Should I pay $6K for a resto, salvaged 71 Z??

[vudoocustoms]

[vudoocustoms]

the car looks exactly the way it does in the pics.  nice and clean,  no dents or dings.  I was telling myself that if the car looks exactly the way it looks in the photos, then i was going to buy it, but then I find out that its salvaged.  I was thinking the z was just a photo queen with her photogenic appearances...wrong!  She looks like her pics, thats for sure

 

The chin spoiler does have a couple of small 05"-1" repaired cracks.

 

Passenger door seems to not close flush.  Sticks out maybe a centimeter or so...you can kind of make it out in the pics.

Driver door closes maybe a mmm or two in and doesnt come out flush with the quarter panel.  He states its an old car and nothing is perfect...??

Edited December 17, 2013 by vudoocustoms

[seattlejester]

That doesn't look too bad at all. Not a big fan of the two tone interior, but the engine bay looks immaculate and the outside looks pretty good.

 

Door alignment is kind of tricky. There are a few adjustments on the hinge and near the door catch, but it will only help so much. Depending on how hard it was hit in the back the entire chassis could have shifted and the doors will never really sit flush, or it could be just a few adjustments to make it fit right, or it could a couple hours of checking/rechecking/shimming etc.

 

It kind of raises concerns if a body man can't line up the doors.

 

With that all said, the important bits would be underneath the car, the floors/frame rails/etc etc, and around the battery tray. If those have to be repaired it can cost more than half the asking price. With the car sitting so low it would be hard to poke around down there.

 

You still haven't answered what you plan on doing with it. With a car in that condition it seems difficult to imagine you will be hooning it around much. With a salvaged car, the same reservations you have about buying it are the same reservations another buyer is going to have if you decide to sell it down the road. At 6k, in the condition it looks like it is in and given the rot associated with these cars, I honestly don't think a salvage title is too bad. It will be difficult to get insurance to payout accordingly though, since someone somewhere has cashed a check for the value.

 

If this is the year you want, in the condition you want, and you have the money to spend, there is no competition around, and you are not planning on trying to flip it down the road, I would have the floors and frame inspected, the alignment checked, have someone familiar with the S30 go over all the potential rust spots, and then make an offer contingent on him lining up the door panels and painting the rest of the car (if you like his work). If not, take out the price of the respray for the rear of the car and the cost of taking it to a body shop for the door alignments.

[vudoocustoms]

I just plan to drive it.  I dont plan to mod it anytime soon....no hooning around for me...too old for that:)  I like it because it is a turn key z.  I drove it on and off the freeway and it drives straight and pulls quite nice...the 2.4 feels like a truck:).  From what I was able to see when I peeked under the car is that it has been sprayed with that black stuff...kind of like bed liner spray.  There were some impact spots from speed bumps and such, im assuming, that had some lining cracked off and was white underneath. 

 

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the two tone interior either.  All black would have been better.

 

So again, I only plan to drive it on sunny days.  No mods as of yet.  Maybe drive it for as long as possible the way it sits.  I feel that it needs nothing and looks and drives just fine for what it is.  ...although an RB or SR would be nice...jk.  I feel that the brakes can use some work.  He states the brakes are performing at 70%.  I feel that the brakes are performing at 50%-.  I have to litterally hit the brakes firmly and very early to stop. 

 

My uncle has restored a one Z so I will have to consult with him as well and find an unbiased party to check it out as well.

 

Resale is always on my mind if the price is right, but I'm far from it at the moment. 

Thanks for the inputs!!

Edited December 17, 2013 by vudoocustoms

[PLATA]

GO , and get her before she goes to some one else .Looks good at that price tag. FWIW 

[PLATA]

Depends on the car. A Bugatti with a salvage title - no problem. A Z with a salvage title - a problem unless you plan to keep and enjoy it forever. You will get less return on any upgrades than on a Z with a clean title when you sell. That's just a fact of life.

 

For example, in most cases, the best deals are had when buying someone else's restoration rather than doing your own restoration. Years ago, I bought a prime Porsche for about 50% of what the seller had spent to put it in top condition. If it would have had a salvage title, it would have been reduced in value by an additional significant percentage. That's just the nature of a salvage title. It's not the same as a clean title and carries a stigma because there's no guarantee of how well a salvaged car was repaired I terms of structure and safety.

