1vicissitude Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Hey guys, sorry if this is the wrong section. I didn't see a regional so I figured I'd post it here. So I am wanting to purchase a coilover setup, but I cannot weld or fabricate. I was just going to order the techno toy tuning set, but then realized I'm still going to need some place to weld the camber plates. This leaves me wondering since it will be at a shop already should I just buy the Koni struts and Ground control sleeves and have the shop do the whole thing? What have you guys done in the past that can't weld? How much should I expect to pay for strut sectioning and camber plate installation? I know this can change greatly shop to shop seeing as beta sells essentially the same coilover set for twice as much as T3. I'd greatly appreciate some prices for a point of refference. Does anyone have experience or know a shop that isn't ungodly expensive for strut sectioning and camber plate installation in the southern CA area? Or do any of you guys do work like this on the side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) You're not to far from JohnC. He's in La Habra. I'd go through him if I was that close. http://www.betamotorsports.com/ Obviously, the more you do, the less it will cost you. I was quoted by my welder about $300. That was to clear and cut out the tops, line up the new ones, and weld them in. That was not including the price of him removing the old crap and putting the new crap in. Edited September 19, 2013 by BluDestiny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1vicissitude Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) I by no means intend to step on any toes, I'm aware of Beta and JohnC, but $4,400 for essentially the same thing I can get through t3 for $1700 after core exchange is not something I'm willing to pay for. I just don't see how $800 worth of Konis and 4 sleeves/hyperco springs equates to $4,400 before installation of camber plates. I mean realistically speaking thats like $2,500 in labor for just strut sectioning. My pockets don't run that deep and I don't think most normal fab shops would charge anything near that for strut sectioning. I was hoping for other suggestions. I'm not looking for full race car development, just coilover installation. Edited September 19, 2013 by 1vicissitude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldAndyAndTheSea Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Spend 500 dollars and get yourself a mig welding setup, with a bottle and teach yourself how to weld. Then you will be able to make any of these projects yourself; not limited to a coilover installation. Either that, or be prepared to pay to play. That's my .02 (it's what I did) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) I'm confused, I thought the original post was specifically about cutting the tops out and welding in camber plate, but here you're talking about buying full coilovers. You can still buy the T3 setup and have john just do the camber plate install. I'm not saying JohnC's will be better than T3. Heck you can make the T3 coilovers for about half the price that T3 is charging. If you really want to save money, collect the parts, measure and cut the tubes, and then bring it to a welder and have him weld on the perch. That's it. That should cost you almost half of what T3 is charging, unless you get fancy with cleaning the stuff up. You just need a guy who welds. Make the measurements yourself. Edited September 19, 2013 by BluDestiny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1vicissitude Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) OldAndy- True, that is always an option. I have always wanted to learn. However, this will probably be my only welding prohect in the foreseeable future. I'm not looking to get it done for free by any means. Hope I'm not giving that impression. Blue- I fully intend to pay, just not absurd prices. I mean for $2,500 I could have had a baller 10pt cage made for my miata, $2,500 is not chump change. I'm not planning on buying the beta package. My whole point is if beta charges that much just for sectioning, I don't even want to guess how much it would cost for four 4 camber plates. I'm assuming the total package is more than my rust free well running z cost. I agree I just need someone to weld, which is why I asked here. Seeing if anyone from Socal had experience or any leads. I don't want it to turn out like that other guys a from a weeks ago. So if anyone knows a welder who has done this type of job before, please let me know. Edited September 19, 2013 by 1vicissitude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockerstar Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) Comparing the T3 kit and John's kit isn't comparing apples and apples. His comes with A LOT more. Add up all of the pieces that you're getting with his kit and you'll see that his prices are fair. If you want something less than the kit he offers, get in contact with him and see if there's something that you can work out at a lower price point. Edited September 19, 2013 by cockerstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1vicissitude Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 Maybe it does, looking at the list I don't see it. I'm just saying its like going to a ferrari mechanic for an oil change. Surely someone cheaper is capable of it. If anyone knows that someone, please let me know. If not, in the mean time I'll just start calling fab shops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 You're not reading the posts by Blu. I didn't charge $4,400 to install a set of customer supplied struts. Typically it was about $200 per corner to cut out, measure, and install weld-in camber plates. The $4,400 you're quoting above was for a set of media blasted, inspected, crack tested, powder coated, shortened struts, Koni 8611 double adjustable shocks, threaded collar, adjustable lower spring perch, upper camber plates, upper spring perch, Hyperco springs, new inner and outer wheel bearings, media blasted, crack testing, inspected stub axles, seals, and everything completely assembled. Apples and oranges dude. And since I'm not selling those kits anymore, it really doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 And, BTW, Betamotorsports was sold to Benton Performance back in April. We do work on Datsuns but only two customers follwed me over to the Porsche shop. Now we're billing out at $120 an hour so I don't expect many Datsuns in the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 And $2,500 for a "baller" cage is typically what's charged for an 8 