Tony D Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Listen to John Coffey, PLEASE! Line it up at TDC and START THERE. Your constant shortcutting wastes everybody's time. Try listening to what you're being told for ONCE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I suggest you start over. Put cylinder #1 exactly at TDC and go from there. ^^YES,YES,YES!^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainboyd Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 I'll try to be the better person here by responding like a respectful adult and not get upset over silly things. I think you might be misunderstanding what I'm trying to say or maybe I'm just not being clear. I did start over last night by dropping the oil pump AND lining up the dot AND making sure the motor is at TDC (why wouldn't I start from the beginning when I just admitted a few posts back that taking shortcuts is where I went wrong?...). BUT, when I check the timing with the timing gun it still shows that the notch is way off. Just past the 30 mark like I have been saying. Now because it's off I would believe it would be safe to ask what would you suggest I do to "fix" the timing? Is that OK to ask? What I just SIMPLY asked/suggested in my last post is if turning the shaft one tooth a certain rotation would work. Or should I leave it alone because the motor seems to be running fine to me. Ecclesiastes 7:9 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) Don't get distracted. Tony D often assumes the worst and misses the details. It was obvious from your latest posts that you did go back to square one, properly. He might come back with some defensive comments, so be ready. Add an addendum to your verse, or pick another one. I like the one you chose though, it works on the internet.. The hints he was giving are about the gear on the drive shaft. It's a press fit and can slip. If it did you might find that adjusting a tooth one way puts you on one side of the timing mark tab, and one tooth the other way puts you on the other side. I'm just guessing, I don't know how many degrees one tooth gives, you'd have to do some math. Don't forget that the distributor turns at half crank speed. It sounds like your saying that timing is too advanced and can't be retarded. So you would want to rotate the CAS wheel in the direction of rotation so that spark happens later. The CAS hole hits the light beam later. While you have it out, check the gear for a mark also and see if it lines up with a mark on the shaft. I'm just guessing again, but I seem to remember looking at some later shafts that had that. Engine parts are made to be assembled by line workers so often have extra markings. You might also, before you spend too much time on it, try removing the clamping screw so the CAS can move farther and setting timing correctly for a test run. Use a small c-clamp or some vise-grips temporarily in place of the screw. To your earlier point of "if it works doesn't mess with it". You might find that getting the mark on the tab doesn't work for you anyway. Edited October 28, 2015 by NewZed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 No, the HINT (do I clomp my foot) is unclear STILL. The Obtaining of TDC NEVER involves the use of "the mark on the pulley" So, if you have INDEED verified TDC using (AS YOU HAVE STATED) "the mark on the pulley" and not PROPERLYused a good TDC Reference point such as piston stop (not just "rabbit ears and the pulley") then INDEED you may be 30 degrees OR MORE off.... And everybody here knows the outer timing marks on an L28 Crank Pulley NEVER twist, shift, or move! And THAT is why I keep referring to John Coffey's post. The issue here is the inability to comunicate exactly what was done at first go, the procedure and methodology used to give the arrived at numbers. It has been my experience when these details are glossed over, it results in repetition of work. Assuming competence is a fatal flaw these days, assuming someone actually DID 'do it exactly like the book says' in the face of comments otherwise is simply foolish. UNTIL IT'S SAID, YOU CAN ONLY ASSUME. indeed, you have again come back with another answer that said nothing other than confirmed that you likely haven't properly determined the TDC on the engine. At least by your own words. And those are all we have to go by.... If others assume you did it right, well, good for them. I get paid not to believe guys when they say 'the did everything just like the book says' and in my 31 years of experience...they lied. Not telling the truth in that particular instance either through ignorance or blatany misdirection is the rule, not the exception. If we're quoting the bible...I like Proverbs 24:30-34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainboyd Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 Just an FYI so its more clear for you, when checking my TDC I also made sure to see if the actual piston #1 was at the top by taking the spark plug out and simply looking through the hole with a flashlight and turning the engine by hand. I didnt think I would have to go into so much detail for you about how I made sure I was in top TDC but whatever makes you happy inside... So yesterday morning I was able to work on the car a little. What I tried was kind of what you mentioned NewZed by removing the clamping screw so that I can move further. When I started the car and waited till it warm up I then checked the timing. The mark was on 30 and the car was running "ok" then turned the distributor to where the mark went to 20 and the car was running better. Then moved it to 10 and it was running "ok" again. Then moved to 0 and it got worse. So then I moved it back to 20 where I saw the best results and by surprise I was still able to use the holes to hold it in place. However, I am not sure where the timing mark should be on these engines if completely stock. What do you guys think? Tony D, I am super happy that I was able to get you to read a few verses from the bible and on top of that share it with all of us. If anything, thats probably the best thing that can come out of this topic I started . Just remeber though, you can't just share a few verse and "like" only a few verses if you dont live by all the versis (Holy Bible). So if quoting something from the bible I would assume you live by the bible. So please try acting like it in life and on the internet please. Patients, kindness, slow to anger, just a few examples. anyways I dont want to start preaching. Let me know what you guys think of leaving it at the 20 mark or messing around with it more?!?! Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 "I am not sure where the timing mark should be on these engines if completely stock." There's this other book I prefer much better than the bible. It's called the FSM, and there is a chapter and verse that covers that very situation. When people say they reference the pulley mark for anything, and complain how it's running.....Pointing out the fact that the rubber degrades and that pulley slips is something you don't think you would have to do either. But if you had checked TDC with a piston stop, you would know the TDC mark was correct, and using a dial advance timing light set to FSM Idle Advance Setting, use your known good TDC Mark to verify your timing was indeed correct. Proverbs 12:24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgsheen Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I've always liked the "20 mark" for a turbo engine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainboyd Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 Wow thanks for the encouraging verse from Proverbs! I'm really glad you notice my determination on getting the car running and not just being lazy and giving up or having someone else fix it. It's good to know someone recognizes that, especially from you. Thanks Tony D However, if you think FSM is better than the Bible then all these verses from you are nothing but hypocrisy. Galatians 6:3 & Titus 1:16 Also, I assume you don't really know anything about the Bible and probably just search on the Web for something to your interest against me. How do I know? Because you lack to simply read and live by the verse before and after Proverbs 12:24..... BUT, just in case I'm wrong about you here is another verse that maybe you should also consider living by. Especially when trying to be the "tuff guy" in front of a computer. Proverbs 15:1 Jude 1:16 Thanks cgsheen. I think I'll keep it at the 20 mark for now. And since my original question has been resolved I think I'm done with this thread and don't need to add anymore to it, thanks everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Don't get distracted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Indeed, in this case the FSM is the bible, my son. You disregard it, reveal the inevitable outcome! Deuteronomy 10:16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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