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supernova_6969

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blackbell...

 

so you are saying that the issue is not so much that the compressor can't flow enough, but hat the wastegate isn't strong enough to sustain that much boost...

 

would'nt that be very simply resolved by having a boost controller valve?  the stock wastegate actuator wouldn't ever see boost until it would get hit with the full whatever boost you choose, which would open it right away?

 

anyone to weight in on this?  with info or some personal experience?

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blackbell...

 

so you are saying that the issue is not so much that the compressor can't flow enough, but hat the wastegate isn't strong enough to sustain that much boost...

 

would'nt that be very simply resolved by having a boost controller valve?  the stock wastegate actuator wouldn't ever see boost until it would get hit with the full whatever boost you choose, which would open it right away?

 

anyone to weight in on this?  with info or some personal experience?

 

Take a look through this thread, especially Tony's comments in the 4th post...

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/77587-what-is-compressor-surge-explanation-within/?hl=stonewall&do=findComment&comment=738318

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Mmmm. I know im highjacking my own thread here with this train of thought, but i'll entretain it so we can close the case...

So from the thread timz mentionned, seems like i was suggesting that the turbo hit its stonewall (too much engine flow for the turbo size, essentially). But i'm not certain that's the only thing you were pointing out, although i don't understand how surge would happen at wot while on the dyno.. I think i'm missing the point i'm supposed to get.

Still talking about how blackbell's post talks about a car boosting 18psi 'till 3500rpm, then loosing boost to 10-12 psi. I don't get how a weak spring would allow going to 18 in the first place (maybe overboost, but not by 6psi?)and how a boost controler couldn't just deal with the wastegate problem...

Please illuminate me. :-)

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hey Xnke.

 

Do you mean that as the RPM rises, the boost diminishes cause the engine breathes in so much air that the turbine can't give enough to maintain high boost?  Would that be possible between 3800 and 4500 only (not even 1000 rpm, for a very significant drop in boost)?

 

thanks!

Yes, exactly that.

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Mmmm. I know im highjacking my own thread here with this train of thought, but i'll entretain it so we can close the case...

So from the thread timz mentionned, seems like i was suggesting that the turbo hit its stonewall (too much engine flow for the turbo size, essentially). But i'm not certain that's the only thing you were pointing out, although i don't understand how surge would happen at wot while on the dyno.. I think i'm missing the point i'm supposed to get.

Still talking about how blackbell's post talks about a car boosting 18psi 'till 3500rpm, then loosing boost to 10-12 psi. I don't get how a weak spring would allow going to 18 in the first place (maybe overboost, but not by 6psi?)and how a boost controler couldn't just deal with the wastegate problem...

Please illuminate me. :-)

Yes - it was the stonewall part, same as Xnke mentioned.  

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Ok. So we're all in agreement. Back to dybo results! Thanks for helping and clarifying things, btw.

That said its interesting to see that the stock engine with its stock turbo can make good power on a very fat torque curve EVEN THOUGH it's indersized.... I'm curious what a similar sized moden turbo could do (more efficient, different blade design)..

Edited by supernova_6969

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Blackbell, make certain you post your results here. ESPECIALLY if all you do is change the turbo and retune it.

Knowing everything else is the same, it would be a really awesome opportunity to see the difference made by the turbo alone, both in top trq/power but also to see the difference in curves, to see where the power comes on....

Edited by supernova_6969

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Here is a race motor I built a few years ago. Unfortunately it had a crack somewhere in the block that when the coolant temperature exceeded around 180F, caused the radiator to overflow, eventually pumping all of the coolant out of the system. 

 

Here are the specs:

- F54 block 1mm overbore

- Bob Sharp prepped E31 head, shaved, 37cc chambers, too many mods to list

- Custom Isky cam

- Cosworth pistons, 12cc dome

- Carrillo 133mm rods

- 13.5:1 CR

- Fully balanced

- Mikuni 44mm phh taper bored to 50mm 

 

Dyno was a Superflow engine dyno.

 

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t177/psanders240/clubcar/th_VIDEO0004.mp4

post-274-0-23437900-1457639418_thumb.jpg

post-274-0-58640500-1457639432_thumb.jpg

post-274-0-23996800-1457639639_thumb.jpg

Edited by z-ya

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These are some old dyno sheets of a 3 liter stroker turbo motor .