pt. SCCA Spec Miata cage unless you go with a pre-bent cage from MiataCages or Dwight's shop. I'm not sure where your extra two mounting points are but that would put your "baller" Miata in EP or FP and you better be spending more then $2,500 for a cage if you're running in those classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1vicissitude Posted September 20, 2013 Author Share Posted September 20, 2013 Well I've been quoted similar from blackbird fabworx on the miata cage. Take it with a grain of salt. My only point was from the prices listed on the site (now I know they don't matter anymore) I'm positive there are places that do sectioning cheaper, t3 is an example. I have no intentions of knocking your shop Johc. If I were looking on turning this car into something competition worthy you would be the no brainer. In my experience paying a niche race shop to do basic work is the expensive way to go about it. Even paying $2,000 to get some $800 OTS konis into the car is hard to choke down, I see a $4,400 price and I'm expecting ASTs, Penskes, or Ohlins. I know you're a well respected knowledgeable guy in this community, and I totally get that. I meant no offense. I'm just looking for an affordable shop that I can have some camber plates welded on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Look back in the suspension forum for the guy who just got his car hacked to death by trying to save a few bucks. If I lived within trailering distance to johnc, he would do all my chassis work (assuming he had time to do it) if I had to get a second job to do it. Every time I have attempted a cheaper alternative to one of his suggestions I have regretted it. I will be buying my next set of konis from him, just so I know that what I get will fit. The devil is in the details-you can run into incompatabilities between your shocks and and your pillow bearings. Make sure those cooperate or you will spend the difference in custom machine work. I love my DP bolt in camber plates that John put me in. They are not infinitely adjustable but they are super easy to install and adjust. Google images for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 The DP camber plates are a good option. No strut tower fab required. I used to charge $550 to section four struts. $650 if you wanted them powder coated. And I don't know where you're getting $800 for Koni 8611s. 8610s are around $210 each plus you have to source the gland nuts at $20 each - if you can find them. Last time I had to order 50 of the gland nuts to get Koni to bring them into the USA. Then there's the work to fit the 8610s/11s into the 240z strut tubes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutantZ Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I've had work done by John while he was at Betamotorsports and I thought the prices were fair for what I was getting done. It seems expensive until you realize that you are paying for work done by someone extremely familiar with the car you have and has done this sort of thing many times over. Metal is metal, its how you put it together that counts. That being said, I understand the need for a budget. Another option is to save/wait longer to get something that is known to work and has worked before, especially with suspension/brake components. Good look with your project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1vicissitude Posted September 21, 2013 Author Share Posted September 21, 2013 Ah, well I seem to have been totally mistaken, the prices on the site seemed misleading. Either way, as Johc said himself, it is irrelevant now. Being that the Porsche shop bought them out and they now bill at $120 an hour, I can't imagine that being an affordable solution anymore. Again, sorry if it seemed like I was stepping on your toes Johc. Just trying to find a affordable solution and the prices on your site (now old site??) scared me away. BTW for anyone interested, THmotorsports has the 8610s for $179.38 with free shipping, so with ~$20 gland nuts = $800 koni 8610s. Plus they are in IL, not even sales tax for us out of staters. I also understand just taking this to be done by some random guy with a welder is a bad idea, and I saw that thread with the horrifically shady job done. This is why I started the thread, to see suggestions from southern CA residents about where they had their work done. I get the whole Beta or bust mentality, specially with Johnc providing such a wealth of information to the board, but surely people in CA have used other fabricators as well, right? There are a lot of talented fabricators out here in our state, I find it hard to believe the only suggestion is Beta who isn't even really in the same game anymore. Of the replies Johnc and mutantz the only people out here in CA from the looks of your profiles, can i get some input from people actually out here? Would seem a lot more relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 In that case, my personal fabricator is Tom at Morse Muffler. He's located in Burbank CA and they build full frames for sand dune runners. He also does my exhaust work. I would also go to him for a cage, and he recommended exactly where the bracing should be, thickness of the tubing and plates, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Call TH Motorsports and see if they will honor that price for the 8610. If so, buy them. Current Koni WD pricing is more then $179.38. Lots of shops have old Koni pricing on their web site because they rarely sell any. Reality sets in when a customers goes to purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickiewicked240z Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Well I'm doing my coilovers. Using metal sleeves custom hats to use stock top strut mount. Took strut housing to my father inlaws shop he Used his oil lubricating metal saw to section struts. Then took everything to the shop next to my dads shop had the guy weld everything used angle iron with clamps to keep everything straight. $20 later I have welded section strut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyder Z 15 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Well I'm doing my coilovers. Using metal sleeves custom hats to use stock top strut mount. Took strut housing to my father inlaws shop he Used his oil lubricating metal saw to section struts. Then took everything to the shop next to my dads shop had the guy weld everything used angle iron with clamps to keep everything straight. $20 later I have welded section strut. Your wheels look familiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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