zredbaron Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Long time no post! After 3 hours of searching HybridZ and google, I'm very surprised I didn't find what I was looking for. Said another way, I half-expect a reprimand for such a simple post! I'm the damn-the-cost bolt-in type: the type that doesn't mind (ok, painfully prefers) waiting to save up for the cost but avoids reinventing the wheel and/or refurbishing his competition-use parts as an automotive learning experience... I'm having a hard time finding a performance and/or tested solution. I've reviewed articles on refurbishment and hybridiZing non-S30 racks, but dagnabbit, I'm a quasi-purist and I want the S30 feel. I also choose to chase cars I have no business competing against (autocross... "run-whatcha-brung" XP). So, in short, what are the race-proven, tight, manual-as-it-came, boltable options? I've narrowed my online vendor searching to these two options, which seem identical save the repaint detail: http://www.carsteering.com/partview/Nissan/240Z/Manual_Steering_Rack/80~70090_R.html http://datsunpartsllc.com/cart/index.php?p=product&id=230&parent=11 Any other vendors? Any race shops I should send my core to? If self-refurbishment is my best bet, what is the competition-recommended rebuild thread/URL for me to print out for my trusted fabricators/mechanics? Anything I haven't thought of to ask? Thank you all! More and more as the years begin to noticeably tick by... Humbly, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rturbo 930 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 RebekahsZ had a thread on this recently - here it is: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/118168-steering-rack-parts-availability/ Maybe PM him to see what his experience was with the datsunpartsllc rack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Some of the parts (search Hybridz) for 240Z racks have been NLA for years. Call the vendors and ask them what parts were replaced and what exactly did they do to "remanufacture the rack". In the past I have purchased "rebuilt" racks only to find that they were as worn and sloppy as my old rack. It looked like all they did was repaint the rack and install new boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 My experience: I paid like $250 for the only "rebuilt" rack I could find. It was clean and had silver paint and new boots. The locknuts on the inner tie rods were all chewed up and unuseable. The inner tie rods felt good by hand but when I got an alignment the technician called me into the bay and showed me about 1/16" of play in the passenger side inner tie rod. The inner tie rods were not new. In an effort to find new inner tie rods, I have ordered a pair of 86 300zx inner tie rods that I think will work as a substitute for our NLA S30 inners. The threads that go into the outer tie rods are a bit longer (no one should complain about that) and there is only one part number, so no left and right. Replacing this worn part is on my winter list so I will post a write up on it when I figure out if that part will work, and which outer needs to be used for both sides. Otherwise, the rack is tight. The only other slack in my steering is in the steering shaft. Next time I will just find a replacement in the junkyard instead of paying someone to lie to me. We have politicians to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takayuki Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I'm going through a similar situation. I couldn't trust aftermarket reman. I haven't finished rebuilding my rack yet, but I was able to order new inner tie rods from rareparts.com http://shop.rareparts.com/smtp/shopdisplaycategories.asp?iyear=1974&imake=0041|NISSAN&imodel=1009|260Z&iproduct=0049|STEERING,%20GEAR,%20PUMP%20&%20COMPONENTS they only have right hand inner tie rods, but no problem, use two right hand out tie rods and should be no problem. Rack boots are still attainable and you can still buy pinion shaft bearings and seal from skf. As for the brass rack bushings, I'm going to do some experimenting. I ordered some some oil lite bronze bushings, and had my local machinist size it to my rack.... We will see how this goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I ordered from rare parts and the wrong part came in. Be sure to check what's inside the box before you pay and walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Great feedback, very much appreciated! It's definitely strange that after all these years there still isn't an aftermarket solution for this... For now, I'll likely stick with what I've got until I come across a better solution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) Oh, and I sent a request to Techno Toy Tuning for an aftermarket solution... [EDIT -- removed TTT's email address out of respect for their inbox getting spammed by web bots.] Edited October 14, 2014 by zredbaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socorob Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Maybe get in touch with Chris Alston Chassis Works. They make their racks in 1 inch length increments, so maybe they have a length that pretty close out the box. Just need to see the difference in diameter of the tube and where the steering shaft goes into it. http://www.cachassisworks.com/c-185-rack-street-machine-manual.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 I received a reply from Techno Toy Tuning: Making racks is pretty much outside our area of specialty, unfortunately. The inner tie rods are generally readily available from Rare Parts INC. They sell them at most auto parts stores. Gia & Gabriel Tylerwww.technotoytuning.com I ordered from rare parts and the wrong part came in. Be sure to check what's inside the box before you pay and walk. RebekahsZ, I assume you ordered the inner tie rods? Did they correct the error and send you acceptable replacements? Can anyone confirm the inner tie rods from Rare Parts are acceptable / good replacements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Maybe get in touch with Chris Alston Chassis Works. They make their racks in 1 inch length increments, so maybe they have a length that pretty close out the box. Just need to see the difference in diameter of the tube and where the steering shaft goes into it. http://www.cachassisworks.com/c-185-rack-street-machine-manual.aspx Very nice... I'll try and call them soon! (Unless anyone has already gone down this road?) This is definitely uncharted territory for this guy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I don't understand why you'd go to all that trouble for another manual rack. If you go aftermarket you're going to have to figure out how to mount it, and at that point you might as well optimize it for XP. Faster is a big one, and power is necessary once you have the faster ratio. I haven't