MerloZ Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Hey everyone last year i noticed my harmonic balncer got loose so i took it off and put a spare one on and torqued it up with a new keyway. Problem solved right? Wrong. For the past few months ive been smelling oil and i couldnt find it anywhere. Then just a week a go i was driving and parked the car got out and noticed oil smoke out the engien bay. Turns our this harmonic balancer also got loose and actually broke off lucky it didnt hit something. I have not checked but i hope the leyway slot in the crank is ok. I plan to get another balancer and keyway but does anyone else have this issue. I will use loctite on the bolt this time but what is the torque spec cuz whatever the spec ive been using is obviously too little for my l28et i think it was around 130 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 They are known to fail. Just age I guess. If you find a stock one you can have it rebuilt for $100 or so by damper doctor. Otherwise BHJ or ATI is your best bet, people have had issued with the MSA powerforce ones. But maybe that is fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerloZ Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 46 minutes ago, turbogrill said: They are known to fail. Just age I guess. If you find a stock one you can have it rebuilt for $100 or so by damper doctor. Otherwise BHJ or ATI is your best bet, people have had issued with the MSA powerforce ones. But maybe that is fixed I dont know if you would call this failing. I mean they r just coming off as if i never even torqued them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 3 hours ago, MerloZ said: will use loctite on the bolt this time but what is the torque spec cuz whatever the spec ive been using is obviously too little for my l28et i think it was around 130 You need to do more study on the dampers, bolts and washers. It's not just Loctite and torque. The length of the bolt has to fit the thickness of the damper and the washer underneath and the washer's seat has to be right for the damper. Sounds like you have a mismatched set. theistuation is more comlicated than u ar realizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 2 hours ago, MerloZ said: I dont know if you would call this failing. I mean they r just coming off as if i never even torqued them I thought the broke off ment that the runner broke off why do you need a new valancer then if it didnt break? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHoob2004 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, turbogrill said: I thought the broke off ment that the runner broke off why do you need a new valancer then if it didnt break? I think they're saying that the entire balancer and bolt are missing because the bolt backed out and the whole thing fell off and ran away down the road somewhere. I agree with newzed that it's probably an issue with the bolt and washer choice. The washer is really thick and rather unusual, and likely has a lot to do with proper bolt stretch. Also I think the threads are supposed to be clean and dry, but double check on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Agree with NewZed, probably doesn't have the right combination of bolt and washer for the damper. You might be bottoming the bolt end or shoulder before clamping the damper. Oh yeah and it's a damper pulley not a harmonic balancer, L6's are internally balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 11 hours ago, MerloZ said: Hey everyone last year i noticed my harmonic balncer got loose so i took it off and put a spare one on and torqued it up with a new keyway. Problem solved right? Wrong. For the past few months ive been smelling oil and i couldnt find it anywhere. Then just a week a go i was driving and parked the car got out and noticed oil smoke out the engien bay. Turns our this harmonic balancer also got loose and actually broke off lucky it didnt hit something. I have not checked but i hope the leyway slot in the crank is ok. I plan to get another balancer and keyway but does anyone else have this issue. I will use loctite on the bolt this time but what is the torque spec cuz whatever the spec ive been using is obviously too little for my l28et i think it was around 130 Just circling back. Lots of wrong here. "noticed balancer was loose so put a spare on". It's like you got super-lucky but didn't heed the warnings. You said the balancer "broke off". Is there a piece left? Or did it fall off and you were actually running with no belts? Should have at least since the charge light come on, besides the overheating. Not clear how bad this really was. Guessing that a piece broke off, allowing oil to leak past the seal, but the damper and pulley were intact, and the bolt was still in place. A sign that the bolt was not putting force on the damper hub. Probably did a bunch of damage. You might not even be able to get another damper on. They're typically set as light interference fits. Try to fit the old damper and see. If it won't fit, a new one probably won't either. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerloZ Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 The old damper was loose as it the keyway slot got worn. Swapped it with another l28et one i had along with the thick washer but no lock washer as when i got this motor it seemed untouched and thats how the balancer was held on. I put the spare on exactly how i had the other one on and torqued it dry. I was driving across town on a very cold morning so no over heating as i was moving right along not just sitting there. Noticed my afr gauge started reading 7.5 and thought it was odd. Probably cause the car was running low on voltage as the alternator was not charging. Which i didnt notice or even care to look at. Parked it noticed blue haze cominf from hood. And the fan wasnt spinning. The pulley along with bolt and washer were hanging in the belt.. amazing. I didnt loose anything but the key. But the pulley chipped a big chuck off of the collar that goes over the crank and inside the seal. So im thinking it needs a lock washer possibly and that my bolt never actually tightened on the balancer it was just bottoming out? But im oulling y motor this week ill measure everything make sure its right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHoob2004 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Sounds like you had the right setup, so I'm not sure why you'd have these problems. What was your tightening torque? FSM specifies 87-116 lb-ft, I assume dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 16 hours ago, MerloZ said: The old damper was loose as it the keyway slot got worn. Swapped it with another l28et one i had along with the thick washer but no lock washer as when i got this motor it seemed untouched and thats how the balancer was held on. So im thinking it needs a lock washer possibly and that my bolt never actually tightened on the balancer it was just bottoming out? But im oulling y motor this week ill measure everything make sure its right. There was a recent thread about damper bolts and red loctite that has some good facts in it. There's no lock washer. The keyway got worn because the damper was loose, not vice-versa. The key isn't meant to hold the damper. It's for locating it's rotational position. The fact that your first damper was loose is a sign that something's wrong, either damaged crank snout or the wrong parts So when you replaced one damper with another you just kept the same damage and/or the same wrong parts. Just with a different damper. It's a simple looking part with a lot of complex engineering behind it. You need to find the directions and follow them exactly. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerloZ Posted November 9, 2018 Author Share Posted November 9, 2018 Pulled my motor after work today. The crank key slot is slightly hammered open but i should be able to do something about that. Maybe just for everyones information. Obviously it makes total sense now that i realise what was going on. But ive had to change my ignition timing a few times in megasquirt by about 20 degrees each time. Could not even comprehend why or how. But when the pulley slides forward so can the timing gear on the crank thus rotating the dizzy shaft. Lol. Fml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerloZ Posted November 14, 2018 Author Share Posted November 14, 2018 Good news new keyway fits in crank without any wobble . Got a new bolt and wasger from z car depot and the bolt is the same one and threads all the way into the crank. When its all installed should have 3/4 of an inch of thread in the crank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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