 

As I mentioned earlier, you can put a lot of lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

Dennis

What if you get a Z from a State( or you register the car there) that does not issue a tittle for an older car and you get that Z a title via a title service in a title friendly State . Then you get what ? A CLEAN TITLE .......................  

Edited December 17, 2013 by PLATA

[280zex]

I would buy that, but start with a 5k$ cash offer and go from there.

It sounds like you just want to have an occasional cool toy to enjoy, and for that price it looks good. Remember tho that you are going to need to know how to fix issues as they appear, or any shop you goto is gona stick you with a nasty repair price tag

 

Go get it and have many years of Z enjoyment!!

[clocker]

 I feel that the brakes can use some work.  He states the brakes are performing at 70%.  I feel that the brakes are performing at 50%-.  I have to litterally hit the brakes firmly and very early to stop. 

 

 

Brakes are easy, options abound.

 

And thinking about the whole salvage title thing a bit more...

 

Seems to me that how much weight you assign a salvage title is in direct proportion to the number of potential candidates and how far afield you're willing to roam.

As we searched for our project car last summer, we saw several cars that were in that price range and not nearly as nice. But there were only about 5 or 6 cars to chose from at that time.

Increasingly, it has to be a sellers market because the numbers are inevitably shrinking.

 

Our previous project car, a V-8 FD RX7, had a salvage title and the insurance company didn't care, the DMV didn't care and we sold it within two weeks on CL.

The title didn't seem to be an obstacle at all.

[psdenno]

There's no guarantee on the structural integrity of a "clean title" car either.

It could be as damaged as a salvage car, they just didn't file a claim.

 

Sorry, but that's not the point.  The point is that a car with a salvage title is worth significantly less than an equivalent car with a clean title at the time of sale.

 

Going a little further, has anyone here insured a car with a salvage title for full coverage and not just liability?

Dennis

[clocker]

Sorry, but that's not the point.  The point is that a car with a salvage title is worth significantly less than an equivalent car with a clean title at the time of sale.

Dennis

To whom and who says?

 

You state that as a hard and fast rule, yet I factor the title very lightly.

[PLATA]

Sorry, but that's not the point.  The point is that a car with a salvage title is worth significantly less than an equivalent car with a clean title at the time of sale.

 

Going a little further, has anyone here insured a car with a salvage title for full coverage and not just liability?

Dennis

Valid on a late model car with loan value , a car in MD with antique/historic tags no title questions are required for insurance coverage FWIW

[vudoocustoms]

The maintenance and repair part of it is not a problem. Im a grease monkey every now and then.

 

Insurance, i have not thought about. You guys bring up a very good point. Ill have to give my agent a call...or should i call hagerty...idk lol

[vudoocustoms]

I am leaning more and more on buying it...

[seattlejester]

Oh, the dents and crackling undercoat is a concern to me. That's one of the first signs of rust or really shoddy application of undercoat. Granted up here with moisture that may be a different indication then sunbaked California where it could literally just be from the heat.

 

I was told by a local restorer, that when he goes shopping he take a rubber mallet and if he taps an area and the underlining falls off, he hands the guy a 20 for his time and hits the road. For me it was similar, when I crawled under my car with a hammer and tapped the floors, only non rusted areas held onto the undercoat, any damaged area quickly released the undercoat in large chunks.

 

I would definitely get it checked out, the carpet peeled back, the frames looked at through the drainage/inspection holes. If the guy refuses, then maybe make part of the payment contingent on a clean bill of health rust wise.

[Tony D]

What if you get a Z from a State( or you register the car there) that does not issue a tittle for an older car and you get that Z a title via a title service in a title friendly State . Then you get what ? A CLEAN TITLE .......................  

Washing the title doesn't necessarily work unless you leave a state that has "salvage" or "flooded" on the record. In fact, these days insurance company databases are a bit more sophisticated than states. They are the ones at risk, and realizing the states incompetence in some of these matters, took it upon their industry to start recording losses.

