up isnt going to do anything for small particles. Back to the oil filter it only takes particles 15 microns in size to damage bearings "most" oil filters only catch down to 35-50 microns.

Why is it when someone trys to help someone everyone always trys turning it in to a fight.

Guess ill stop posting here ppl cant handle difference

My statement of spinning bearings in seconds was not ment to be a sientific fact more of a warning. Iv seen a piece of rtv about 1/8" round kill a fresh engine in the first 2 minutes of running im sure some small bits of metal can do the same.

like i said he can do what ever he wants to do. So can you idk

Would you port your head or intake while its attached to the engine i wouldnt.I also wouldnt use a hammer and start smaking pipes into my oil pan either but thats just me id rather take the 30min or less to remove the part

[ctc]

I'm sure you are going to take issue with this, but you are the one that turned it into a fight.

 

You said two statements that were factually incorrect.

 

1) To add an oil drain for the turbo you would need to drill a hole and weld an adapter to your oil pan creating metal shavings and slag to go in to the pan.

 

As pointed out, this is incorrect. HowlerMonkey did not weld his drain and did not create shavings. There are other ways to do this.

 

2)Your engine will be dead before it gets oil to the topend.

 

Again as pointed out, this is incorrect as indicated by Six_Shooter.

 

The problem is you made definative statements that are incorrect. When you expressed your opinion you said it as if it were a fact. I can't read science from warning with just text.

 

Rule 12 of the board, Typed text has no intonation, or expression and the members on this board sometimes come off as being rude, or impolite. Generally this is not the case, so please be a little thick skinned when advice is given that you may not agree with.

 

It may not be the way you do it, but yours is not the only way.

 

And as for you last statement, I would not port my head with it attached to the car. I think that would be stupid. I would retap a sparkplug hole with the head attached, something I would not have done only a little while ago. It was specifically explained how to do it on this very site. I read a lot and my opinions change. Magic!

[NewZed]

Here's the howlermonkey writeup in the middle of this thread, Post #17 - http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/70115-stock-l28et-turbo-return-lineflange/

 

Why not use the drain plug on the bottom of the pan as the port of entry for the returning oil? If you really don't want to take the pan off, or want something to get by until you can do it "right".

[Six_Shooter]

Here's the howlermonkey writeup in the middle of this thread, Post #17 - http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/70115-stock-l28et-turbo-return-lineflange/

 

Why not use the drain plug on the bottom of the pan as the port of entry for the returning oil? If you really don't want to take the pan off, or want something to get by until you can do it "right".

 

The drain hole is too low and too small.

 

The oil that is draining from the turbo is usually like a froth or foam, (hence the large oil drains) and not very oil like. This has to be returned to a point above the oil fluid level for best results, to allow the froth or foam return to an oil state.

 

I suppose the oil drain could be used, in conjunction with an additional oil reservoir that is fed from the turbo drain, but mounted high enough to not allow a back up of oil that wouldn't allow enough of an area to allow the froth to return to an oil state. But this is just over complication a simple fix. The only time I tend to build the additional reservoirs, is when the oil level is above the pan rail, such as a Ford Escort with a Zetec I worked on years ago, and most Hondas.

 

I like you're thinking though, looking at alternatives.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Six_Shooter

[BrandonR.]

Sorry to have offended anyone or the owner of the post.I NEVER said that it was the only way to do it. Didnt mean for it to sound that way I agree with the first thing you said CTC,wasnt trying to be an a$$. Lack of posts doesnt mean i dont read or research . I like Six shooters idea it gets rid of a 90deg on the pan.

Tony D used a 5/16" punch as a starter hole and a sharpened 1/2" pipe gave it a good hit & sealed it up.I saw pics of Six Shooters setup a few days ago before i posted

I didnt see his write up untill today but if you read it he DID have metal shavings but got rid of them fairly easy. I just didnt feel comfortable telling this guy to drill in to his oil pan and spray it down while on the car. I've witnessed crank failure in 6minutes,made me very cautious when taping oil pans:-{ I dont want anything i suggest to ruin someones car. Iv seen turbo pans for $15 the pickup cant be to much.If you do it in car use Six's write up.Id do it that way with the pan off the car that's how i am.

