MaTTSuN Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 RacerZ and NewZed you make a good point. I cant remember the last time i did my valve check but i know i've done it before. So i guess now is as good a time as any. Im also going to look into different spark plugs, I went with the platinum small tip one on my last change. think ill go back to the stock NGK's to try and get everything baselined Im not going to get into wires, and cap and rotor because i would rather just get my EDIS system ordered. Id like to get that set up by the end of the month. Yasin, Thanks for the Guru advice ill give Kurt a shout and see what he thinks. I appreciate all your guys help and ill be sure to put some vids up of my "regular starting Z" as soon as it does so. Back to work this week so not sure how much time ill have to tinker with the Z but i want to drive it pretty bad since i havent had a real drive to test the 17" Kumho XS' 245/275 tires or the arizona brakes. Thanks again Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FricFrac Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Lol more like MegaSquirt Rank Amature. Most of the time with MS it's a setting not some mechanical issue (although it can be mechanical). What is your MS setup - injectors, WB02, etc, etc. I have a good base map for a stock tune on MS3. I would recomend going to MS3 and the MS3X daughter board if you are thinking of running a distributorless ignition. PM me your e-mail and I'll send you my tune and you can check it against your setup. More details on your configuration would be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FricFrac Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Oh and if you go with the MS3/MS3X you don't need an EDIS system AND you can tune it yourself which is super important to make power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I've never been happy with platinum plugs, either in my Z or my Toyota 22RE. NGK standard plugs are what have always worked for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaTTSuN Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Oh and if you go with the MS3/MS3X you don't need an EDIS system AND you can tune it yourself which is super important to make power To go EDIS its 145$ for parts to uprade to MS3 from MS2 its 200$ What will this upgrade do for me? I can already tune with MS2 I know the MS3 has 16x16 resolution but not sure what other benifits it has. The full MS3 is close to 600$ a lot out of my current budget Id like to do this "tune up" for 200 or less. From what i have read EDIS can help. My current set up is MS2 with relay board,stock 81 L28Turbo with CAS,stock turbo @9psi,340cc ford injectors,3inch exhaust with Cat,LC1 WB.Large FMIC. My goal is to run 15psi. and have it work like a regular car, starting and sitting in traffic some times. If that can be achieved with a little tuning and this upgrade i may sell it. But id like to get it to that happy place because it is a fun car to drive Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddle Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 .........What will this upgrade do for me? I can already tune with MS2 I know the MS3 has 16x16 resolution but not sure what other benifits it has. MSII running the Extra code gives you 16x16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 MS2 will also run COP or waste spark. I am running waste spark because I didn't feel the 3 other outputs were best used for COP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddle Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) MS2 will also run COP or waste spark. I am running waste spark because I didn't feel the 3 other outputs were best used for COP. http://www.msextra.c...ra_Ignition.htm I'm running complete EDIS, but I can not do spark cut, I might look at waste spark controled by MSII Edited June 12, 2012 by Noddle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 What i was wondering if im missing something in the settings to get it to start faster. ... So i guess my question is, Where in the setting should i be adjusting that effects start time? Seems like there might be some deviation from the original goal. Unless the proposal is that better ignition timing and stronger spark at high RPM will make it start faster. Just observing. No turbo, but my essentially stock NA engine, with no CSV, and a fuel system that holds pressure, starts within 1-2 seconds cold or hot, every time. There should be a simple way to get there with MS2, I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaito Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 My buddy had a ms2 l28et that acted as you describe. I updated his firmware and it went away for the most part. After it warmed up, it ran like crap> come to find out it was a blown headgasket. I would just look at ALL the little things you can before you get too into the troubleshooting. Having an extra eye helps sometimes also. I often see stuff that people overlook while troubleshooting. Dont worry, you will get it though. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer Z Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I would just look at ALL the little things you can before you get too into the troubleshooting. ... Don't worry, you will get it though. I agree 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaTTSuN Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Im starting to feel the same way. The more questions i ask the more issues with old wiring i find. One thing i do know is its something in the ignition so im going to spend some time this weekend to go through all the wiring that i last put together 7 years ago. Already found some broken wires in the coil, fixed those with no real change in start up time. Im leaning towards the CAS wiring now. the 3 wire's coming off it. connected them to the MS2 with a trailer weather connection. Might be time to redo that connection. The reason i think its the CAS is at cranking it might not be getting a strong enough signal at lower voltages, once it starts its usually fine. Is there a way to bench test the sensor it self? Im prob going to order the parts to go EDIS monday if there is no improvement with my current set up. Thanks for all the replies it definitely helps with my own brain storming. Ill try and get some pics