seattlejester Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 ^That tune looks nice and conservative, definitely some room to lean it out as you auto tune it, but as is very good buffer room for a sudden lean spike or something. I've never really messed around with timing. Those decimal values, are they extrapolated or are you calculating them out using a formula/experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 There are so many settings involved and one wrong setting in the tune could cause massive problems so that is why megasquirt says to do that. I think more then anything it forces you to find someone who has a similar setup so you can bounce ideas off of them. The important thing is to look over the values and see if they make sense. Like noticing that it is set for a 2L with 0cc injectors should definitely ping something as wrong and should be corrected even if the ms injection setting was correct. For what it was worth the AFR table and ignition values didn't look off. I have a sneaking suspicion that was probably similar to what I ran on my base tune before I started auto tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerloZ Posted April 14, 2017 Author Share Posted April 14, 2017 datalog merloZ3.zip Uhhhh. Ok so back inside sadly. First off my timing light just shit the bed. arrrggg it never ends. And secondly i said screw it and tried to start it. i put the fuses to the fuel injectors back in and... no fuel. at all. This is with Chickenmans tune. looks fine to me. am i missing something. heres the data log. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerloZ Posted April 14, 2017 Author Share Posted April 14, 2017 There are so many settings involved and one wrong setting in the tune could cause massive problems so that is why megasquirt says to do that. I think more then anything it forces you to find someone who has a similar setup so you can bounce ideas off of them. The important thing is to look over the values and see if they make sense. Like noticing that it is set for a 2L with 0cc injectors should definitely ping something as wrong and should be corrected even if the ms injection setting was correct. For what it was worth the AFR table and ignition values didn't look off. I have a sneaking suspicion that was probably similar to what I ran on my base tune before I started auto tuning. I got both the tune and the tables off hybrid z in the thread for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerloZ Posted April 14, 2017 Author Share Posted April 14, 2017 Also keep in mind my car ran on the original tune i posted up, not good at all after 3000 rpm it backfired every spark and acted almost as a rev limiter. my afr ran at about 10.3-13.5 . then the next day i tried to start it and instead of starting it just instantly flooded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) Chickenman. im sorry for being so uneducated. I used someone elses tune because when i clicked create new tune, tunerstudio basically yelled at me and told me its a bad idea. it said warning creating a tune from scratch is not a good idea you may want to start with a similar setup. So please understand im just trying to listen to what everything is telling me and it seems as if im running in circles. but im glad i have a genious like you to tell me what to actually to do. No worries man. I'm certainly no genius. At 17 you are doing great. It's a long process. I'm 63 and still learning every day. Regarding no fuel pressure after last test. Walpro 255's draw a LOT of amps. You may have blown the FP fuse or even the factory FP relay. Factory relay can't handle the amps that a Walpro draws. You usually have to wire in a 40 Amp Continuous Duty Bosch relay. Use genuine Bosch relay as some of the aftermarket stuff is junk. Edited April 15, 2017 by Chickenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 Also keep in mind my car ran on the original tune i posted up, not good at all after 3000 rpm it backfired every spark and acted almost as a rev limiter. my afr ran at about 10.3-13.5 . then the next day i tried to start it and instead of starting it just instantly flooded. Could be some sort of hardware issue going on as well.... Juts thinking out loud and trying to think of what would cause misfires. Are trigger wires from dizzy routed well away from HT leads and coil? Also trigger wires should not be run parallel or zip tied to any 12v wire. Can cause signal noise. Ignition boxes ( if your'using one ) should be mounted well away from ECU. CDI boxes like MSD are particularly bad for EMI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 Also where the fuel pressure gauge comes into play. Do you have fuel pressure while cranking? Have a laptop that shows duty cycle to confirm injectors are being asked to fire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) Just looked at Data Log from post #43. Looks like a whole bunch of electrical noise is going on. Edit 1: Looks like no injector Pulse either. Was engine running with this data log? Edit 2: MerloZ . Just curious. What are you using for a coil driver? Some sort of external module, CDI box or does your MS2 have the optional BIP373 coil driver. If BIP373, shouldn't spark output be on D14??? Edited April 15, 2017 by Chickenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 ^That tune looks nice and conservative, definitely some room to lean it out as you auto tune it, but as is very good buffer room for a sudden lean spike or something. I've never really messed around with timing. Those decimal values, are they extrapolated or are you calculating them out using a formula/experience? I set the high and low values in relevant columns, then use the Interpolate function to smooth all values in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerloZ Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 I have fuel pressure... and my fuel pump is working idk wheere u read its not but it is. i have a BIP373 and from what i know its js10 but its definately possible i read somethig wrong. Engine was not running i just cranked it over a few times. And like i said i am not getting any fuel... at all none. Not sure why but i have pressure. And my injector fuses are in and good. I dont have any ignition boxes. The wiring for an l28et dizzy is a 12v wire so not sure what u mmean by cant be close to a 12v wire. And the dizzy wiring is about 6 inches from the ignotion coil on the closest point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) I have fuel pressure... and my fuel pump is working idk wheere u read its not but it is. i have a BIP373 and from what i know its js10 but its definately possible i read somethig wrong. Engine was not running i just cranked it over a few times. And like i said i am not getting any fuel... at all none. Not sure why but i have pressure. And my injector fuses are in and good. I dont have any