 

A "salvage" car in California likely will retain that it's lifetime...only if you move to a state where "salvage" or "flooded" or other title washing is accomplished will it leave. To what end, other than deceipt and shady business practice, I don't know. Real collectors, with details in full on the life story of the car will likely ignore the title status when properly repaired.

 

Another way to AVOID having a car "salvaged" is to refuse to allow your insurance company to pay out. No pay out, no salvage assignment. You fix it yourself! That avoids it altogether.

[Tony D]

Sorry, but that's not the point.  The point is that a car with a salvage title is worth significantly less than an equivalent car with a clean title at the time of sale.

 

Going a little further, has anyone here insured a car with a salvage title for full coverage and not just liability?

Dennis

This really is not true in every case. Simply not true. As I said, for run of the mill cars (Geo Prism, Corolla, etc...) a 50% value of blue book is generally assigned? THIS CAR FOLLOWS THOSE GUIDELINES FROM WHAT IS PRESENTED.

 

BUT...

 

Get into "collector cars" especially rarer ones, and that the car HAS a title (regardless of type) is far more important.

[vudoocustoms]

^^ so does that mean the title, regardless of type, will impact the value of the car more or less?

[T-Bone028]

It doesnt sound like you're interested in the car for monetary value, but for the personal enjoyment.  For a 6k asking price, I would say it's reasonable-ish.  Other than the undercoating concern, rust (if applicable), and how you would insure it with a salvaged title...I think it's an ok deal.  Fix the brakes, put in a 2.8 or Chevy v8, and enjoy the car.  But thats just my opinion with YOUR money.

[seattlejester]

For really old or really rare classic cars, titles get lost, and chassis can be declared salvaged for a variety of reasons. Some kind of title, whether clean or salvaged that confirms the cars place in history is valuable, compared to a listing indicating just what the car actually is.

 

Take for example that a car collector bought an old Mercedes 500 k for several million dollars. It was appraised for higher, but due to the fact there was no title or real history of the vin, it lowered the price a bit. He had the car shipped to Germany for a car show, where the car was seized and taken to the original owners. Turns out the old classic Mercedes had been confiscated by the Nazi's at some point and the family had been waiting for the car to enter Germany to stake their claim on their stolen property. A title of some sort, even a salvaged title would have more or less prevented that from happening. 

 

Heck, I believe some cars are famous because of their salvaged title. I'm sure there are a few cars out there that have belonged to a famous celebrity or it was crashed at some race or event in history, so the salvaged title and date add value to the vehicle.

[Tony D]

"A title of some sort, even a salvaged title would have more or less prevented that from happening. "

 

I just went through this on another forum.... "No it won't!" and in California surely not! Titles are pieces of paper, and can be made up at any time for various reasons. The Mercedes is an extreme example but I have seen this happen countless times on Lein Sale Cars in CA. Guy buys at a lien sale, pours money into it, and then finds out the original owner has decided he wants to buy out the car during the reclaim time as listed in the CVC. Many people are overraught that they dumped money and parts into something on their own, but since they have no professional standing lose the  car for the cost of the parts, and the original cost of the car. KEEP IN MIND A LIEN SALE TITLE IS NOT A SALVAGE TITLE!!! It's a full on TITLE-TITLE, with nobody the wiser save the guy holding the original title to the vehicle and making a claim to the police and the DMV!

 

Stolen cars rarely are protected by 'the title' there are COUNTLESS examples in the Port of LA every year where 23 Window Micro Busses, 67 Vettes and other collector cars are discovered by port authorities on export documents and are confiscated to be returned to the insurance company or the original owner. In the past couple of years the Bus and the Vette stick out as they were stolen in the early 70's and the owners were still alive to take possession. The bus was recently restored and sold to a Japanese dude, but had the title "washed" through several states....all using the original VIN. The restorer bought it cheap, fixed it up and sold it for quite a bit...he had no idea of the shady past because 'clean title' -- the buyer was out the money, no real recourse. The original owner could claim it from the insurance by paying the deductible paid out or some such ridiculously low amount  considering the sale price upwards of $30K. The original owner wanted a few photos with it, and 'made an arrangement' with the buyer so it ended happily, but just because a "Title" shows free, clear, and unencumbered...does NOT mean it's 'clean'! Like they say, the law never sleeps... Once it comes up on the radar, they lock on and shoot it down pretty regularly. Theft never validates a transfer of ownership.