 

SDS EMS                                                                             AEM EMS

420cc 036 injectors                                                              72lb Siemens Deka Injectors + 2 160lb injectors in the                                                                                                                               intake track using 

230 whp wet shot of N20                                                      methanol as 30% of the total fuel under boost.

Stock Toyota CT26 turbo                                                      T67 Precision turbo  .81 exhaust with a P-trim

 

N42 Head mildly ported                                                         Professionally ported N42 head

WEB custom ground turbo cam                                             Non EGR N42 intake cut, ported, welded.

JE 88mm pistons                                                                    BRC 88.5mm forged pistons.

Cunningham 133mm rods

VO7 Diesel Crank                                                                        

N42 Block race prepped.                                                                   dyno_T67.jpg

lastscan_dyno_535.jpg

Edited by 510six

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Hi.
Loooking at the chart, that engine is a beast! Must feel like a rocket from 2500rpm onwards!

Im not certain i understand your post completely, though..
Are you talking about engines, or one engine with two different confoguration (n42 mild port vs n42 pro port, one or the ither turbo...).
Sorry if im being dense....
Thanks for posting thought. And i appreciate the amount of details...

 

 

 

****EDIT: oh crap. I was looking at it on my phone originally.  It made VERY little sense.  just looked at it on a computer and it makes all the sense in the world.  thanks for the additional data though!!  

Edited by supernova_6969

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Actually, I should have been clearer , same bottom end one with a small turbo and a large shot of nitrous using 110 oct. race gas( with the N20) and a mildly ported head and intake . On the nitrous it was a low 11 high 10 second car.

 

The second with a well ported N42 head and intake with large exhaust valves  and a T67 turbo with 17 pounds of boost and a better exhaust  the boost came on VERY hard at about 3800 rpm. 91oct with methanol as 30% of the total fuel.. Using sequential injection via the AEM the car delivered 31mpg with a 6 speed transmission provided you stayed out of boost ......

 

My current project is a all stock parts N42 with a upgraded Toyota CT26 (57 trim) with a stock T5 transmission. The plan is to use the stock wiring harness with an AEM series 1 EMS using an adapter harness . I would like to have  Flex Fuel capabilities with 91 oct or E85 and I am looking for a conservative 300rwh. 

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Datsun 240z -73

180 hp/235nm to the wheels.

Have not done a proper tuning but it runs great.

Should be some more power to be had with a good tune.

L28 N42 block and late E88 head

Bored +1mm (0.40 over)

Itm flattop Pistons with Hastings rings.

Head has bigger valves and steel seats like the N42 head and has been shaved to get the chambers to 44cc but no porting has been done.

Msa stage 3 cam kit

Harada shokai intake

Triple Fajs 45s (weber copy's)

Msa 6-1 header and 2 1/2" system

Zx dizzy and Msd 6025 box

Cr should be at 10 and runs pump fuel (95 or 98 oct here)

R200 3:9 and zx 5 speed boxpost-32020-0-41456500-1472897339_thumb.jpeg

trim.066159A4-EB21-464F-B1C5-7E2B41CAF212.MOV

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Ok....

 

Here is my motor prior to May.

 

The setup

 

1975 N42/N42 bone stock

Megasquirt 3Pro for the brains

LS1 coils for coil on plug

Custom Intake from the group buy (Would be great for a turbo build but is just meh for NA as the runners ended up being too short, though it flowed well)

44LB RC Injectors (will be playing with E85 next year).

83 optical cam sensor for cam trigger so I could run full sequential injection and spark

MSA 6-1 header with 2.5 inch exhaust

 

With this Setup we were at 158hp...

 

The Bad

 

Just before Solo Nationals we put it back on the Dyno to try and figure out why it felt so down on power.  only 112hp...  we got it up to 141hp and called it good enough to race...

 

#4 cylinder is down to 110psi where the rest of the cylinders are at 160~170.  Put a little oil in the number 4 cylinder and compression was 210psi so it is the rings.

 

75n42n42.jpg

 

 

I am trying to understand this. What gives you so much power for something that is so stock?

 

Just the header and intake? Does the MS give you anything? What did you do to go from 112 to 140?

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