Good luck

[Six_Shooter]

Uhh, I didn't do my drain fitting in the car, you may want to edit your post to use the correct name.

[BrandonR.]

Sorry Shooter got mixed up there ment Howlers setup hard to post on a phone/Wont let me edit if someone could have a moderator/admin delete my posts to clean up the page maby just put faces there instead

 

That way someone can help Randall with his question on how to go about triggering his Ms from his zx distributor.

 

Like i said Sorry for sounding onesided or if offended anyone wasnt trying to put down anyones ideas maby im bipolar and dont know it. A solutions a solution.Iv just seen horrable engine failure happen during breakin, among crank seizing guy lost a small fortune before installing engine . Was just trying to help prevent that and worded things to where they seemed insulting I should have said "one way you could do it would be to...." instead of "you have to..."

 

Yall have a good day. Randall boost that beast and enjoy it wish i had f54/p90 solid engine.Sorry if i delayed any help for your distrubutor question from others.

[Randall]

It's alright...stirred up a lot of food for thought.

 

Anyways starting to move forward with the project. I just ordered MS II v3.0 with relay board and insulated wiring. Also ordered the walbro 255lph pump along with all of the sensors.

 

Here is an up to date list of what i have so far...

 

MS II and all sensors

Wideband LC-1

Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump

Intake Manifold

Stock T3 Turbo

Stock Exhaust Manifold

Rebuilt F54 Block w/ P79 head (Flat-Top Pistons)

 

List of what i know i need to still purchase

 

Injectors (Suggestions?)

240sx Throttle Body (What year?)

Intercooler and Piping (Suggestions?)

Turbo Oil Lines

 

May Purchase a P90 or P90a Head...

 

I plan on running at stock boost levels to get the feel since this will be my first turbo vehicle. I plan on ending up somewhere in the 275 to 300 HP range. So the intercooler and piping isn't too big of deal at the moment. I was doing some reading and was looking into the 370cc ford injectors but not sure since things will be modified although i wouldn't mind modifying the fuel rail since the stock one looks pretty ugly. Let me know what you think and also let me know if i am missing anything.

 

Thanks

[BluDestiny]

How much boost/hp are you planning on running eventually is the real question lol. With what you want, I actually think the stock turbo may be the limiting factor.

 

You can easily get away with that with the 370cc injectors, and if you want something a little better, go with the 440cc injectors. It will leave room for improvement down the road. I'd also go with a fuel rail to make it look nice, but that's preference.

 

You don't really need a p90 head, unless you want to build one on the side. I've only heard of one horror story of the p79 exhaust liners breaking of and detroying the turbo ( on a converted car).

 

An intercooler is an intercooler. I would prefer mishimoto sine they have a great warranty. I'm currently still wondering if I want to use hardlines to run my oil lines or fab some SS braided ones.

 

You should probably install a turbo oil pump, since you have the engine out of the car ( I assume) and I'm not sure if you need the Turbo dizzy or not. It is different from the NA dizzy, but with MS I don't know. And like stated above you need to tap your oil pan for an oil return.

[Randall]

Max that i will be shooting for would be 300 HP so im thinking 370cc injectors would be fine...Where do i get a fuel rail setup for these injectors? Any way to get the 370cc cheap?

 

300 HP is a long term goal since i already have a T3 ready to drop in and have not purchased an intercooler. So for now im looking at a max of 250 HP or so with the T3. What is the maximum i would want to go with the T3 until i install an intercooler?

 

Yeah i just thought of the Turbo Oil pump i forgot to write that one down.

 

I have done a little reading and i believe you can lock the N/A distributor and control it using megasquirt but im not entirely sure on this yet but as hard as it is to find a turbo distributor i hope this is the case.

 

Just found these

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/36lbs-fuel-injectors-mustang-thunderbird-turbo-svo-fully-cleaned-100-warranty-/170860146974?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27c80ef11e&vxp=mtr#ht_781wt_907

 

Are these the correct 370cc injectors and they say in the add i can get them low or high impedance. Which should i go for?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-1986-04-Mustang-36-lbs-hr-Set-of-8-Direct-Fit-Fuel-Injectors-/130706927916?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e6ebd712c&vxp=mtr

 

Also found these would this work?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FUEL-INJECTOR-E5ZE-A3B-36-LBS-360CC-BROWN-TOP-MERKUR-XR4TI-FORD-TURBO-/390431508346?_trksid=m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D102538494449808867&_qi=RTM1084479#ht_1077wt_754

 

This seems like the way to go 6 for $120

Edited June 23, 2012 by Randall

[Gollum]

Max that i will be shooting for would be 300 HP so im thinking 370cc injectors would be fine...Where do i get a fuel rail setup for these injectors? Any way to get the 370cc cheap?

