R200 from a Q45 + 240z = frustration.

[Sim]

I do recognize that this topic has been documented many times before, and believe it or not, I've read most (if not all) articles pertaining to this, on this site and others. But it is clear as mud. Here is my guarantee: if I can find help here, I will make a VERY PRECISE and WELL PHOTOGRAPHED swap so that others in the future aren't as confused as me.

 

I own a 1971 240z, and I want to drop the the R200 that came out of a '94 Q45 (there has been even people speculating that the Q45 had a R230, but from most sources, it is an R200). I've retained the inner CVs with a 6-bolt flange pattern - the halfshaft axles and outer CVs are gone.

 

Someone I know is parting a 1979 280ZX, and the diff has already been picked by someone else. I was thinking I could grab the moustache bar, front diff mount and rear control arm hanger, but some documentation suggested that only up to 1988 280Z (not X) moustache bars would bolt in. Will a 1979 280ZX moustache bar bolt into my 1971 240z and accept the R200 from the Q45? Is the front diff mount and rear control arm hanger worth picking from this 280ZX?

 

As apparently the CVs weren't implemented in the N/A 280ZX (this car has u-joints), I'd like to use other CVs. Someone else has Z32 300ZX (n/a) half-shaft axles - they have a 5-bolt flange on the differential side, and just the one-piece CV/stub axles on the other (is there a proper name for this?). some documentation says that the Q45 CVs accept 30-toothed splines, which the Z32 TT has, but not the N/A version (which has 29). Really Nissan, REALLY?

 

There has been some articles suggesting that pathfinder axles are a good fit (length-wise, tooth-count wise) - keeping in mind, I still need two wheel-side CVs on the 30-tooth splined axles.

Then there are the dreaded stub-axles. Can I use the 280ZX stub axles and companion flanges in the 240z? On the companion flange side (CV-side), what bolt pattern will I be expecting? 6-hole (3 pairs)? Seems like I'll need to find either the proper outer CV to mate to it, or machine an adapter (which will affect the overall length).

I am aware that several companies offer kits that would make my life easier, but I don't have thousands of dollars to throw at the rear end of the car right now.

As a bonus question; is it worth getting the rear brakes off the 280ZX? I see many people have done it, except adapters must be machined to hang the calipers. Are the 280ZX housings the same, and could the whole thing be swapped into the 240z control arms?

thanks so much,

Sim

http://www.geocities.com/jasonparuta/diffswap.html
http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/70534-r-200-spline-counts-and-mystery-hlsd/

[1 tuff z]

Need to do a bit more searching as I'm confident nearly all your questions are somewhere in HBZ. I'll help with what I believe to be correct. Here goes-You will need another pair of cv's from a q45 and special order axles. I believe you'll need a 280z r-200 mustache bar, not the rear hanger from a zx. Then you want to get the Ron Tyler style front mount [Techno Toy Tuning [TTT] sells them], Arizona Z sells the correct mustache bar. You cannot use zx stubs in the s30 chassis. You can, however upgrade your 240z stubs to the larger 280z stubs and in the process install new bearings. Where are you in Canada [please update your location with that detail], I ask as there are many members on HBZ who I know would be willing to help but if they knew where in CA you live.

I do recognize that this topic has been documented many times before, and believe it or not, I've read most (if not all) articles pertaining to this, on this site and others. But it is clear as mud. Here is my guarantee: if I can find help here, I will make a VERY PRECISE and WELL PHOTOGRAPHED swap so that others in the future aren't as confused as me.

 

I own a 1971 240z, and I want to drop the the R200 that came out of a '94 Q45 (there has been even people speculating that the Q45 had a R230, but from most sources, it is an R200). I've retained the inner CVs with a 6-bolt flange pattern - the halfshaft axles and outer CVs are gone.

