CUSTOMmade Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 What ones would you choose and why or should I just make my own. I like the McKinney coilovers for the fact that the strut is adjestable from the top I don't want to have to pull the ball joint off to adjest all the time. Should I make my own with some Koni's or tokicos. I'd like to here from people who have them on there cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4nsm0l3m4n Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Konis should be a much higher quality shocks that can be revalved to your spring rate, if you are truly serious about your racing these are what you want. Tokicos are also decent quality and relatively inexpensive. AZC has never published who makes the shocks for their coilover kits to my knowledge so I cant speak for their quality, but most who have them seem to be satisfied. The Mckinnley coilover kits use Megan Racing shocks, with a Z car specific valving. They are pretty cheap, chinese/taiwanese shocks. Searching online will yield very mixed reports on their quality, etc. For a street Z I dont think you can go wrong with any of these kits. All these kits will let you lower the car pretty far and can give a pretty stiff ride should you require it. The valving might not be right for your spring rates but on the street the difference wont be significant enough for you to care/notice. FWIW I run the Mckinnley kit. The kit was ridiculously easy to install and I've run the car on quite a few autox events and driven it 3000 or so miles on the street. I keep them on a softer setting on the street, for a sporty but relatively comfortable ride then turn them up for autox. I'm sure a set of appropriately valved Bilsteins or Konis would be a better setup for racing but the Megans do well enough and I'm probably not a good enough driver to really eek out the extra performance advantage. Edited March 31, 2012 by h4nsm0l3m4n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 What is your goal with coilovers? Racing? Lowering as much as possible? Auto-X? How much track time is the car gonna see? All 3 of these kits are the "best" for different things. The arizona Z car coilovers are nice but a little specialized and a bit pricey... I don't know much about them but I have heard they're very nice. The megan/mckinney kit will probably get you lower than any of the other kits. And making your own (or a GC kit) has the advantage of being fairly inexpensive, and you can customize it as much as you want. If you're looking to slam your car, the other option is integra dc2 coilovers. These will have you banging frame rails, but if that's your thing, then go for it. I read through many hours of forum posts and write-ups and reviews on the different options and decided that sectioning my struts and getting the ground control kit was the best option for me. The thing I like about it is you can choose any spring rate you want, and any shock insert you want. I also realized that most of the guys who I consider Z guru's are running something similar to a GC kit. Also if you blow a strut it's pretty easy to get a single new one. All in all, it really appealed to me. It's up to you which one you decide to go for, but you really can't go wrong either way. Answering the questions above will give everyone a little more of an idea of what you're after with coilovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUSTOMmade Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Thanks Moleman anyone else have McKinneys in there z want to chime in??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24OZ Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I think with the McKinneys the bonnet won't shut unless you notch the hood?? They may have found a solution to this it's been a while since i checked the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 From a racing perspective, this thread has more information then you'll ever need: http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/50944-the-strut-thread-koni-illumina-tokico-carrera-bilstein-ground-control/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
503Alex Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I also like the fact that the Megan/McKinney kit has preload adjustment so you don't loose travel by lowering the car. I am happy with my Megan/McKinney kit, just waiting for a resolution on the clearance issue. I haven't driven it very hard, but the little time that I've pushed it I've loved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUSTOMmade Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 Thanks guys, See the Mckinney and the AZC are the cheaper option for me here in Australia. Koni's here are about $600 a pair and a sleeve kit is another $500 so thats up to $1700. Plus camber plates about $400 and up depending what I go for now were up to $2100 plus. I can do the install my self so I save some money there, but I could get the McKinney kit for $1450 shipped. It will be a street car for the moment, but I would like to do some hill climb and road rally In the near future. (don't know if any of you have heard of the targa tasmania) Luseboy makes a good point about blowing a strut if I go for the McKinney kit I will have to wait for one to ship that's even if they sell them separate. I fairly sure I don't want the AZC because of the inverted strut making adjustment a pain in the ass. Just wanted to hear from people that had experience with the Mckinney in case they were inherently bad. Doesn't seem to be that much info on them from the people who have put them in the 240's. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUSTOMmade Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 Also if I go with a sleeve kit like the ground control this type is lowered by lowering the spring perch, correct? And the McKinney is lowered by screwing in the strut body to the lower welded on housing?? Is there an advantage to this type of system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Have you checked pricing on illumina's? They're probably a lot cheaper, and the adjustment is on the top of the shock (the koni's have to be removed to adjust them). The thing about megan's is that they're really designed for street driving for drift kids who want to slam their car. Not saying that's the only person who uses them but they aren't necessarily built with racing in mind. As I understand it, road rally really tests supension, so that's something to take into account. The nice thing about a GC kit is you can get shocks made for racing and then choose a spring rate that will be nicer for the street, so you kind of have the best of both worlds. I'm pretty sure you can buy new megan struts alone, and they can also rebuild them. But it's much easier if you can buy something in Australia and it only takes a couple days to ship versus odering something from here (America) and waiting for them to ship (must be at least 2 weeks?). Not to mention the turn around of getting struts rebuilt. The AZC does sound like a nice option, but I personally wouldn't run them. Don't ask me why, but I just don't feel like they're really a good set up. Again that's just my opinion and it's not based on any facts or real world experience. Technically the GC way of lowering is worse because you lose travel from lowering. With the megan set up, you can lower and still have the same amount of travel. Lowering the way you do with a GC set up technically wears out your shocks faster, and makes you bottom out more. The way I see it though, is that if you're lowering, having less travel isn't bad really because then you don't rub on as much things since you will bottom out before the frame rails will hit ground (in most cases), plus if you're on tarmac, you don't really need all that much travel. Also, it puts you a little farther into the dampening circuit (assuming your shocks use progressive dampening, which I think most do?), so you get the suspension a little stiffer. The concerning part is that if you top out the shock (3-wheeling into a steep driveway) for a little bit of time, there is a danger that the spring will go crooked and not sit into it's perch and could cause some damage. How realistic of a fear that is, I don't know... And if you're running sway bars, it probably wouldn't happen anyways. I decided that it's no big deal, that many people run this set up on the track and on the street/dirt without problems. I am however running a poly bumpstop un-cut so that the suspension can ramp up enough when it comes close to bottoming. I felt this was plenty of insurance against a harsh bottom, and if I hit something hard enough to do any damage to the shock, it'll probably cause other damage anyways. I say go for the GC kit if you can figure out how to get it cheaper. You can always piece your own set up together for a lot cheaper, but the GC kit is all US-made and is super high quality. Haha funnily enough, GC used to be in my hometown (like 15 years ago) and some people I work with were buddies with the guy who owns the company. I was very impressed with the quality of my coilovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaner Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 ^^^^^^^ wow..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 ^^^^^^^ wow..... Lol I assume you're referring to the post being really long... didn't realize how long it was till now haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 If you're seriously going to track the car, I'd not consider Tokico Illuminas if you're running anything above a 250# spring. They're not valved to handle it... Also, did you check that thread link John C. posted for you? Take it from someone who has been through 22 Datsun Zcars over the last 2.5 decades. Don't go on what you can afford. Go with the right setup the first time. It may be more expensive, but will save you time in the long run, and money for the additional parts to make it right... Having upgraded way to many parts over the years due to not sticking with a game plan, I can tell you if I had the last 10 years back, I'd have done what I'm telling you to do now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUSTOMmade Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 So this is were I'm at now: KONI 8610-1437RACE Single adjustable or KONI 8611-1259RACE Double adjustable with a sleeve kit and sectioned struts,springs around the 225-250lbs, still not decided on spring rates but I think they are the easy part and cheap to swap. Are these the right Koni's to go for? got them from John's link Will they be over dampened for the street? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Mikekelly tells the truth, however I'm sure illuminas are better than the megan struts. It did say not to use springs over #250 in that thread about a million times which is why I didn't mention that. I'm using #225 fronts and #250 rears. If youre using konis and you're planning on doing some track driving, you might want some stiffer springs. I went for the #225 and #250 because that's like the maxiumum you can run on an illumina safely, and I wanted fairly stiff suspension but not too stiff because my car is pretty much going to be a street only car that may see a couple auto-X's, and perhaps a couple track days but probably not many. They may be a little harsh for the street, but I could be mistaken. The spring rate makes a bigger difference than the shock when it comes to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I'm going to be a bit nit picky here... The nice thing about a GC kit is you can get shocks made for racing and then choose a spring rate that will be nicer for the street, so you kind of have the best of both worlds. Actually, you have the worst of both worlds. Race valving with soft springs (unless the valving is specific for those soft springs) generally has too much rebound. The suspension would have a tendency to pack down, the car won't put down power well, and there's a tendency to lift the inside rear wheel causing wheel spin. Technically the GC way of lowering is worse because you lose travel from lowering. With the megan set up, you can lower and still have the same amount of travel. Lowering the way you do with a GC set up technically wears out your shocks faster, and makes you bottom out more. Technically yes, practically no. There is a limit to how low you can run any car and the S30 has some specific limitations caused by the front geometry. One of basics in car setup is to put the shock in the middle of its range of travel at static ride height. You want to prevent hitting the bump stops and topping out/lifting a wheel. There are exceptions like running droop limiters in front but the basic starting point is having the shock in the middle of its range of travel. And flat out no regarding shocks wearing out faster. The way I see it though, is that if you're lowering, having less travel isn't bad really because then you don't rub on as much things since you will bottom out before the frame rails will hit ground (in most cases), plus if you're on tarmac, you don't really need all that much travel. It depends. On a smooth track with big springs you may only need 2" of total suspension travel. On a bumpy track with soft spring you may need 5" of travel. Also, it puts you a little farther into the dampening circuit (assuming your shocks use progressive dampening, which I think most do?), so you get the suspension a little stiffer. Progressive damping is very old technology and is even being abandoned by the off road racers. Digressive is where everyone is right now, even the Tokico HTS/D-Spec is digressive. Sorry to go through your post like this, but its important on this site to get the details correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luseboy Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I'm going to be a bit nit picky here... *snip* Sorry to go through your post like this, but its important on this site to get the details correct. Interesting to read the facts of my assumptions haha. I guess I was wrong on a number of points there but the general message is that for the ultimate in handling and customization, a sleeve type coil-over kit such as the one you and ground control sell is really the best choice. Not to say the AZC and mckinney stuff isn't good, but to me nothing beats the simply fantastic handling that has been proven for decades by the sleeve type coilover. Good point on needing more travel on a bumpy track. The nice thing is you can very easily raise up the suspension for said bumpy track and gain more travel then lower it back down and get the less travel for the smoother track. Haha no need to be sorry, like I said, all of that was based off of my own... assumptions I guess is what you'd call it, but really based off of the conclusions I made from reading up on stuff. I guess I coulda done a little more reading, but you are in fact the expert here and I'd rather look like an idiot but have the facts out there than otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUSTOMmade Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 So are the koni part# I have still correct. John if I get the double adjustable koni's can I back the rebound off Far enough for light springs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 My setup improved massively by increasing springrates. I'm running the 8610s with GC sleeves and GC Camber plates, along with my own design control arms up front, with AZcar upper camber plates and lower control arms in the rear. Believe the springs on the front are 500 and I'm running 400s on the rear. My car handles way better now. Mind you, I've only had it to two tracks so far, but driving it around on the street the car is so much more planted and stable. Knowing what I know now, I'd never start off with such a light spring front or rear... I actually ended up selling all my lighter springs to another member because I know they just wouldn't be sufficient on a roadcourse. Mark Icard and others steered me right on this. So this is were I'm at now: KONI 8610-1437RACE Single adjustable or KONI 8611-1259RACE Double adjustable with a sleeve kit and sectioned struts,springs around the 225-250lbs, still not decided on spring rates but I think they are the easy part and cheap to swap. Are these the right Koni's to go for? got them from John's link Will they be over dampened for the street? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 500 pound/inch springs? Pardon my silliness, but unless youve done some drastic reinforcement- Arent you basically turning your chassis into a spring with rates that stiff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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