The_Rookie Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Got this as a project car and pretty much a first car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rookie Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 1977 280z that hasn't been running since 86. I don't think it'd be a good idea to try and crank the motor as is, what should I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Wait I thought you had a 280zx? and to get it running just check all the fluids, spray some oil in the spark plug holes and let it sit overnight, double check the wiring and it should start right up assuming the enigne isn't already fubar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 2014 - 1986 = 28 years. That is much longer than most "oil the cylinders and go" cars have sat. If the gas is gone, the residue is probably tarred up in all of the fuel system components. I would pop the valve cover and see how the cam looks, take the plugs out and make sure no cylinders are full of water, drain the oil and look for water, check the distributor cap, drain the fuel system and flush new gas through the lines, etc. Depending on the weather and where it was stored, water can build up in unexpected places. Check the fuel hoses also, my old EFI hoses split under the hose clamps and started squirting fuel after a few months of driving on a car that had sat for a while. You might have some work ahead of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rookie Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 I sold the Zx Blu. Thanks for the tips guys, sounds like I've got something to do this week! Btw, what's the best way to clean out the gas tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superlen Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 +1 on your fuel system is kersplat. That's a looong time setting. -Start with dropping the tank and inspect/flush. -Next in line is a small filter in the inlet of the fuel pump. Just pitch it and splice a cheap plastic inline from the tank to the pump inlet. -The fuel damper I think may be ok, but check all the hoses back at the tank. -Don't put a new main fuel filter on it until you have ran the pump a while. Leave the old Filter on and just see what comes out. The old filter is trash for sure, but use it's last breath to save your new one. If you drop a fresh new one it at the first, you will just have to replace it in short order. -Once you get clean fresh fuel flowing to the rail, then check your pressure & confirm the FPR is doing it's job. -The fuel lines on the rail all need replacing & don't forget to put new vacuum line on the FPR to intake manifold connection. -The injectors will need cleaned/tested. - After all that you should have good fuel, next would be checking/cleaning the electrical connections on the EFI harness. Hopefully, the rats didn't eat most of it. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rookie Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 Thanks! Now, let's get to work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Strike- Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 The project 78' I am working on right now has been off the road since 1985. It needed a fuel pump to get running. I drained the tank, cleaned the injectors, fresh oil. Installed new pump, and a pre-filter to the pump. A gallon or so of fresh fuel, primed up the system, (changed around the plug wires, previous owner messed up the firing order) and it runs great... Now, onto the good stuff ;p From sitting so long, pretty much every suspension component needs to be replaced, all bushings are dry-rotted. So there's a little more involved than just a fuel system refresh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Lots of good suggestions here.. But really you need to look at your car and see what it needs. I've seen fuel systems gummed up solid with old old gas, and I've seen cars that've sat for 20 year that have liquid fuel still in the lines. Gas doesn't always gum up.. I would take loose the Fuel line after the Fuel filter in the engine compartment and see if anything flows. If the fuel is solid in that line then you've got a lot of work ahead of you. If it flows then you need to just get rid of the old nasty gas ( You can actually burn this later by adding it to your tank a gallon here and a gallon there once things are running. It's just not good to try to run solely old gas.) First I would not yet open the valve cover. Fort Worth is a pretty dry climate, but if it's sat that long, there could be some good rust in the cylinders. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just get a couple cans of WD-40 and pull the plugs, then load up the cylinders every day for a few days. DO NOT try to start the motor. Just get a big wrench and manually rock the motor crank back and forth till you can get it to turn. one you get that far, load up more WD and try to turn it around 360 degrees. if it's relatively smooth, you might have just been lucky. if you hear a lot or grinding noise, then you're probably going to need to take it apart and hone the cylinders. It would be cheaper at that point to replace the engine with something else. It really depends. If you have a borescope you can also see how they look before you go through that work. Assuming the engine turns okay, The very next thing will be to change the oil since the WD won't be good for it. Open the oil fill can and look in there to see if you can see the cam lobes and see if they're all rusty. A little surface rust is fine, but heavy rust is bad. If it's just a little surface. Then I'd not worry about it. So, assuming your fuel lines survived unclogged, and you've got the engine to turn manually and you've changed the oil. Next I'd batten up the plugs and with NEW gas in the tank, I'd give it a go. It might just start up. A lot will depend on why it was parked so long ago. You may still want to change the fuel filter too. The inside of your gas tank may be rusty. Assuming all that goes well, then next you'll really want to look at the safety items. Brakes first, then replace the seatbelts, then maybe look at shocks and bushings. The car doesn't look bad so in that at least you're lucky. You'll want to look it over for the common rust areas and figure where you want to go with those. The FSM (downloadable) can really help you if the issues are worse, such as if the gas had gummed up solid. The Haynes Manual for the 280Z (Ebay) is also pretty good. If your gas had solidified, it's not the end of the world, it's just a pain. It would mean all your fuel lines would need replaced, (easy to get) your fuel rail would need to be soaked and cleaned out, The injectors you could try to soak and clean, but would likely be easier to replace. the rubber seals would definitely need to be replaced. You fuel pump may be rebuilt (not too tough) or replaced, and of course the tank would need to be cleaned out. Once you do get it started I'd change the oil again after about an hour of running, because any rust will flow into the oil and start circulating. The filter would catch most of it, but you don't want to risk the engine after it's been revived. So don't be cheap, just change the oil/filter a 2nd time. These Engines are actually REALLY durable. So a little crud won't hurt them in the short term. Worst case, Engines are available cheap. just swap with something known good. We are here to dole out advice. In the end it's your car, you do what you think is the best course. You can ask us and we'll try to keep you from making the type of mistakes we've made, or from spending money going down a dead end. We love the Z cars and every one that we can keep on the road is a win in our book. So welcome to the S30 world. Phar **EDIT*** oh expect a lot of smoking due to the oil in the cylinders, it'll burn off relatively quickly. 15/20 min maybe.. Much more than that, you may have issues. after running a while, if you still have smoke, a Compression gauge can help you figure... Edited February 17, 2014 by Pharaohabq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 First I would not yet open the valve cover. Worst case, Engines are available cheap. just swap with something known good. At least - remove the filler cap and look at a cam lobe. Why turn the key and hope when you can know first? If the cam lobes are rusty, there's probably rust elsewhere. As for cheapness and availability, many people here are remembering from their 5 to 10 to 20 years of experience. But these engines are getting melted down in the wrecking yards at a pretty constant rate. Here in Oregon, and across the country, Schnitzer Steel has bought many wrecking yards (converting them to Pick-n-Pull brand) for steel supply and they do not distinguish between a classic and a piece of junk. They're all just an inventory number, to sit in the yard for a month or two then get crushed. Don't assume that you'll pick up a good running for cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) At least - remove the filler cap and look at a cam lobe. Why turn the key and hope when you can know first? If the cam lobes are rusty, there's probably rust elsewhere. As for cheapness and availability, many people here are remembering from their 5 to 10 to 20 years of experience. But these engines are getting melted down in the wrecking yards at a pretty constant rate. Here in Oregon, and across the country, Schnitzer Steel has bought many wrecking yards (converting them to Pick-n-Pull brand) for steel supply and they do not distinguish between a classic and a piece of junk. They're all just an inventory number, to sit in the yard for a month or two then get crushed. Don't assume that you'll pick up a good running for cheap. Oh, if you read my post I did say " open the oil fill cap and look in there..." Cept you're right, it seems I misspelled Cap as can.. my bad. My point was if you don't have to break any seals, don't. Once you start the path of opening things up, then you're getting into work you may not need to do on an old engine. As for engines, There's a lot around. check on the FS/Wanted here, Check Craigslist, Check your local Z Car club, Check Specialty Z Parts lots. They are available, but you're right, they're not getting any less rare. I could go get another engine this afternoon if I needed one, But that's here in NM, Land