 

300 HP is a long term goal since i already have a T3 ready to drop in and have not purchased an intercooler. So for now im looking at a max of 250 HP or so with the T3. What is the maximum i would want to go with the T3 until i install an intercooler?

 

Yeah i just thought of the Turbo Oil pump i forgot to write that one down.

 

I have done a little reading and i believe you can lock the N/A distributor and control it using megasquirt but im not entirely sure on this yet but as hard as it is to find a turbo distributor i hope this is the case.

 

Just found these

 

http://www.ebay.com/...tr#ht_781wt_907

 

Are these the correct 370cc injectors and they say in the add i can get them low or high impedance. Which should i go for?

 

http://www.ebay.com/...ebd712c&vxp=mtr

 

Also found these would this work?

 

http://www.ebay.com/...9#ht_1077wt_754

 

This seems like the way to go 6 for $120

 

Check the fuel injector sticky for more info on injector and rail options.

 

For people without any cooling solution I recommend not going over 10psi. 12 can be done, but I've never wanted to chance it for prolonged periods. Also notice I made it a boost level limitation, not a power limitation. The issue with needing an intercooler is HEAT, which is directly related to two main factors. 1. PSI Heat. When you compress air it gets hotter, plain and simple. 2. Efficiency range of Compressor. Raising PSI might throw you out of the sweet spot of the compressor inducing much unwanted heat, but increasing the flow with other mods can sometimes bring you back down towards the sweet spot depending on the compressor and the engine setup. There's no perfect answer, but most people end up finding out what I recommended at the start in this post. Don't venture too far beyond 10psi. With programmable fuel/spark pulling more timing and adding enough fuel might get you safely to 12psi just fine, it's more for the stock EFI that I'm speaking of.

 

The path to 300hp is a very wide and easy path. Hundreds, if not thousands of people have done it with the L motor and ways of achieving it are nearly endless.

 

As far as getting MS to control spark, I personally would just hunt around for the 82-83 dizzy. MS can control it directly and if you ever end up running super high RPM you can always do a crank trigger down the road. Even if it ends up costing you $100 it'd be worth every penny imo because you'll spend AT LEAST that if not double going COP or even Wasted Spark.

[Six_Shooter]

You can control timing with the MS, and using a non-turbo dizzy, by using a GM 7 or 8 pin ignition control module, triggered from the dizzy.

 

I would say I've done, and for all intents and purposes it would be the same, the only difference is that I was not using an MS, but a Delco ECM. Communications between the ICM and the ECMs are the same.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Six_Shooter

[NewZed]

Here's the howlermonkey writeup in the middle of this thread, Post #17 - http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/70115-stock-l28et-turbo-return-lineflange/

 

Why not use the drain plug on the bottom of the pan as the port of entry for the returning oil? If you really don't want to take the pan off, or want something to get by until you can do it "right".

 

Quoting myself for reference...

 

Realized that the big old PCV tube plumbed in to the side of the crankcase might be a reasonable oil return port. It's big and easy to work with, and the pipe can be removed, drilled, plumbed and replaced with no metal chips. I don't know how easy it would be to get in and out with the engine in the car, but it seems like you might be able to do it from under the car without too much trouble.

[Six_Shooter]

Quoting myself for reference...

 

Realized that the big old PCV tube plumbed in to the side of the crankcase might be a reasonable oil return port. It's big and easy to work with, and the pipe can be removed, drilled, plumbed and replaced with no metal chips. I don't know how easy it would be to get in and out with the engine in the car, but it seems like you might be able to do it from under the car without too much trouble.

 

The biggest problem with that is that the crankcase vent is higher than the turbo would be located. The oil drain needs to be well below the turbo, in order to have a properly functioning gravity drain.