Coilovers and struts. $1,000 budget

[AydinZ71]

Hi All!

 

I just disassembled my rear suspension. Made myself a spindle removal tool, and now the rear control arms and strut housing are removed from the vehicle. Everything was dropped off at the sandblaster today. I'm looking for your opinion on available coilovers and struts. I have the ability to weld, and have been doing quite a bit recently (rust repair).

 

I am eyeing the T3 weld-in coilover ends for ~$500. Any thoughts?

Struts...im lost. The last time I bought struts for a Z, tokico was still making the 5-way ajustables. No idea what is on the market now.

 

My budget is around $1,000, and this is for an SCCA group EP race car. I know there are a lot of other expensive options out there, but I have to reserve cash for other improvements. The car already has front and rear sway bars, custom strut supports, and a full racing cage. 

 

I know there are a lot of discussions on the topic, but I'm specifically looking for the best option given the budget. I really appreciate your feedback!

 

 

[Ben280]

Koni 8610 or 8611 are the only way to go if you are doing strut inserts. 

 

The weld on kit is a solid deal, I'd pair that with the correct length 8610 and be set for a long time. 

[AydinZ71]

8 hours ago, Ben280 said:

Koni 8610 or 8611 are the only way to go if you are doing strut inserts. 

 

The weld on kit is a solid deal, I'd pair that with the correct length 8610 and be set for a long time. 

thanks Ben! Any recommendations on a vendor? MSA looks a bit over-priced. I guess I can check EBay.

 

When did they stop making the tokiko Illuminas? I’m disappointed 😕 I really liked those! 

[AydinZ71]

9 hours ago, Ben280 said:

Koni 8610 or 8611 are the only way to go if you are doing strut inserts. 

 

The weld on kit is a solid deal, I'd pair that with the correct length 8610 and be set for a long time. 

question: the Koni part number you provided is different than what Koni and MSA have listed for the 240z. Is there a big difference? 

[Ben280]

Summit Racing, or I've used ECS/Amazon for those Konis. There are 4 or 5 different lengths of the Koni 8610/8611 (they aren't vehicle specific) so you can measure what length you want and go from there! https://performanceshock.com/KONI_86_series_race.pdf Quick guide to the different part numbers available for these!

 

The 8610 is a single adjustable strut, with rebound adjustment on the top of the housing. The 8611 adds compression adjustment with a second adjuster at the bottom of the housing. the 8610 is probably the right call for you. They are a little more expensive, but I think it's worth it for the performance!

[AydinZ71]

1 hour ago, Ben280 said:

Summit Racing, or I've used ECS/Amazon for those Konis. There are 4 or 5 different lengths of the Koni 8610/8611 (they aren't vehicle specific) so you can measure what length you want and go from there! https://performanceshock.com/KONI_86_series_race.pdf Quick guide to the different part numbers available for these!

 

The 8610 is a single adjustable strut, with rebound adjustment on the top of the housing. The 8611 adds compression adjustment with a second adjuster at the bottom of the housing. the 8610 is probably the right call for you. They are a little more expensive, but I think it's worth it for the performance!

sweet!! Any recommendations on length when considering the T3 coilovers? I’m going to maintain at least 4” clearance under the car. I could measure myself but my strut assemblies are out for sandblasting and I’m a total NOOB with suspension. 

 

what are your thoughts on the MSA-KONI collaboration struts? No worries if you have no experience with them.

 

 

[zbloke]

I use the 8610-1437's in my car - perfect in my opinion 

 

If you haven't already checked out the FAQ section here I recommend you do so, there is a lot of great info in there relating to strut insert installation, getting your desired ride height and sufficient damper travel in both compression and extension

[AydinZ71]

8 hours ago, zbloke said:

I use the 8610-1437's in my car - perfect in my opinion 

 

If you haven't already checked out the FAQ section here I recommend you do so, there is a lot of great info in there relating to strut insert installation, getting your desired ride height and sufficient damper travel in both compression and extension

sweet! Thank you! I will do so  

[jhm]

Springs and shocks constitute the major expense in switching to coilovers (camber plates, too....if you're replacing the stock strut isolators with aftermarket camber plates.)  If you're intent on purchasing a coilover "kit", I would press the vendor for details on those component -- what make and model of each?  I've seen plenty of kits that cheap out on one or more of the key components, to keep overall kit price down.  But you pay for it in lost performance.

 

If you don't mind doing the work to section your struts, you can usually piece together your own coilovers for less than what you would pay for a complete kit of the same quality.  This also allows you to select exactly what pieces you want vs what some vendor has pieced together.  One feature that's nice on some of the kits (e.g. BC Coilovers) is the ability to adjust ride height without compromising bump & droop travel.  You could incorporate this into your design if you're building your own coilovers; it just takes more fab work and some additional hardware expense.

 

For shocks, I've had good luck with Bilsteins but switched to Koni yellows last year that @Ben280 described (I went with single adjustable, mainly for budget reasons....got a killer deal from ECS Tuning.)  Tokicos are fine, but not for higher spring rates; and may not meet your needs for EP class.  You can still find them used sometimes on eBay and various forums.   For springs, I'm partial to QA1, Swift and HyperCo; but there are many fine spring manufacturers out there and everyone has their own preference.  Camber plates:  I like DP racing and Ground Control...but plenty of other good options to choose from here as well. 

 

I run XP and am not familiar with EP requirements; so be sure to thoroughly research what you can and can't do classing-wise, if you haven't already done so.  Good luck with it!