of the non-rusting Z's so, you're right. It may be harder to locate a good one, but they ARE still available, so if his old engine is bad, then it may be cheaper for him to pick up a 75-83 L28, and swap it in relatively easily. *Edit** in fact a quick Craigslist search found an engine in his area for $600. http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/pts/4311073525.html Edited February 17, 2014 by Pharaohabq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superlen Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Strike, If you put new urethane bushings on your front tension arms, be sure to just one one poly and one stock rubber bushing. Many, (including me) have had the tension rod actually snap from have all polyurethane bushings. I think it's just too tight and the poly holds the rod very rigid right near the bushing. The steel fatigues right at the bushing, then....snap. You can google for more info. Others have had success, but I didn't. Lenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Strike- Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Yeah, I was reading about that not too long ago, going to go with T3 components when the time comes Another thing for the OP to check would be the cooling system. I changed the water pump out on mine because I had a spare replacement, and figured it wouldn't hurt. The old pump was covered in a lot of corrosion, looked like barnacles growing on the damn thing. Definitely want to check everything over, and flush the system a few times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palauoriginal Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Z's are the best first cars. All the chicks dig em. Just be methodical with each major system you go through. If I were to do it again I would just do a 4 barrel conversion. The stock EFI can be tedious despite being so simple. Edit: also, I found PB blaster and wd-40 to be a life saver when resurrecting my Z Edited February 18, 2014 by palauoriginal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superlen Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Z cars in general just rock! They are super easy to work on, and when something does wear out or break, it's usually pretty quick to figure out whats going on. And the bottom end is almost bulletproof within reason of course. I do wish that an affordable crossflow head was available, but I understand why they aren't. Palau is correct that the stock EFI can be cantankerous, but I have been designing a true plug-n-play drop in replacement called HellFire that will begin shipping in May that completely solves all the EFI problems. It's completely configurable as well so you can modify your engine all you want with cams, heads, exhaust, map, maf, ect. And finally, you can actually SEE what coolant temperature the ECU is reading on your laptop. (or isnt because of a corroded CLT sensor connector which is pretty common on these cars) I don't want to step on this build thread, but I'm exicted about the HellFire and thought I'd share a little. I think it will prove to be a nice addition to the Z car community's bag of performance tricks. Lenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rookie Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 Thanks guys for all the help and suggestions!! I also need to find an air flow meter for it where could one be found? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rookie Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Will a 76 AFM fit on my 77? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldAndyAndTheSea Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The afm will fit physically..... BUT....... you must match the AFM to the ECU (electrically) Which I am pretty sure in your case the 77 AFM is not compatible with the 76 ECU. There is a list of the compatibility combinations somewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Actually, the main difference from 76 to 77 was that 77 and later stopped using the AFM fuel pump switch. I've had 75-78 AFMs on my 76 EFI system and they all work fine. Nissan even left the contacts in my 78 AFM, they just weren't used. So, in your case, you'd end up with vestigial fuel pump contacts. It's the ECU's where things can get odd. OAATS, I see that you flipped the years 76 and 77. He's asking about 76 on a 77, not vice-versa. A 77 on a 76 might not work if the pump contacts were gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldAndyAndTheSea Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Actually, the main difference from 76 to 77 was that 77 and later stopped using the AFM fuel pump switch. I've had 75-78 AFMs on my 76 EFI system and they all work fine. Nissan even left the contacts in my 78 AFM, they just weren't used. So, in your case, you'd end up with vestigial fuel pump contacts. It's the ECU's where things can get odd. OAATS, I see that you flipped the years 76 and 77. He's asking about 76 on a 77, not vice-versa. A 77 on a 76 might not work if the pump contacts were gone. Doh! Late night posting strikes again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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