2JZ engine build question

[M_Dragan]

Hello, I am seriously considering a 2JZ swap for my already Chevy 350 swapped 1973 240z. I have a question though, The 2JZGE and 2JZGTE are wildly different in price and I was wondering if I could purchase a 2JZGE because they're a lot cheaper and build it over time to the spec of the 2JZGTE. From the research i have done, the blocks are essentially the same and since I would be rebuilding the GTE anyway if I bought that one, this seems like it might be better. Any thought? (Sorry if this has already been posted I didn't know what to search for when looking for this specific question)

[dexter72]

Yes you can do that to save money. You just need to figure out how you want to run the engine once you get to that point.  You have plenty of options on how you want to do and rebuild a 2J...

 

You can do a Front Facing Intake on the Na 2J also, instead of the cross over intake..

 

You can just turbo the N/A and make it a Nat 2J

 

You can put a GTE Head on an N/a block, so you can run the GTE intake and exhaust parts.

 

I bought a Junkyard 2JZGE cheap, rebuilt it, and turbo'd it... 

[M_Dragan]

I think I'm going to try and put the GTE head on the GE. I might to turbo, but at this point in time I'm not looking for insane hp numbers. Maybe 400 - 600 max. What would that take for this engine?

[seattlejester]

My thoughts on the ge vs gte

 

"Honestly I think if you have modest goals the GTE is a better option, don't have to spend money on turbo's/manifolds/injectors etc etc.

 

You have to lean on the little twins pretty hard once you start getting above 400hp from what it seems like so if you are above modest, or think you will be in the area above modest, a single setup starts looking like a good idea at that point since you have to buy a manifold/turbo/injectors anyway a GE could be a savings, although if you don't have the ignition setup and such I think the cost still favors a GTE.

 

I don't think the GE is better then the GTE like Bean seems to imply, it just has financial merits at certain points for dexter72 and given our turbo motors that we had prior I think it was a good route. For someone coming in fresh I am not so sure it would be.

 

It is an interesting thing to dissect, hard to get rid of the motivation behind each party though. For the budget people a bandaided 2jz-ge with ebay parts could be done for less then the cost of a 2jzgte. For the power people throwing lots of money it almost makes no difference where you start. For people in the middle it really can shift either way based on a few small choices and I think for some people that is hard to say as that would mean their choice can be "wrong." It is interesting to look at."

 

 

 

Dexter and I both went the 2jzge NA-T route. He absolutely kicked my ass in the budget aspect of it, granted I made some very specific choices that prevented me from going down the same route. 

 

Above all the NA-T route isn't nearly as plug and play. Unless you plan on running a distributor you are going to need aftermarket spark control, the GE has very limited manifold options unless you are willing to use ebay parts or shell out for the really expensive stuff. With a GTE you can literally bolt in and plug and play. TechT swap kit, Wiring Specialties wiring harness, CX swap radiator and such.

 

So depends on your power goals and fabrication/install capabilities. Under 400hp, buying swap kit and wiring kit then GTE. If you are a more DIY person, know how to wire, have access to a welder and those kind of tools, then GE can be done for less. If you are going over 400hp, really doesn't matter, probably going to take the block apart, some people have gone up to like  600hp on a stock ge block, but a lot of the higher hp guys will go GTE internals in their GE block if not just go with forged components.

 

I will say if you are opening the block then have someone who knows these motors work on them, crank walk can happen if you don't install the crank right, cleaning out crank really well is important and requires more then just a solvent bath.

[M_Dragan]

So the GTE is going to be cheaper? I'd like to know how dexter did his swap if it was budget.

Edited August 11, 2017 by M_Dragan

[Geno750]

If I were to go GE I'd just get an aftermarket intake manifold and exhaust manifold, then spend money on forged pistons and rods. The resulting engine would be more than capable. As someone who's been down the path of swapping 2JZ heads, it's not worth it. Go for the whole engine.

