PapaSmurf Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 (edited) So I finally figured out why I've been having so many issues with this junkyard f54 block. I got it torn all the way down and on the engine stand, then I skimmed off all gasket material and removed as much paint as I could. The plan is to get it into the machinist as clean as possible so he can get it even cleaner in the tank. While I was brushing off the paint I peered into the front coolant passage and noticed something interesting - rust stalagmites/stalactites the passages were almost blocked. This lines up with the state of the water pump pretty much rotten. I also pulled out what appeared to be a chunk of a wire brush from the coolant loop in the head going to the heater core! This is the kind of thing that might be blowing my head gaskets and causing some overheating so I made a block off plate for the front coolant passage going to the water pump and I've filled the water jackets with vinegar. block off plate made with sheet metal and permatex the vinegar ate through the permatex I have some cleanup work ahead of me. So has anyone tried this? I hear it works and it's safer than muriatic acid just slower. If it works I'll be doing this with my heater core as well I'm sure it's full of rust. I need to replace or tank the radiator before it all goes back together too. It's been sitting like this for a day now I can still see the vinegar bubbling and popping out the coolant jackets presumably disolving rust. If this works I've just found an awesome new tool Edited May 11, 2013 by PapaSmurf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgsheen Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Housewives and plumbers have known the benefits of vinegar for eons when dealing with calcification. If you have the time, it works... Just me, but I can't stand the smell - and Evap-o-Rust works pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaSmurf Posted May 11, 2013 Author Share Posted May 11, 2013 (edited) Yeah I considered alternatives but at $2 a gallon I figured vinegar was the most economical choice. Gotta save whatever scratch I can for the machine shop they tend to overcharge quite a bit. They know they're the only decent shop in the area not so much because of know how but because they're the only ones who have decent machines. Edited May 11, 2013 by PapaSmurf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Only goes after some things. And as an acid, that includes the metal of your block. If you can get the block REALLY caustic hot tanked...that is the way to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) Becuase of hazmat disposal problems alot of machine shops dont have the good old caustic soda hot tanks anymore.It was well worth the $40 or so for a good hot tank cleaning-everything stripped to clean shiny metal.I have heard that clr stuff you get at the hardware store works on rusty water jackets.Trying that next week. Edited May 12, 2013 by randy 77zt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaSmurf Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 Yep no hot tanking around here my machinist just has an automated pressure washer closet dodad. I don't mind it taking off a few thousandths of good metal so long as it removes the rust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 You can get hot-tanking done in L.A.! $150 though... They're out there, you just gotta look. For that kind of money....welll... Lets use the CPI adjuster to rationalize it back to our same fee from 1979! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaSmurf Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 Damn environmentalists make our hobby so expensive. I've seen people build their own tanks out of a parts washer and hot water heating element but its kind of overkill for me at the moment. Someday when I build my dream garage - (with smaller attached house) I might set one up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Those boys down at the Wauna Mill got PLENTY of what you need, and got it HOT to clean that block out really fine... If they don't the guys at Camas Mill do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaSmurf Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 I found a guy local that has a small tank but for 80 bucks I think I'd rather invest that somewhere else the vinegar is on day 3 and still hasn't finished. I think I've got another 4 days to go but I still don't have the cash to get this decked yet gotta get the crank polished too before I go putting it back together. There is a part of me screaming just put it together and drive but I know I'll regret it lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaSmurf Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share Posted May 13, 2013 I just hosed her out and I'm actually amazed at how much rust was removed I'm gonna fill it up again and let it go for another day or two so that the remainder is removed but all in all I'm satisfied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I currently have a l28 block in my garage . am making a block off plate for the water pump and I am filling it with that CLR stuff from the