 

In the case of an original owner retaining title after an accident, ESPECIALLY in the case of a Collector Car, a "Salvage Title" is much more preferable to having one that is 'clean' but obtained through a Lien Process...

 

"^^ so does that mean the title, regardless of type, will impact the value of the car more or less? "

What it means is NOT NECESSARILY. This car has no rear bumper. It's a custom vehicle, not concours. It's a construct of the seller. The type of origin is basically irrelevant. If he has documents proving all provenance, and the insurance paperwork, for a CUSTOM, COLLECTOR CAR that lineage is valuable and proves the extent of the 'salvage'....

 

As has been said REPEATEDLY here, a 2012 Kia Sorrento up for sale with a Salvage Title is QUITE A BIT DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCE than a 40-Year Old Custom Collector Car. Inexperienced people are applying the wive's tales applicable to Late-Model cars that are subject to Bank Financing Restrictions to a car where that is simply not applicable.

 

This is much ado about nothing. The car could sell for more, it's 'around' the price it should be... The car is cheap for what appears to have been done to it. Is the salvage title making this a $3,000 car? HELL NO! And the value should the car be maintained properly WILL GO UP. It's a non-starter and dwelling on it is something I just don't understand. Insuring a car with a salvage title means NOTHING in the state. I had a salvaged late model that I put 155000 miles on... I bought it for $3500 cash against a blue book value of 12,500 at the time of original sale. It was made from three different cars and was confiscated out of a Chop Shop by LAPD. They reconstructed it and used it in sting operations for 6 months, then sold it.... To Me. I insured it just like any other vehicle, through AAA with no issues whatsoever. The BANK was the one that hemmed over a loan stating "it was half the value...." and I had to explain $3500 was less than $6250 and if it was going to be an issue I'd just buy it CASH...and did... Despite them realizing it was like I made a 50% downpayment and offering me 2% terms afterwards (in 1994!). After 155,000 miles, a sleeping driver PIT Maneuvered it into the center median with damage to the LF and RR. The Insurance Adjuster got to $6,000 and said "More than 50%, we're going to salvage it!" I laughed "It's ALREADY A SALVAGE CAR!" He pulled it up and was shocked...said "well, that would have saved me some time..." Then proceeded to tell me how to KEEP the car since you can't Salvage a Salvage car twice....it's ALREADY salvage! So we retained the car for a cost of $500 off the settlement (which was, uh.... $4,500!!!) Now, follow this: We kept the car for sale, and a Mexican dude bought it for $600 and a Goat. Yes, like "Baaaaa" goat...we needed a weed trimmer. So, for ALLLLLLL the people telling me at the time NOT to buy a 'salvage vehicle because it lessens the value, and will be a headache' I ended up driving a car I bought for $3,500 for 6 years, 155,000 miles wrecking it, getting the insurance payout of $4,500(it was $5,000 remember we 'paid' $500 to keep it), PLUS residual for selling the car for $600 and a goat. On the face of it, I got PAID $5,100 after wrecking it. If you take into account we bought an Alpine to mate with the Goat (named "Geo", of course) it had three kids. We sold each of the kids at Easter for $150 each ($450 Total) and then sold the known good mating pair with multiple propensities for $750 to the guy who sold us the Alpine.. So was buying a "Salvage Car" a bad thing for me? No. Will it be for you? Who knows, but I highly doubt it.

 

If you have the money, buy it. Quit worrying about what everybody else will tell you about it. Driving up to a car show, when's the last time you were asked about your car's title status?

 

California is a grab bag when it comes to vehicle titles. This is not a $400,000 Shelby Cobra sold on original title with "John Morton Provenance" (only to find out from John himself that they sawzalled the car after it's wreck and put the pieces into the dumpster outside Shelby American over the next couple of weeks...) This is a 240Z selling for or slightly below market price, if you want it buy it. If not, drop it and find another but please make a decision and quit waffling!  

Edited December 18, 2013 by Tony D