[dexter72]

How I did my Budget swap:  Build thread is in the Toyota engine section. Wanted to show people they can do this swap for less than 5 Grand. Lol

 

Bought a $150 or less, junkyard engine.. Ebay Manifolds, Ebay turbo, Steel braided fuel lines from a 4cyl, late 90's Saturn. Megasquirt 2 Stand alone. 36-1 trigger wheel, Ford EDIS 6 ignition. Replaced the engine bearings, honed the cylinders, replaced the rings, 3 angle valve job with valve seals. W-58 trans. Welded in engine mount brackets. Spacers for engine mounts.

 

I parted out the L-28 Nat engine and trans that was in the car.

 

Setup has been running fine for over 2 years now.. Fuel pump is going out right now so will replace it with a Bosch 044 unit when the summer temps here in Phoenix drop under 100 degrees.

 

If you have any more questions feel free to message me...

[makaofox]

I went GE-T. I got the motor for $500. Far cheaper than the GTE but the distributor will limit the size turbo you want. Unless you get a manifold that brings the turbo back and lower. Front facing manifolds are easy to come by and make life easier. The wiring is different and may get pricey but its not bad with a standalone. Bigger injectors are needed regardless so i went with ID1000s. My goal was only 400-450hp which im very close too. I put down about 365 wit 10psi on a holset turbo. 

 

All you truly need to go NA-T is 

OEM twin turbo GTE head gasket

ARP head studs

for safe measure not that expensive ARP main studs

for safe measure not that expensive ARP rod bolts

Bigger injectors and fuel rail, I would just get a front facing manifold its easier.

Standalone ECU

 

Thats all you really need. You might need a MSD ignition box if you go for bigger power or you can do coil on plug conversion and delete the distributor but thats alot more work. Its really cheap to build a NA-T. 

 

Also consider i blew up my na-t TWICE and its still cheaper than if i went GTE lol.

[seattlejester]

^Don't forget a trans as well lol.

 

I think mine was along the lines of:

 

2jz-ge - $500

Rear sump oil pan - $3-700 (I traded for mine front sump for rear sump)

Treadstone manifold - $450 (makafox gave me a really good deal though so I didn't nearly pay as much)

2mm Cometic head gasket

ARP head studs

ARP flywheel bolts

1jz flywheel

1jz bell housing

R154 stage 2.5 clutch

PS/AC delete kit

2jz rear sump dip stick and tube

Genuine toyota cam seal, front and rear main seal, valve cover gasket

Thermostat

Water pump

- $1800? It was one really big order

Head rebuild - $800 (ferrera valve seals, high boost capable valve angle job and seat grinding, shims to match)

Borg warner S257 SX-E with .7AR hot side in T4 - $800 (might have been more can't remember)

Precision 39mm waste gate - $180

Front facing intake manifold - $250-300 (modified eBay manifold)

 

R154 - $800-1000 (already had)

R154 to datsun drive shaft - $300 (already had)

Megasquirt - $450 (already had)

440cc injectors - $100 (already had)

BOV - $50-100 (already had)

Fuel cell, fuel pump, AN fittings, RR FPR and lines - $500 (already had)

 

If you don don't factor in the stuff I already had I think I'm probably close to the 5k mark as well. If I stepped down to a W58 I could have probably saved over a grand. If I stepped up to a CD009 I would have probably been down another 2-3k.

Edited August 12, 2017 by seattlejester

[joa_taste]

Aisin Ar5's, Saturn Sky transmission, are pretty cheap or cheap(er) alternative to the r154. Just need to change out bellhousings with a xjz one.

[makaofox]

SeatleJester- I didnt want to bog him down lol. Those were the absolute necessities/ differences for the GE to be a solid platform. 

 

I personally enjoy the 350z trans its really smooth and comfortable and super easy to find at junk yards.

[seattlejester]

Fair enough, there is a fine line between overloading and under loading lol.

 

I am definitely on the fence with the CD009. I'd like to swap to it, but 3k to swap seems like a lot granted that includes a twin disk in the price.