hardware store.Stuff was $26/gallon though.Next time will try vinegar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I have used Sulfamic Acid, which is about 0.77¢ / LB, but it ONLY attacks calcium. After mixing water in solution I will run the engine at temperature for a while... Then chelate it wit Caustic Soda... The Sulfamic acid takes out the calcium from bad water, the caustic takes out a lot of the black crap and rust.... Though the head can suffer from such harsh treatment... Haven't had the time to make a hot burner...got a 1/2 55-gal stainless steel drum and a Wilden Teflon pump to circulate it... If I can figure a bolt-on head fixture to pump hot caustic through the block in a reverse flow direction I think the results would be pretty good without having to make a whole hot tank. The issue of the core plugs does rear it's head with this option as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob-omb Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I have used Sulfamic Acid, which is about 0.77¢ / LB, but it ONLY attacks calcium. After mixing water in solution I will run the engine at temperature for a while... Then chelate it wit Caustic Soda... The Sulfamic acid takes out the calcium from bad water, the caustic takes out a lot of the black crap and rust.... Though the head can suffer from such harsh treatment... Haven't had the time to make a hot burner...got a 1/2 55-gal stainless steel drum and a Wilden Teflon pump to circulate it... If I can figure a bolt-on head fixture to pump hot caustic through the block in a reverse flow direction I think the results would be pretty good without having to make a whole hot tank. The issue of the core plugs does rear it's head with this option as well... I was just about to ask if anyone has tried a commercial descaler like Sulfamic Acid or ScaleKleen (aluminum salts). I've had great success using those to descale espresso machine boilers. They'll strip a solid 1/4" thick coating of calcium build-up in 30 min. and make a copper boiler look like a brand new penny. But, like you said, the head would suffer. Neither are friendly to aluminum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Head suffers from the CAUSTIC, not the Sulfamic acid. That stuf is VERY specific, we used it because its so aggressive against calcium, but doesnt attach copper, aluminium, steel, brass, or cast iron! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 You can get hot-tanking done in L.A.! $150 though... They're out there, you just gotta look. For that kind of money....welll... Lets use the CPI adjuster to rationalize it back to our same fee from 1979! Yep, though I paid $90 for hot tanking in Fullerton a few years ago and the shop was apologetic about the price! Call around to engine shops and they'll point you in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy 77zt Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 I made a block off plate for the water pump and filled a crusty l28 block with the clr stuff you get at hardware stores.The soak time was 3 days.All rust was removed and results looks like a good old school hot tank job-bare grey metal.Stuff was $26/gallon though.I was %100 happy with the results.Rinsed very well with water when done.I would try vinegar becuse its cheaper bit I am kind of skeptical about it beating the clr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaSmurf Posted May 20, 2013 Author Share Posted May 20, 2013 Well the rust is gone vinegar worked! I took my crankshaft in to get it polished and balanced today and I was turned away he said it was too long (gigity) so I took it to a different guy. The worst sort of machinist the profiteer. Guy quoted me 100dollars to polish and measure it. He said it would be 70 bucks just to polish without measuring and he was telling me that he could balance it but its not like balancing a tire its involved lol he started trying to prepare me for a huge markup and I just turned him down. I think I still got screwed 100 bucks for a polish? Seems unreasonable. Im pretty sure I can't afford a good running engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaSmurf Posted May 20, 2013 Author Share Posted May 20, 2013 I made a block off plate for the water pump and filled a crusty l28 block with the clr stuff you get at hardware stores.The soak time was 3 days.All rust was removed and results looks like a good old school hot tank job-bare grey metal.Stuff was $26/gallon though.I was %100 happy with the results.Rinsed very well with water when done.I would try vinegar becuse its cheaper bit I am kind of skeptical about it beating the clr. The vinegar takes longer but at 2 bucks a gallon it's a great option if you're waiting for money/parts and she's apart. it took 2 cycles to remove the bulk of the rust so it cost me $4 dollars instead of $100 for tanking or $30 for clr. that's money saved to spend in other places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 You should add some piss and just use that blend instead of coolant. Should be good for some horsepower if the old saying runs true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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