run mine yet, but I do think it will pay off in XP to have a 75% quicker ratio, especially with the huge tires. http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/97073-woodward-power-steering-project/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) I don't understand why you'd go to all that trouble for another manual rack... you might as well optimize it for XP. Ha! No doubt, you're absolutely right, Jon. [Very nice thread, by the way! I'm learning a lot...] I honestly don't "belong" in XP, so I doubt I will ever be competitive against a true XP car. As you may or may not recall and/or be aware, I refuse to cut my fenders (beyond my subtle fender cuts). I'll be lucky to get away with 245/255 tires. My NA L6, no matter how in the weeds I get, will rarely be able to compete with the big V8s at minimum class weight, even if I did have the 50% more tire my competitors possess. The winded version: A few years ago, frustrated with not being competitive, I wrestled with my attachment to my "show car" appearance. I envied the miata owners (etc) simply because they had someone to compete against, so I upgraded my suspension and lightened my car. I promptly got my rear-end handed to me at the northeast SCCA Region Championship [race video]... but I received high compliments about my car's sound standing out against the other XP cars. Then the Evolution Performance Driving School came to town [lessons learned video] and more than one instructor provided unsolicited comments on the priceless nature of my Z's fun-factor. Then the car won a local people's choice car show. Through others' compliments, I released my attachment to being competitive and I fell in love with the S30 again with new eyes. I wanted to honor it and continue to build my dream car and not worry about maximizing my class' allowances. The short version: I want to struggle to tame the beast more than I want to win. I'm very much a fan of your build, Jon. I can't wait to chase your XP creation with mine one day... (gauntlet thrown on ground!) Besides... I doubt I will ever see an autocross course as tight as I did back in Alabama / Gulf Coast Region [race video that makes your point for you], so I figure if I could "manage" manual steering on that course with a streetable setup I figure can "manage" normal courses with a full race setup, sans tire width. Or so I tell myself anyway.... Edited October 14, 2014 by zredbaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I'm not sure how to get Rare Parts to fix their part numbers. I think there are actually two versions of the inner tie rod, so there must be several different rack versions too. One is female and screws on the OD of the rack. Those inners are actually rebuildable and can be cut apart, adjusted and re-spot welded. They have no flats on them in order to install them with a wrench, but i have used a pipe wrench on them in the past. That is the inner tie rod that Rare Parts has. The inner tie rod version that I currently have has a male 16mm thread that threads into the ID of the rack. It is non-rebuildable and has 4 flats for a wrench to tighten them and a little round tin "lock washer" that gets staked like a safety against them unscrewing. While talking about racks, if doing a major chassis re-work like JMortensen, it would be cool if somehow the crossmember could be modified to allow easy removal of the oil pan for bottom end inspection/repairs. One of these winters I have GOT to build a new steering shaft. Mine is pretty tight but I know the needle bearings are bone dry, and the thing has about a million miles on it. It's becoming a real safety concern for me, even if it just neurosis. I run 5 degrees of caster with 9" of hot Hoosier R6 contact patch up front, 10" someday. Turn 6 of AMP has one of the hardest braking zones leading into it and the turn-in occurs in a transition from heavy braking going downhill to an uphill section leading to an off-camber crest. This weekend when I did my best version of trail braking, I felt like I was lifting the entire weight of the car on that front outside whee on turn inl. My arms were killing me after just a few laps. That electric power steering started to seem like a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Just watched your autocross video. That's not an autocross-that's murder! Such a tight course! I can see why you are pissed. I think that would kill anybody without power steering where you could one-hand wind it with a necker-knob! You need to find a club with a bigger facility and some Corvette owners who set up the course. Who set that Taco Bell parking lot course up? A paraplegic in a wheelchair? Likely a miata or mini driver... Check out the Wiregrass Region who at least used to use the airfield at Ft Rucker, or come up to Huntsville where 70-80 mph is no problem and uses either an old airport or a stadium lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Haha! I used to race at Wiregrass too! [2007 video] These two regions are where I had my first autocross season, so when I watch these videos all I see are mistakes, poor hand positions and a lack of maturity! Lol. Wiregrass / Hunter's Field gripped like no other, but it ate the crap out of our tires...I often end up with my foot in my mouth. Assisted steering is starting to sound like one of them.... Edited October 15, 2014 by zredbaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 That's where I started too when I was in flight school. We pounded AH-1s into that concrete all week on hydraulics-off and no-tail-rotor landings, then raced there on the weekends. I always loved their no corner working format. It was great and you didn't spend the whole day standing around in the sun. THAT is what a course should look like. I loved that racing surface. It was very in-regulated back then and so much fun instead of a Nazi fest, like do many SCCA clubs are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Hah! It never ceases to amaze me how often HybridZ members cross paths in unexpected ways. I was in Pensacola at NAS Whiting Field for flight school at the time. Bell's Jet Ranger was a hell of a little tweety bird to learn rotary flight on... the autocrossing was my escape from the books. And by that, of course, I mean GO NAVY, BEAT ARMY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Real men call them OH-58s. I used to fly D-Models at Ft Bragg. Get a haircut! I quit supporting the Army team when a couple of old girlfriends from the Class of 1976 got married in the Cadet Chapel-Im so done. Blowing off my 25 year reunion this month. I'm screwing up your thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Haha, we both are guilty of boring the other readers. Whoops. Sorry about that, guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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