up to give this thread some Meat Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Bump..any updates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaTTSuN Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Bump..any updates? sorry for the delay, Managed to murder my battery so it was hard to know whats wrong, the battery or the tune. Just put in a Optima yellow top this morning and it starts allot stronger but still needs some tuning. Did have a chance to tune this morning but will have some time tonight to play with it after work More to come ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaTTSuN Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 sorry for the delay, Managed to murder my battery so it was hard to know whats wrong, the battery or the tune. Just put in a Optima yellow top this morning and it starts allot stronger but still needs some tuning. Did have a chance to tune this morning but will have some time tonight to play with it after work More to come ... Havent got it perfect but it start allot better with the new battery. Still havent ordered the EDIS stuff yet. I kind of want to get everything working correctly before i "upgrade" anything else. When i start it, it still feels like its fighting back when the ignition hits but the battery has enough juice now to fire it up. Im going to say %90 of the issue i was having was from my battery. But its the other %10 that i need to work a little harder on these are the unknow problems with wiring or crank sensor. Thanks again for your ideas guys. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer Z Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 When i start it, it still feels like its fighting back when the ignition hits but the battery has enough juice now to fire it up. "feels like its fighting back" ... Timing is off. Have given it a standard tune-up yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaTTSuN Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 "feels like its fighting back" ... Timing is off. Have given it a standard tune-up yet? Define standard tune up Plugs, wires, cap, rotor, airfilter, oil change? Did an oil change, cleaned the K&N plugs are not to old. Cap and Rotor and wires are not new, but dont have allot of miles since they were changed. Timing is set to 15deg advanced on start up. Sometimes "rare" it fires up almost instantly. so i know the set up is capable might just be a loose ....something Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Have you checked your timing with a light? If MS is controlling the timing, and your dizzy has slipped or turned a little, then MS is commanding the map timing plus the dizzy offset. Check your base timing with a timing light, make sure it's correct. SAVE YOUR CURRENT TUNE. Crank the engine with no throttle...if takes a while to start, then make sure your have the priming pulse set up. If it is turned on, (it's under cranking settings), the key on and let the fuel pump prime and the priming pulse click, then key off. Repeat. Try to start it...if this starts it up faster, then increase your cranking pulsewidth. If it acts worse, then try cranking with a smidge of throttle...if this helps, reduce cranking pulsewidth. If neither of the above help, go back to the tune you started with. Reduce timing advance from 15 to 12. If that is worse, then advance timing from 15 to 18. I wouldn't reccomend going higher than 18, unless you really have something against your starter...kickback can be rough on the bendix. (I say this, but my car runs best with 18 degrees base timing, and I have run as much as 24 degrees...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer Z Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Define standard tune up Plugs, wires, cap, rotor, airfilter, oil change? Did an oil change, cleaned the K&N plugs are not to old. Cap and Rotor and wires are not new, but dont have allot of miles since they were changed. Timing is set to 15deg advanced on start up. Sometimes "rare" it fires up almost instantly. so i know the set up is capable might just be a loose ....something Matt Changing parts is only half of the tune-up. The other half is adjusting things. To be a bit more correct, it's "check and adjust as necessary". It seems you don't have points, so that's one less thing to check. You need to check and adjust, as needed: the valves and the ignition timing. The specifics are laid out in the service manual. 15 degrees seems a bit much to me and too much advance will cause the symptom you described in "fighting back". Wrong timing will also cause other problems, such as: running hot, low power, starting hard, pinging.... I usually do a "static time" so that it will start and idle. Then after it comes up to operating temp I use a timing light. I use the light while the engine is running at proper idle. Xnke spelled things out quite well, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaTTSuN Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 Changing parts is only half of the tune-up. The other half is adjusting things. To be a bit more correct, it's "check and adjust as necessary". It seems you don't have points, so that's one less thing to check. You need to check and adjust, as needed: the valves and the ignition timing. The specifics are laid out in the service manual. 15 degrees seems a bit much to me and too much advance will cause the symptom you described in "fighting back". Wrong timing will also cause other problems, such as: running hot, low power, starting hard, pinging.... I usually do a "static time" so that it will start and idle. Then after it comes up to operating temp I use a timing light. I use the light while the engine is running at proper idle. Xnke spelled things out quite well, I think. I couldn't find my timing light but i did manage to get it starting without touching the throttle. I played with the timing a little and the cranking pulse width as well. Going all over the place i finally settled on 10deg crank timing and 1.0ms for cranking pulse width. It still kicks sometimes, each start is a little different then the last but it start with in 3 seconds, Thats allot better than where is was a month ago. Thanks again for all your tips. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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