[Ben280]

@zbloke's recomendations for lengths are solid. Remember you can always shim up the strut if you need to, but you can't make the strut shorter!

 

I haven't used the MSA Koni, but I suspect that it's a custom length version of the koni sport, which isn't nearly as nice a strut as the 8610 (generally referred to as the Koni Race). As a general rule for my car, and parts purchasing, I tend to shy away from parts that are "exclusive" or don't have a lot of data to go with them. I'm sure Koni would give you the details about them if you wanted, they just can't sell them. 

 

@jhm makes a really good point about rules. Not that you are planning to run EP for road racing, but might be good to make sure that going with this style of suspension won't disqualify the car!

[AydinZ71]

Here are the group EP rules: It seems to me coilovers would not be permissible for EP, however ajustable struts and racing springs using the stock perches seems to be acceptable. Do you guys read the same? Thanks for making me look! I'm glad I didn't cook my goose. 

 

Springs and Shock Absorbers
1. Any springs or torsion bars can be used, provided the quantity and type of these items remains
as stock. Springs and torsion bars must be installed in the stock location using the stock
system of attachment. The use of tender springs is permitted, provided the tender springs are
completely compressed when the car is at static ride height. Static ride height will be determined
with the driver seated in the normal driving position.
2. Shock absorbers are unrestricted, provided the quantity and type (i.e. tube, lever) of these
items remains as fitted stock. The manner of attachment of the shock absorber is unrestricted
and the upper attachment point may be raised along the axis of the stock shock. The mounting
of the remote reservoir of a remote reservoir shock absorber is unrestricted. No shock absorber
can be capable of adjustment by the driver while the car is in motion, or can be electronically
controlled.

[AydinZ71]

I am going to go with the Koni 8610 1437RACE. Looks like Amazon is the cheapest at the moment at $217

 

Thanks again for all your help! If you agree with my assessment for EP, any springs yall suggest?

Edited November 8, 2020 by AydinZ71

[jhm]

The Tokico reds were my favorite stock spring replacement, but they are NLA unless you find a set used.  Eibach also makes a "performance replacement spring", but I would avoid a progressive spring if that's all they offer for your car.  If budget is a major factor (as it is for most of us!), take a look at the Vogtland springs on eBay....they seem to be a decent option as a shorter/stiffer spring.  Even cheaper....years ago, people were using stock Chevy Chevette springs....google search for those discussions here on HybridZ.  The cheapest option is to cut the stock springs; which a lot of folks have tried with varying degrees of success. 

 

Take a look at the tracks and venues that you plan to run at before making final decision.  A spring that works well for a flat, smooth auto-x pad might be a terrible choice for a rough road course with heavy curbing and elevation changes.

[AydinZ71]

13 hours ago, jhm said:

The Tokico reds were my favorite stock spring replacement, but they are NLA unless you find a set used.  Eibach also makes a "performance replacement spring", but I would avoid a progressive spring if that's all they offer for your car.  If budget is a major factor (as it is for most of us!), take a look at the Vogtland springs on eBay....they seem to be a decent option as a shorter/stiffer spring.  Even cheaper....years ago, people were using stock Chevy Chevette springs....google search for those discussions here on HybridZ.  The cheapest option is to cut the stock springs; which a lot of folks have tried with varying degrees of success. 

 

Take a look at the tracks and venues that you plan to run at before making final decision.  A spring that works well for a flat, smooth auto-x pad might be a terrible choice for a rough road course with heavy curbing and elevation changes.

 

yeah the springs on the car now are stock

 cut. Guy before me did it,, and the car often scrapes at the exhaust while driving. Definitely need stiffer springs.
 

arizona Z used to sell them in different spring rates but I don’t see them available on his website anymore  

 

I wish I could see the spring rates for Vogel. 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by AydinZ71

[AydinZ71]

On 11/8/2020 at 8:39 AM, jhm said:

The Tokico reds were my favorite stock spring replacement, but they are NLA unless you find a set used.  Eibach also makes a "performance replacement spring", but I would avoid a progressive spring if that's all they offer for your car.  If budget is a major factor (as it is for most of us!), take a look at the Vogtland springs on eBay....they seem to be a decent option as a shorter/stiffer spring.  Even cheaper....years ago, people were using stock Chevy Chevette springs....google search for those discussions here on HybridZ.  The cheapest option is to cut the stock springs; which a lot of folks have tried with varying degrees of success. 

 

Take a look at the tracks and venues that you plan to run at before making final decision.  A spring that works well for a flat, smooth auto-x pad might be a terrible choice for a rough road course with heavy curbing and elevation changes.

to your point about tracks, the ones I am looking at all have banked turns, but otherwise not rough at all. I don’t see any flat ones I’m interested in. I think the main goal for my shock/spring setups is to limit excessive travel and body movement  between turns at moderate speed (30-40mph). My swaybars seem to be doing a good job managing “roll”.

 

Also, I really appreciate your help! This website has been a huge help for me. I’m not sure if Group “EP” would fall under “hybrids” since it’s a stock performance group, but y’all are definitely a lot more knowledgeable and in the same category of technical interest/scrutiny as myself. 
 

Definitely getting the Koni 8610’s, so now I just need to investigate a racing spring rate. I’m anxious to buy something without knowing it will work well at the higher dampening rates (need something stiff). I have run the stiff setting on tokico’s in the past with softer springs, and you can definitely feel the over-dampening. It shouldn’t feel like the shock is doing all the work jilting the car up and down. 
 

lastly, any thoughts on the shock isolators? Stick with stock, or is there something better on the market?