ignition boxes. The wiring for an l28et dizzy is a 12v wire so not sure what u mmean by cant be close to a 12v wire. And the dizzy wiring is about 6 inches from the ignotion coil on the closest point. i put the fuses to the fuel injectors back in and... no fuel. at all. That sentence was why I thought the Fuel Pump was not working. Never mind the question about the Spark Output. Using D14 was on one of the drop down menu's in Decoder Wheel settings... but I think it's a misprint. All other MS Extra instructions say to use JS10. Edit: Confirmed it's a misprint in drop down menu. Archived Instructions for older build used D14. The 12v wire to the Dizzy CAS assembly handles milliamps. You don't want to run the trigger wires close to higher amperage 12v wires such as the injector 12v feeds, the ignition coil 12v lead or any main 12v power leads. That can give cross talk. Edited April 15, 2017 by Chickenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) May have found something. Nominal Dwell in Ignition settings may be too low. Was set at 1.8ms in tune you downloaded. Guy may have been using a fast saturation coil like a Crane E-Coil. Should be around 3.0 ms for a standard coil ( Canister oil filled ) Pull the coil dizzy lead, crank it over and see how strong of a spark you get with setting at 1.8ms. If it is very weak it is likely the dwell is too low. If you have a good spark then leave it alone If spark is weak, change " Nominal Dwell " to 2.5 to 3.0ms. Start off low then slowly add time ( .2ms per change is good ) . Burn and cycle ignition. Then repeat spark quality test. Spark should be much stronger now. Coil saturation times vary greatly. Older style coils tend to be slower charging. You don't want to go too high though, as you can over heat the Coil and the Coil Driver ( BIP373 ) Spark duration of 1.5ms should be fine. DIY has an article on the BIP373 where they discuss coil dwell. They have a simple method to check if you've gone too high with dwell. The BIP373 do have built in thermal protection, so they won't burn out. They'll simply shut down. Here's the link to the article and the pertinent excerpt from the article: https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/other/bosch-bip373-ignition/ The proper way to set dwell is with a scope, using the trick we’re about to share as a backup. As a ‘quick and dirty’ method of setting dwell without a scope we recommend checking the temperature of the BIP373s while slowly increasing dwell. Maybe start at 1.2-1.5ms and increase it .2ms at a time while idling the car – if they become too warm to the touch, back the dwell off a bit until they stabilize at ambient temp or barely above. Check it again after running the car at different RPMs to verify the same results. They shouldn’t run hot all the time… Edited April 15, 2017 by Chickenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkRev Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) Jumping into this really late. Thank you for posting your datalog. Your data log shows no Duty cycle/PW during cranking at 180 rpm (excluding what looks like a priming pulse) and your TPS is jumping all over the place. Are you pressing and releasing the throttle like crazy when you are cranking? Something seems off here, the TPS is going nuts and it seems that it never gets to flood clear, but your PW is acting like it is. Edited April 15, 2017 by AkRev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) Yes, I noticed that as well in post #49. I'd like to see some Trigger logs and Synch error logs. MerloZ, can you try running those? They are in a drop down box for logging types. I think you've lost your Trigger and Synch signals completely, Thta would explain the injectors not firing. Chcekl the spark at coil lead. I'm betting you have no spark either. Check your trigger wiring for any bad connections or grounds. BTW all grounds from the ECU should be to the engine block or cylinder heads. Normally sensor grounds all go back and ground through the ECU. Any sensors that use a separate ground ( not back thru ECU ) should bge grounded to the same point on the engine as the ECU. This is called a " Star " ground and keeps the ground loop as small as possible. This reduces electrical noise. All the sources in your data log look to have a lot of interference and noise. Edited April 15, 2017 by Chickenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 MerloZ ( what's your real name ? I'm Richard ) . There is also a slight possibility that something got corrupted in the .msq files when they were being downloaded either at your end or my end. I copied your original Tune you posted here, then corrected the errors in the Fuel Calculations and modified the maps. Nothing " should " have changed that would affect it not starting. But you never know with Windoze. As a last resort, load up your original tune that ran crappy and see if it tries to start. However, it's more than a coincidence that the car died with that tune as well and has never run since?? Is that correct? Could be a hardware issue. Do you have any logs from when it was running? Even if it was running crappy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerloZ Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 The tps was boucing because i was blipping the throttle. I was just trying to crank it. I didnt realise there are different types of logging. My common ground is on the firewall so ill change that i guess. And i think my dizzy wiring is ziptied to the injector wires. My real name is Morgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerloZ Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 I think the car died and never ran again because it just kept flooding but the first and second time i ran it the plugs were dry and clean. I have no data logs from when it did run. I didnt know that was important last week lol. I will connect the common grount to the engine and dissconect the zip ties on the harness. Then i will test the coil and dwell however i cant start it so ill just crank it. Shouldnt affect stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerloZ Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 Im out in the garage now. Just tested spark from coil off the tunes chickenman gave me. It was great looking sparks. Then the last spark went through my body now it doesn want to spark nearly as often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Yeah... send us a data log of the Sync Errors and Trigger Log while cranking. May as well throw in a Tooth log as well. Do you have any Noid lights for testing the injector pulse. These are really cheap. Usually only a couple of bucks at Napa or Autozone. Did you get a JimStim with your MS ECU? This is a test simulator for the MS. Can uncover a lot of tricky problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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