[Zetsaz]

SeatleJester- I didnt want to bog him down lol. Those were the absolute necessities/ differences for the GE to be a solid platform. 

 

I personally enjoy the 350z trans its really smooth and comfortable and super easy to find at junk yards.

 

My indecision with the CD009 (or the CD00A, or whatever the stamping is on the transmission in my G37S is) is the final gear ratios. For a lot of people it honestly won't matter, but I'm building my car 90% as a fun street car and I don't plan on towing it to shows or events down the road. More of a grand touring car than anything else I guess. The nissan 6 speeds have a really short 6th. It's really peppy, especially in my G37, but even hyper-miling on my way to Utah I've never gotten more than 23-ish mpg which is kinda sad considering the LS mated to a T56 can get you close to 30 in heavier cars.

 

That being said, it would still depend a bit on what your rear end ratio is, and what your use of the car will be. 

[Geno750]

If you're using the R200 from a 280Z the ratio is the same as the 350Z. Now that you can just run an adapter plate and J1/J2 auto bell housing on the CD009 it's definitely the way forward instead of the R154.

[makaofox]

Fair enough, there is a fine line between overloading and under loading lol.

 

I am definitely on the fence with the CD009. I'd like to swap to it, but 3k to swap seems like a lot granted that includes a twin disk in the price.

 

 

My indecision with the CD009 (or the CD00A, or whatever the stamping is on the transmission in my G37S is) is the final gear ratios. For a lot of people it honestly won't matter, but I'm building my car 90% as a fun street car and I don't plan on towing it to shows or events down the road. More of a grand touring car than anything else I guess. The nissan 6 speeds have a really short 6th. It's really peppy, especially in my G37, but even hyper-miling on my way to Utah I've never gotten more than 23-ish mpg which is kinda sad considering the LS mated to a T56 can get you close to 30 in heavier cars.

 

That being said, it would still depend a bit on what your rear end ratio is, and what your use of the car will be. 

The CD009 is a great trans. It came on a car for 15 years so parts will be of no short coming. I got it at a junk yard for $600, brand new from nissan is $1800. The Getreg is 3-7k, not an option for 99% of us. Yes $3k is alot for all of us but the parts that wear out can be easily and cheaply replaced luckily. So if you burn up a flywheel just need the plates replaced with the bolts and done. Clutch isnt "custom" like they make it seem. Im not aware of which models they mix and match but im sure it can be attainable when your clutch goes.

 

I have R200 with 354 gears im in 4th most of the time 5th brings the rpm lower but reasonable around 2k. I have yet to go into 6th at all in over 200 miles. So who knows the mileage ill get from it. I do however want to upgrade to 3.7 gears but I feel the power band would be too snappy and 1st will be completely useless even for taking off. I can already start in 2nd no bogging at all lol. 

 

[Geno750]

The other option is T56/TR6060 if you're running a rear end with a taller (4.1 or greater) gear. The cost is about equal to the CD009.

 

[M_Dragan]

Holy moly! Thanks so much for all the 2J knowledge/wisdom guys, I didn't expect so many replies! Not time to hunt down a 2J

[oatmilk]

I would go with a JDM 2jzgte vvti motor that includes the non-mobilzer ecu and oe jdm maff with a complete uncut engine harness.  I would do a timing belt kit on it, change the valve stem seals, valve cover gaskets, rear sump oil pan conversion.  Get the Driftmotion kit that allows you to remove the A/C and P/S.  Make or buy your own motor mounts and tranny mounts.  Get a 7MGTE starter

 

FYI: Trans wise you can get brand new R-154's here:https://www.driftmotion.com/. Cheaper Toyota option would be a W58 instead of a R154 or look all the other options mentioned in previous posts  Get whatever 1jz clutch kit of your choosing.  Custom driveshaft.  

 

Save money where you can by buying the parts below used if available.