 

Someone I know is parting a 1979 280ZX, and the diff has already been picked by someone else. I was thinking I could grab the moustache bar, front diff mount and rear control arm hanger, but some documentation suggested that only up to 1988 280Z (not X) moustache bars would bolt in. Will a 1979 280ZX moustache bar bolt into my 1971 240z and accept the R200 from the Q45? Is the front diff mount and rear control arm hanger worth picking from this 280ZX?

 

As apparently the CVs weren't implemented in the N/A 280ZX (this car has u-joints), I'd like to use other CVs. Someone else has Z32 300ZX (n/a) half-shaft axles - they have a 5-bolt flange on the differential side, and just the one-piece CV/stub axles on the other (is there a proper name for this?). some documentation says that the Q45 CVs accept 30-toothed splines, which the Z32 TT has, but not the N/A version (which has 29). Really Nissan, REALLY?

 

There has been some articles suggesting that pathfinder axles are a good fit (length-wise, tooth-count wise) - keeping in mind, I still need two wheel-side CVs on the 30-tooth splined axles.

 

Then there are the dreaded stub-axles. Can I use the 280ZX stub axles and companion flanges in the 240z? On the companion flange side (CV-side), what bolt pattern will I be expecting? 6-hole (3 pairs)? Seems like I'll need to find either the proper outer CV to mate to it, or machine an adapter (which will affect the overall length).

I am aware that several companies offer kits that would make my life easier, but I don't have thousands of dollars to throw at the rear end of the car right now.

 

As a bonus question; is it worth getting the rear brakes off the 280ZX? I see many people have done it, except adapters must be machined to hang the calipers. Are the 280ZX housings the same, and could the whole thing be swapped into the 240z control arms?

 

thanks so much,

Sim

 

http://www.geocities.com/jasonparuta/diffswap.html

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/70534-r-200-spline-counts-and-mystery-hlsd/

Edited January 10, 2013 by 1 tuff z

[Sim]

Thanks a lot man; although you are the bearer of bad news. Looks like none of the 280zx stuff will work... Maybe the brakes and calipers with the proper bracket machined.

 

Just some info on me; I'm a mechanical engineer, with practical experience. I'd rather machine it, than buy it (I'm also cheap). So yes, I saw the thread where the guy suggests getting four Q45 halfshafts, and pirating just the CVs. But that requires the axles to be bought for a few hundred from Arizona or maybe MM. After that, I suppose, the proper adapters to go between the 6-bolt CV, and the companion flange... Or just go for the MM stub axles and companion flanges. But my point is that there's no real advantage to the 6-bolt Q45 outboard CVs because they won't fit anything I have anyways.

 

I was thinking I could go with either the pathfinder axles which apparently are the correct length, or getting some Z32 TT ones and modifying them depending on how much they need to lose. As for the outboard CVs; it would be nice to find another set of Q45 CVs, but I don't necessarily have to if pathfinder or Z32TT or 280ZXT CVs can be used. Sure, they're all a different bolt pattern, but if I need an adapter between the outboard CV and the companion flange anyways, what does it matter if its a 6-bolt, a 5-bolt, or 3 pairs? 3 pairs (found on 280zxt) may be the most practical, as they'll bolt right into the 280z companion flanges. I think?

 

If I can't find a bolt-in solution for the front diff mount, I'll make my own bracket that will mount the snout upwards like the good designs do.

 

I'm looking for easy, stronger-than-stock solutions - and I'm ready to make it myself if I have to - bit if there's an easier way, I'll take it. If I can't find a 280z moustache bar, I may just build my own.

 

Any more info would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Sim

[Sim]

Oh yes, and I'm in Toronto.

 

Sim

[NewZed]

The 280Z body style changed in 1979, with the ZX (in the States).  None of the ZX drivetrain mounting hardware will work on the Z car, except the two studs in the cover and the holes for the front mount.  The ZX's don't have a mustache bar.  The only good differential part you'll get from a 79 ZX is the differential assembly itself, which might be a longnose R200, but could be an R180.

 

It's been proposed that the diff and its carrier from the shortnose Q45 R200 (which you most likely have) will swap in to the long nose R200 case with its ring and pinon gear intact.  You might need sleeves for the botls thoguh.  This allows you to use typical longnose R200 hardware to bolt the diff in to the car.  Then you need half-shafts to get the power to the wheels.

 

The most difficult and/or expensive part of the swap seems to be getting half-shafts of the right length with the right bolt pattern.  If you come up with a good inexpensive plan I'm sure it wil be popular.

 

I've been through most of those threads and every now and then they'll get brought back to life.  Somebody with the Pathfinder axles blew up a CV joint when the axle shaft pulled the joint apart.  His adapter thickness was off a little bit, not thick enough.  There's a recent thead on a similar problem with the Modern Motorsports kit.  He didn't have an adapter but had custom shafts, the joint pulled apart.  Good luck.  Take extra care on those half-shafts.

Edited January 10, 2013 by NewZed

[Sim]

thanks guys - so essentially it'll only be the rear brakes worth grabbing. that's disappointing - the 280ZX didn't even have CVs in which to pirate. the diff is gone, and I have my own R200 anyways. I can't believe the ZX stubs won't even work.

yeah, when I assemble my rear end, I'm going to make sure everything is the proper length. measure twice, cut once

I guess I'm going to revisit finding pathfinder shafts (30-spline) with CVs, and 280Z or late 260Z stubaxles. 

 

Sim

[johnc]

Actaully, the rear calipers for the early 280ZX are not worth grabbing.  An odd design with a small pad area and very heavy.  The late 280ZX or Maxima calipers are a better choice.  What's making your design frustrating is that you are using parts you have or can get cheaply as opposed to designing your solution around what others have done successfully using the known parts combinations.  That path will require some mahcine work which seems like something you're willing to do.

[RebekahsZ]

I love my maxima calipers because the e brake actually works really well. But they dont stop the car much when it is in motion. Is the problem with balance more of a pad size problem or a cylinder size problem, or is this a stupid question?

[Sim]

I think I read somewhere that if you redrilled the R180 moustache bar, and flipped it, you could use it for an R200 installation. did I just make that up?

 

Sim

[NewZed]

The first page of this thread will answer a lot of your questions - http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/49194-differential-cv-lsd-hp-torque-r160-r180-r200-r230-diff-mount/

 

The R200 mustache bars are out there, typically from $50 to $75.  Hardly worth messing with trying to drill spring steel (see the thread above, first page).

 

As johnc inferred, your and other's, and my, difficulties come from trying to save money by using existing parts and puzzle-piecing it together.  Study the Modern Motorsports parts below, and the link inside with the install pictures and you'll see pretty much everything that needs to be considered.  The first page of the link above shows some shortnose R200 install parts also.

 

http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=74&PHPSESSID=9e25b7fab3e9baf204ae3aa017e3d66f

 

I have also read that the stock control arms may interfere with the big flanges on the short-nose diffs.  Most people seem to have aftermarket control arms for this diff swap.  One more thing to watch out for.  It was noted in the Pathfinder axle threads. 

[Sim]

Thanks NewZed; I've seen that thread, and read it over probably 10 times as there's a lot of information and terminology to digest. I just didn't post it above - there are many other diff threads too. That one doesn't mention anything about 280ZX stubaxles or lack of moustache bars - only that 280ZXT had tripod CVs which I did remember. I've seen the MM R200 install too; it's a good reference. and unfortunately R200 moustache bars are a little rare where I am. I may just build my own bar. 

 

Sim

[RebekahsZ]

There has been a mustache bar on ebay within the last week. See if it is still out there.

[johnc]

The stock moustache bars are made from a pretty hard spring steel.  I drilled one out - once - and will never to that again.

[SUNNY Z]

I have an R200 mustache bar with poly bushings in id cut you a deal on.