 

Just my $0.02

 

Parts list:

2jzgte vvti engine (Complete)-  http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOYOTA-JDM-2JZGTE-ARISTO-SUPRA-TWIN-TURBO-MOTOR-VVTI-ENGINE-AT-TRANS-ECU-CHIP-/152658829321?hash=item238b2ce009:g:YVMAAOSw7cVZjPGh&vxp=mtr

 

New R-154 5spd transmission - www.driftmotion.com/

 

Rear sump kit - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lexus-SC300-Toyota-Supra-OEM-Rear-Sump-Oil-Pan-Kit-Hardware-Dipstick-1jz-2jz-/332333215813?hash=item4d609a7045:g:GyUAAOSwAYJZhgvT&vxp=mtr

 

240z 2jzgte swap kit - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Transmission-Mounts-Swap-Kit-For-Nissan-Datsun-S30-240Z-260Z-280Z-2JZ-GTE-/331430355287?hash=item4d2ac9e157:g:cLcAAOSwMpZUoiCh&vxp=mtr

 

Timing Belt Kit - http://www.ebay.com/itm/93-98-Toyota-Supra-Turbo-3-0L-Timing-Belt-AISIN-Water-Pump-Tensioner-Kit-2JZGTE-/151787026615?epid=12002633641&hash=item23573638b7:g:pg0AAOSwd0BV1hiJ&vxp=mtr

 

2jzgte gasket/seal kit - http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Toyota-full-gasket-kit-for-2JZ-GTE-2JZGTE-engines-JZA80-JZS161-04111-46056-/282365877095?epid=658943624&hash=item41be515b67:g:4YcAAOSwnKFYRfHw&vxp=mtr

 

Gates racing timing belt (Optional) - http://www.ebay.com/itm/GATES-93-98-Toyota-Supra-2JZGE-3-0L-L6-2JZGTE-Blue-Racing-Timing-Belt-RB-ea-/291153431758?hash=item43ca18ccce:g:ie0AAOxy7nNTV0bN&vxp=mtr

 

1jzgte clutch kit - http://www.ebay.com/itm/QSC-Stage-3-Clutch-Kit-Race-Flywheel-Supra-Soarer-SC300-1JZGTE-2JZGTE-R154-Swap-/282043672100?hash=item41ab1ce624:g:tWwAAOSwpRRWpqoI&vxp=mtr

 

A/C & P/S delete kit (Optional) - http://www.driftmotion.com/product-p/dm2082.htm

 

Upgraded Oil pump (Optional) - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Titan-Motorsports-Modified-Oil-Pump-Toyota-Supra-2JZ-2JZ-GTE-MKIV-1993-98-/122083020388?epid=531625707&hash=item1c6cb70e64:g:pbsAAOSwMtxXrpqj&vxp=mtr

 

Starter motor - http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-1991-Toyota-Supra-Turbo-7MGTE-Starter-Manual-Turbo-Transmission-28100-45050-/112498862774?hash=item1a31746ab6:g:g0wAAOSwcj5ZUyDG&vxp=mtr

 

Radiator - http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Row-Champion-Radiator-For-1970-1975-Datsun-Nissan-240z-260z-With-Shroud-Fans-/192081821525?epid=1017767761&hash=item2cb8f7ff55:g:OR8AAOSw9N1Vv4tx&vxp=mtr

 

Intercooler kit - http://www.ebay.com/itm/CXRacing-Bolt-on-FM-Intercooler-kit-For-Nissan-RB20-RB25-RB25DET-240Z-260Z-280Z-/331124936642?hash=item4d18958fc2:g:DtsAAMXQzH9SGBmO&vxp=mtr

Edited August 14, 2017 by oatmilk

[oatmilk]

By the way im in west la so not to to far away if u ever want to see mine.

[Geno750]

Just a heads up on the drift motion ac/ps delete kit, you'll likely want to get a belt one size shorter. Here's my motor with the belt the kit comes with and you can see the tensioner is almost maxed out. In fact it's on the mark that indicates a belt replacement is required.